• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:57
CET 12:57
KST 20:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation10Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BW General Discussion Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1679 users

What is wrong with my MUs?!

Blogs > Zephirdd
Post a Reply
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
April 01 2011 01:33 GMT
#1
Sup guys.

So, I just got promoted into Diamond after two months as a Platinum player. It was like, League reset -> placement match(win) -> Platinum -> 3 wins -> Diamond. Of course I felt GREAT about it, especially because these four games were ZvPx3 and a ZvT.

Then I got in the so ever dreamed Diamond league, the one which I had dreams ever since I started playing at Silver league, in the Latin American server, back in August...

...Just to see it and say WHAT THE FUCK.


I'm fine struggling to a new league, heck I almost got demoted in my transition to NA since the playstyles are so different from LA, but what is happening to me isn't struggling, it is fucking retarded.

SC2Gears replay analysis:
Zv* 39 87 19-20-0 48% 9:47:24 00:15:03 3 13.0 2011-03-29 2011-03-31
ZvZ 15 84 4-11-0 26% 3:06:27 00:12:25 3 5.0 2011-03-29 2011-03-31
ZvT 13 88 7-6-0 53% 3:42:57 00:17:09 3 4.3333335 2011-03-29 2011-03-31
ZvP 11 88 8-3-0 72% 2:58:00 00:16:10 3 3.6666667 2011-03-29 2011-03-31


Are you fucking serious? Not only my best MU, supposed to be Zerg's worst nightmare, is ZvP, but I'm RIDICULOUSLY BAD at ZvZ.

On the Platinum league, last season, I'd have about 45% W:L on ZvZ. Most of the time the game would develop a bit into roach/hydra or roach/ling battles, but it would be pretty much even. But on Diamond? This is what you get:
- 6/7 Pool
- 10 Pool banelings
- 14 Hatchpool -> Mass Ling all-in


No, SERIOUSLY, wtf are these people doing. I had like 4 or 5 games, out of these 15, where the game developed into roach battles. I either lost because the guy opened with lol-blings, and I got "Rock-Paper-Scissored" since I'm always 14hatching when someone is doing a 10pool, or they are 14hatch/pooling when I'm 14 pooling.

When I decided to go agressive with a 10pool, the guy BLINDLY built a shitton of spine crawlers and I got roled because I felt safe "lol he is in turtle mode" and then he would just bring a 17drone mass ling all in after making 4 spines after a FE. wtf. seriously.

Then there was this game where I decided to go for a simple style after seeing him turtling with lings and A LOT of spines. I got a good amount of roaches, so I'd be fine against all ins. With so many spines, and after seeing a very quick lair, I thought "mutas" just to see him going infestors. Ok, I didn't commit at all to AA defense, so I'd be fine. In the end, I lost by getting purely outmacroed. Ok, fine game.

My wins?
There is this game, my most recent win, he went hydra/infestor(/a lil' of roaches) versus my roach/hydra comp. Won by outmacroing and denying(?) his fourth(!) base. 41min long game.

Another win was a 12pool->blings that destroyed his economy completely, and I just had to make a bunch of roaches and lings to finish it.

Another win was a 6pool after raging of a loss streak.

And the last of the FOUR wins was a reasonably good defense against a bling bust after going hatch first. Apparently the guy expanded behind it and transitioned to Roaches, but his larva inject wasn't on par of my own.


Seriously, people talk a lot about ZvP, how "imba" it is, how FFs are "OP", I just got a good timing with burrow that can destroy MC-style pushes(similar to Sen's timing versus MC on Shakuras, except MC is too good), and any four gate is very easy to deal IMO. Most of my wins come from Protosses that can't stick to their plan: They build a SG and I scout it, cancel into 5gate(lol failed push); They get 3gates with a stalker first and I scout it, cancel into a SG(4 queens await! plus lol-lings) etc. I also apply enough pressure to make any sort of tech kinda bad against me, and all my losses against P are either because I didn't scout correctly or because I can't react to CrunCher's style(Voiray+fenix->Collossi->loldeathball) and its timing correctly, and since it is so rare it is hard to get a good feeling to deal with it. I'm not talking about turtle toss btw, I'm talking about constant pressure on maps that are impossible to engage his natural like Backwater Gulch.


Either way, CAN ANYONE GIVE ME A STABLE BUILD FOR ZVZ PLEEEEEEEEEEASE?! 14pool isn't cutting it, and I DON'T KNOW a good scout timing(as I build my OL? as I build my 10th drone? as my 10th drone finishes??) to be safe against all that stuff. Now I'm doing 12pools, but it is so freaking awkward it isn't funny.

I appreciate any help.

*
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
Rhyme
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1069 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-01 01:43:45
April 01 2011 01:43 GMT
#2
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199583

taught me everything i need to know in zvz

dont ever say that
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
April 01 2011 01:48 GMT
#3
I hate ZvZ too. It's a terrible matchup.
Hello
Rhyme
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1069 Posts
April 01 2011 01:54 GMT
#4
it's really not once you learn how to 15 hatch :D
dont ever say that
Turo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada333 Posts
April 01 2011 01:56 GMT
#5
i suggest saving this blog so you can look back at it when you're in masters, wondering how to beat 4gate.
Najda
Profile Joined June 2010
United States3765 Posts
April 01 2011 02:09 GMT
#6
Lol this post inspired me to look at my matchups and the only thing strange that I noticed is that in the last 40 games I've played against 2 Terrans (and I won both :D )
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
April 01 2011 02:50 GMT
#7
You should check out the first vid in the 12 weeks with the pros series by MrBitter, Ret shows how to 15hatch->15pool. From my experience, 15hatch/15pool -> roach beats every build besides 8pool spine rush.
:)
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Group B
Creator vs TriGGeR
Cure vs TBD
Crank 989
Tasteless531
ComeBackTV 475
IndyStarCraft 108
Rex90
3DClanTV 55
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 983
Tasteless 531
Harstem 119
IndyStarCraft 111
Rex 90
Lowko33
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21177
Sea 19610
Calm 5605
Rain 4055
Jaedong 2565
Bisu 1890
Horang2 1219
Flash 963
firebathero 459
Pusan 430
[ Show more ]
Zeus 208
Hyun 182
EffOrt 136
JYJ83
Soulkey 68
hero 64
sSak 58
Backho 54
ToSsGirL 50
Rush 48
JulyZerg 44
Killer 42
Mind 37
Free 32
Barracks 29
Movie 23
Bale 14
Hm[arnc] 10
Noble 7
Icarus 7
Dota 2
XcaliburYe109
resolut1ontv 93
Counter-Strike
fl0m1901
shoxiejesuss358
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King69
Other Games
summit1g16143
FrodaN2962
B2W.Neo895
ceh9423
crisheroes381
Pyrionflax276
KnowMe169
Fuzer 153
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick499
StarCraft 2
WardiTV44
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 29
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota221
League of Legends
• Stunt1206
Other Games
• WagamamaTV278
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
3m
GuMiho vs MaNa
herO vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
3m
CranKy Ducklings
22h 3m
RSL Revival
22h 3m
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
1d
Cure vs Reynor
IPSL
1d 5h
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
1d 8h
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
RSL Revival
1d 22h
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
2 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
BSL: GosuLeague
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL: GosuLeague
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.