• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:13
CEST 07:13
KST 14:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris20Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD Joined effort New season has just come in ladder BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group C BWCL Season 63 Announcement [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [ASL20] Ro24 Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The year 2050 Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2639 users

Math Puzzle [num 19]

Blogs > evanthebouncy!
Post a Reply
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 09:49:33
April 12 2011 09:43 GMT
#1
Friends it's been a while!! Here goes!

==THE PROBLEM==
There is a room with n lightbulbs, n is a power of 2, i.e. n = 2^k. These n lightbulbs are arranged in a straight line.

You and your friend Bob are allowed to discuss a strategy, after the discussion, you and bob will be seperated.

You will receive a piece of paper, and on that piece of paper, there will be a number, which is selected from {1,2,...,n}.

You will then enter a room of the lightbulbs. The initial configurations of the lightbulbs are arbitrary, i.e. some might be on, some might be off. you must flip one and only one light switch and then exit the room.

Bob will then enter the room, and depending on what he sees, he will be able to answer correctly what was the number you were given on that piece of paper.

Describe the strategy.



Again, put answers in spoilers, put discussion NOT in spoilers, have fun. Generate some discussions, etc

Oh yeah it's not a trick question where bob will feel the temperature or anything like that...


mini-sub-problems:
Can you do it for n = 2?
Can you do it for n = 4?
Solving specialized instances of this problem is quite rewarding as well

QnA(hopefully not too many T_T)
On April 12 2011 18:46 MisterD wrote:
does arbitrary configuration mean, they are arranged randomly on the wall, or that they are randomly switched on and off before you enter?

The latter, they are in a straight line and the on/off is arbitrary.

*****
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
MisterD
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1338 Posts
April 12 2011 09:46 GMT
#2
does arbitrary configuration mean, they are arranged randomly on the wall, or that they are randomly switched on and off before you enter?
Gold isn't everything in life... you need wood, too!
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
April 12 2011 09:53 GMT
#3
I believe this problem is very similar to one that I posted a couple years back in my blog. I will refrain from participating in this one, as it will be interesting to see how people approach this problem.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
April 12 2011 10:30 GMT
#4
Solution for n=2

+ Show Spoiler +

o = on
x = off
Bold is flip
j = number on paper

Tell Bob:
xx = j=1
ox = j=2
xo = j=1
oo = j=2

Starting possibilities:
j=1
xx
ox
xo
oo

j=2
xx
ox
xo
oo

I know that this is terribly done, but it 5:30 in the morning and I've been up all night lol.

My first suggestion was to break bulb #j, but apparently thats cheating :Þ
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
incnone
Profile Joined July 2009
17 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 11:17:19
April 12 2011 11:00 GMT
#5
Good to see you back -- you always post good puzzles.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
April 12 2011 11:02 GMT
#6
Solution for n=4
+ Show Spoiler +

j is number you are told

If single light on or off, n=j
If all same: x=1
If 2 same: position of second of type in col.1

Proof:
Start__ j=1 _ j=2 __ j=3 _ j=4
xxxx | oxxx xoxx xxox xxxo
oxxx | xxxx ooxx oxox oxxo
xoxx | xxxx ooxx xoxo xoox
xxox | xxxx xxoo oxox xoox
xxxo | xxxx xxoo xoxo oxxo
ooxx | oxxx xoxx ooxo ooox
xoox | xooo xoxx xxox ooox
xxoo | xooo oxoo xxox xxxo
ooox | oooo ooxx oxox xoox
xooo | oooo xxoo xoxo xoox
oooo | xooo oxoo ooxo ooox
oxoo | oooo xxoo oxox oxxo
ooxo | oooo ooxx xoxo oxxo
ooox | oooo ooxx oxox xoox
oxxo | oxxx oxoo ooxo xxxo
ooxx | oxxx xoxx ooxo ooox
oxxx | xxxx ooxx oxox oxxo



again, i'm kind of tired so I can't think of the full proof for n=n lol. Perhaps tomorrow I will
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
MasterOfChaos
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Germany2896 Posts
April 12 2011 11:14 GMT
#7
+ Show Spoiler +
Call the number of the piece of paper x
I give each lightbulb a unique name from 0 to n-1.
Then I calculate m=binary xor of the names of all light bulbs which are on.
now I calculate s=m xor (x-1) and switch the bulb with that name.

Bob calculates m'=binary xor of the names of all light bulbs which are on and then adds 1 to obtain x.

Originally I tried a similar scheme with addition modulo n, but that didn't work out because I needed switching on->off and off->on have the same effect on m. The xor scheme only works on powers of two, but the question kindly restricted it to that.
LiquipediaOne eye to kill. Two eyes to live.
Seth_
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Belgium184 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 15:10:52
April 12 2011 14:09 GMT
#8
n=2 solution (probably the same as iGrok but it's explained better)
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm counting from 0..n-1 since I'm a computer science student with off=0, on=1.

If the number is 0, you turn the first light off (if it's already off, just flip the second light)
If the number is 1, you turn the first light on (if it's already on, just flip the second light)
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 14:36:01
April 12 2011 14:34 GMT
#9
On April 12 2011 23:09 Seth_ wrote:
btw There's no solution for n=1 although it's a power of 2. You probably mean 2^k for k>0

n=2 solution (probably the same as iGrok but it's explained better)
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm counting from 0..n-1 since I'm a computer science student with off=0, on=1.

If the number is 0, you turn the first light off (if it's already off, just flip the second light)
If the number is 1, you turn the first light on (if it's already on, just flip the second light)

EDIT: I suppose this works. I dislike it though :p
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
MasterOfChaos
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Germany2896 Posts
April 12 2011 14:37 GMT
#10
On April 12 2011 23:09 Seth_ wrote:
btw There's no solution for n=1 although it's a power of 2. You probably mean 2^k for k>0

The solution is trivial for n=1. The number on the piece of paper is always "1", so bob just needs to say "1" and he is done.
LiquipediaOne eye to kill. Two eyes to live.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
April 12 2011 16:12 GMT
#11
theres also no solution for non-integer k :p
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 19:08:15
April 12 2011 17:54 GMT
#12
+ Show Spoiler +
Hamming Code

Suppose n = 8 and the following is our random on/off (red/black) sequence:

[image loading]

By applying Hamming Code, we can represent every number in the range of 1 to 8 by making use of the first, second and fourth lightbulbs as parity checkers:

[image loading]

Not long ago, a TL user posted a question that could be resolved using Hamming Code as well. Is this a new trend or something?
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
April 12 2011 20:28 GMT
#13
On April 13 2011 02:54 EsX_Raptor wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Hamming Code

Suppose n = 8 and the following is our random on/off (red/black) sequence:

[image loading]

By applying Hamming Code, we can represent every number in the range of 1 to 8 by making use of the first, second and fourth lightbulbs as parity checkers:

[image loading]

Not long ago, a TL user posted a question that could be resolved using Hamming Code as well. Is this a new trend or something?


I actually don't know... can you link me? :p
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 20:51:39
April 12 2011 20:50 GMT
#14
Here's one thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=206477

I also made a pretty drawing in there explaining in more detail how the...

+ Show Spoiler +
... Hamming Code...

... works.

^^
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
April 12 2011 20:56 GMT
#15
On April 13 2011 05:50 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Here's one thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=206477

I also made a pretty drawing in there explaining in more detail how the...

+ Show Spoiler +
... Hamming Code...

... works.

^^


Ah but that one is exactly the same as 1000 jars of millk 1 poisoned or what not and you have 10 slaves etc. I don't think you need hamming code to do that one since I did it w/o any knowledge of it. However I was having lots of trouble doing this one w/o hamming code. Maybe the two are really similar, it's just the process is reversed: One is you have something wrong, how to detect it, one is if you detect, what is wrong.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
April 12 2011 21:03 GMT
#16
On April 13 2011 05:56 evanthebouncy! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 05:50 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Here's one thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=206477

I also made a pretty drawing in there explaining in more detail how the...

+ Show Spoiler +
... Hamming Code...

... works.

^^


Ah but that one is exactly the same as 1000 jars of millk 1 poisoned or what not and you have 10 slaves etc. I don't think you need hamming code to do that one since I did it w/o any knowledge of it. However I was having lots of trouble doing this one w/o hamming code. Maybe the two are really similar, it's just the process is reversed: One is you have something wrong, how to detect it, one is if you detect, what is wrong.

I agree.

Also, you know there are many ways to kill the tiger. What I like the most is seeing how users with different professions/backgrounds/interests tackle the same problem in their own way. ^^
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
April 13 2011 02:10 GMT
#17
On April 13 2011 06:03 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 05:56 evanthebouncy! wrote:
On April 13 2011 05:50 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Here's one thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=206477

I also made a pretty drawing in there explaining in more detail how the...

+ Show Spoiler +
... Hamming Code...

... works.

^^


Ah but that one is exactly the same as 1000 jars of millk 1 poisoned or what not and you have 10 slaves etc. I don't think you need hamming code to do that one since I did it w/o any knowledge of it. However I was having lots of trouble doing this one w/o hamming code. Maybe the two are really similar, it's just the process is reversed: One is you have something wrong, how to detect it, one is if you detect, what is wrong.

I agree.

Also, you know there are many ways to kill the tiger. What I like the most is seeing how users with different professions/backgrounds/interests tackle the same problem in their own way. ^^


mind if I ask what is your background?
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 143
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 8624
Larva 408
PianO 284
ggaemo 87
Icarus 9
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm151
League of Legends
JimRising 0
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1257
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor134
Other Games
summit1g9555
WinterStarcraft771
singsing540
ViBE173
kaitlyn18
ROOTCatZ9
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick838
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH306
• davetesta19
• Freeedom3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1012
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4h 47m
SC Evo League
6h 47m
Chat StarLeague
10h 47m
Razz vs Julia
StRyKeR vs ZZZero
Semih vs TBD
Replay Cast
18h 47m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 4h
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
1d 5h
RotterdaM Event
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Cosmonarchy
5 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
6 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSLAN 3
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.