|
Warning: There are a pair of replays involving bronze level Terran play. Expect to see high amounts of unused minerals. I'm not responsible for you poking your own eyes out :D
A couple of days ago, I started this little blog asking for friends and contacts, and you've done a great job. I had responses from Bronze all the way to Diamond, so thanks a lot! And feel free to poke me any time, I'm generally happy to play a game.
So, I've already said I decided to take season 2 as a chance to play seriously. Conveniently, this huge thread about improving mechanics (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343) was recently posted. And while much of it is a little beyond me at this stage, it stood out that I should really only be learning one build for now, so I spend more time learning to play than anything else.
I've opted to go 2rax FE, as it teaches me to defend vs P and T, and attack vs Z. Not to mention, nobody non-Z ever fast expands in Bronze, even on Tal'darim altar. So if I hold off any early pushes, it's usually easy to outmacro the opposition, no matter how bad I am. Also, I figure it'd be good to be in the habit of expanding early, and maintaining a larger amount of buildings and resources - if I learned by 3rax, I fear I'd still be pretty clueless when I reach Diamond.
This is doing really well, thankfully. Having a much higher success rate than before, but my rating didn't seem to climb much higher (chances are, It's just the volume of games I play). This is making me wonder, though - what are the actually differences in skill level, between the leagues below diamond?
Well, one thing I've noticed in every game I've played is that I need to be more agressive. In this game (warning: unbelievably terrible macro, let alone micro) I could have probably siezed an early win, instead of misjudging the strength of some queens, and sitting back. It would also have helped if I'd remembered that I couldn't immediately afford siege tech after getting the lab, but that's something that's easier to iron out.
-- Question 1: Muta/Baneling is terrifying at these levels. What are the best habits to get into when playing against it?
...but I'm in Bronze, why am I worrying so much? A large number of people I play against aren't particularly cunning. I think most games I lose are due to my own mistakes, like big mismicros, or pushing up a ramp into someone taking a really long time on a one-base build with too many units at once, and being munched on the way back.
Other games I could have won much faster by pushing back right after an opponent's attack. I suppose it's just the nerves of being attacked, or dropped on.
Most games I play end up something like this. But watching the replay made me realise how I really could have attacked much earlier. Instead, I was penned in, waiting for my opponent. So this leaves me with two more queries.
-- Question 2: When should I expect attacks by T1 rushes? Air? Tech? Assuming I get a decent scout, of course.
-- Question 3: I've been getting allergic to Starports for no reason I can work out. If I want to get in the habit of dropping a bit more, when should I used Marines, and when Hellions? I understand that Marauders are awesome for sniping tech buildings.
Anyway, I suppose I needn't worry about these things too much for now. I see people who try to do one base Thor drops (which is adorable and badass).
--
On a different note, there were a lot of pro terran streams on today. <3
Was amazing to see Jinro in a TvP which involved both players having a sizeable army in both players' bases, and using Medivacs to airlift units back behind FFs that isolated them.
 
|
nice blog i rated it bud thanksk for takeing the time and write it, ima be puting more effort in my blogs 2
|
lol its hard to say when to expect any attack to come, especially in bronze league. i'm guessing players will just arbitrarily move out when they think their army is sufficient. you're best off just working on improving the basics, macro, micro, and a basic build order. rushing to drop his base isn't going to winyou a lot of games unless you can macro while you're at it, they'll just counter and own you.
a solid build order, understanding of unit counters, and macro/micro are all you need to get well past bronze
|
as my old roomee is a #1 bronze player, i find that all you need to get out of bronze is to use hot key. Try to reduce as much clicking as possible and replace everything you do by using a hotkey. use 1A instead of 1 right click. Then, constantly build scv and you are pretty much good to go.
If you got that which is called "mechanic" down, all you need as terran to get into diamond is mass marines stim push.
There is almost no need to ladder if you are below diamond, just play with AI or join some random 1v1 obs to improve mechanics is enough.
|
Yeah to be honest I'm not sure if this stuff is necessary. Make workers, make depots, learn a build(any build, any build at all) and do it approximately correctly(or not so approximately, just know what the build IS) and you'll be out of bronze. You don't need to do anything perfectly at all and your strategy hardly matters.
|
As other people are saying write or learn a build order (doesn't even have to be optimized, you just need the confidence of having a plan that you can stick to), and practice it to the 8 minute mark over and over. Once you have it down, you'll be ready for at least gold, and all you need to do to get to masters is get more comfortable with that build and learn how to deviate from it to react to certain unit compositions.
Edit oh shit you posted questions too!
-- Question 1: Muta/Baneling is terrifying at these levels. What are the best habits to get into when playing against it?
Trust me, it'll only get worse as you play against better and better zergs. However, at your level I think going thor/marauder should do the trick, with turrets in your base to deter harass of course. Muta/bling is a really gimmicky thing to do in my opinion, and not very effective if you counter it, so just don't get flustered! Try finding a Z who will muta/bling you all day long until you are super used to it so that it doesn't psych you out in games that actually matter.
-- Question 2: When should I expect attacks by T1 rushes? Air? Tech? Assuming I get a decent scout, of course.
You answered your own question, you need a good scout. That's all there is to it! SCV's need to be constantly running around the map scouting for you, and you need to scan if you ever feel unsafe or in the dark. DON'T PLAY OFF OF CLOCK TIMINGS, BECAUSE THAT WILL GET YOU OWNED LATER ON. I absolutely hate it when I'm discussing 4gate defenses with other zergs, and they are like "well if the attack doesn't come by 6 minutes you're safe to drone because they aren't going to 4gate you." The protoss could easily have just delayed his push another 20 seconds for another warp in cycle, and then he could attack move and win because you're too damn lazy to scout. Lesson in the end, scout scout scout. Don't be bound by the clock, because it can easily deceive you. If you think a zerg isn't going to all in you, it had better be because you have an scv in his base seeing drones pop out instead of lings.
-- Question 3: I've been getting allergic to Starports for no reason I can work out. If I want to get in the habit of dropping a bit more, when should I used Marines, and when Hellions? I understand that Marauders are awesome for sniping tech buildings.
I think dropping is above your level right now, and it would be detrimental to your play to use it. Your problem right now isn't that your tactics suck, it's that your macro and confidence suck. Do what works for you, but I can assure you that microing a drop and a push and macro at the same time will be impossible for a bronze player, so just cut your losses to macro and pushing IMO. Nothing personal, I remember when I was E on iccup and I wanted to micro 2 groups of mutas like Jaedong does, and it held me back until a B told me that I was retarded and I needed to learn to breath before I could run a marathon. Passing on his wisdom to you!
|
|
|
On April 07 2011 12:42 Urnhardt wrote:
a solid build order, understanding of unit counters, and macro/micro are is all you need to get well past bronze
In my opinion your thinking about it way to much. I watched both replays and your issues (like all bronze players) are very basic.
1) Produce SCVs constantly. They need to becoming one after another until you have ~70. In both games you get to around 35-45 which is no where near enough to saturate 3 bases.
2) Dont supply block yourself, especially early. Once you expand and build a second wave of unit producing structures your will likely need to build 2 depots at a time.
3) Constantly produce units. Making reinforcements is more important than microing a battle.
I can say with 100% certainty that macro > micro. I am living proof that decent macro and garbage micro can get you to at least to diamond.
|
Well, u asked "what are the actually differences in skill level, between the leagues below diamond?" so i thought of maybe giving my share of knowledge since i belong to this group xD (plat here)
So... i have one friend in gold, another one in silver and a third one in bronze, and as far as i can see my friends skills are pretty much divided this way:
-Bronze ----> Silver : Pretty much the difference between them is that my silver buddy dont forget to build workers and supplies as much as my Bronze friend, therefore having a bigger army in the battles.
-Silver ----> Gold : My gold friend also have a better macro then the silver one, and the silver one really lacks on micro, therefore the army of my gold friend not only is bigger, but is also more cost efficient.
-Gold ----> Platinum : Here is where it gets a little trickier. Because i really think that my macro and my micro is really similar to my gold friend. But he lacks a little of decision making, therefore sometimes in the middle of a battle he may rebuild the wrong units against X army composition, sometimes he just "overdrone", sometimes he just attack at the wrong moment/position etc.
Hope i could help =]
|
On April 07 2011 13:18 jimmyjingle wrote:
beat hard AI.
Most of my bronze friends can beat the very hard AI and cant get out of bronze =/
|
On April 07 2011 13:38 LemonSC wrote:Most of my bronze friends can beat the very hard AI and cant get out of bronze =/
I was in plat before I could beat that shit, are they just abusing the AI?
|
I was top 10 bronze during this season and the problem I see the most out of bronze players are two things besides proper hotkeying and speed:
1. Learning when to expand. I never, in all 75 games I won vs. Bronze players, saw one expand whatsoever.
2. Scout before cheesing. This was by far the best thing I saw. I love playing on Tal'Darim Altar and seeing my opponent go double-gateway and sends all his units to the left, to the right then finally reaches me where I have the time to go speed roaches.
Good times! Great blog btw.
|
Listen to what NeoOmega said, he is right.
I watched your replay of Tal'darim doing a little test (that u can do yourself). Everytime you stopped making workers, i would put the game on Normal speed and measure (with a stopwatch) how much time u didnt build any worker.
At the 8:00 minute mark, you got 1:50 minutes in total without building workers, that is 6 more scvs you could had.
So, at the 8:00 minute mark you had 24 workers, where you could have 32. So you only had around 75% of the number of workers you could had.
From the 8:00 to the 16:00 minute mark, you got more 5:50 minutes without building workers, that's around 20 more scvs you could have built, and im only analyzing your main base (i didnt count the time you didnt build workers with your expansion's command centers).
Of course i know you where under preassure, attacking, doing other stuff and that sometimes we can cut worker production. But that's just an small experiment i did to emphasize the value of constant worker and supply production to the economy.
Keep focusing on your macro a little bit more and you should be fine =]
|
Macro man, make a lot of units. Control them to an adequate level, you will be out of bronze in no time.
|
On April 07 2011 14:28 Pelopidas wrote:
Macro man, make a lot of units. Control them to an adequate level, you will be out of bronze in no time.
Do you realize how arbitrary that tidbit is? It's equivalent is my own bit of advice.
|
On April 07 2011 14:22 Torte de Lini wrote:
I was top 10 bronze during this season and the problem I see the most out of bronze players are two things besides proper hotkeying and speed:
1. Learning when to expand. I never, in all 75 games I won vs. Bronze players, saw one expand whatsoever.
2. Scout before cheesing. This was by far the best thing I saw. I love playing on Tal'Darim Altar and seeing my opponent go double-gateway and sends all his units to the left, to the right then finally reaches me where I have the time to go speed roaches.
Good times! Great blog btw.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Anyways, My friend is Rank 4 Bronze and he doesnt use his keyboard. let alone, know about hotkeys. My cousin saw a guy build a Twilight Council on the spot where your 2nd Nex goes (This is placement match but id assume the guy was bronze).
Honestly, all of this is new to me. I did not know people could be this bad but when you play, just think. Dont follow Build orders too hard and just macro imo. Also, Spam to get faster. Just do it. Hurt your hands when you play. I assume your apm average is about 30 but if its atleast 60, i dont think it would be too hard for you to macro. Plus, if you arent using your hotkeys, memorize them. learn the by heart. Though I admit it gets increasingly harder to just macro without micro in the later leagues, shouldnt be a problem in Bronze at all.
Skill difference is not that huge, except Gold and Silvers tend to know the game more. With experience Bronze can equal Golds and Silvers in terms of skill.
|
I feel there is more skill difference between Plat and Diamond. Platinum feels more cheesy and loose while Diamond, it gets a bit more serious, though sloppy.
|
Learn a build, make SCVs, make units, spend all your money. You're now platinum.
|
Get a solid build for each matchup (nothing unorthodox) and just practice unless you know the proper responses and criss management.
|
Honestly, the thing that really helped me get past bronze was just to never stop production. A lot of people will try to chalk it up to build orders, unit compositions, sometimes micro, etc. But really, if you just never forget to build workers and never supply block yourself, you're on the right track.
A good trick you can do is to watch some replays of your games, put on the first person view and just watch the production bar on your buildings. If you notice that you forgot to build an scv (which will most likely happen very often since you're in bronze) look and see what happened to cause you to forget to make that worker. I know the problem that a lot of people have is that they get into a battle, freak out, and totally forget to macro for like a minute. So if you just make little mental notes while watching replays, you'll start to become aware of the fact that you usually don't make scvs during big fights and the problem will eventually solve itself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
