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Hello TL,
BabyToss again, although this time not as much as update, rather than a querry towards the community. So, what's this about then?
I've been focusing on practicing on the new maps this week, so I could ladder at ease while already knowing the maps. Although, to have some variety, I've always created a lobby, opened to public and hoped to have a good game against someone random. As close as one can get to random opponent on laddering I guess.
The thing is - I've been getting a lot of PvP's. And to be frank, I realized how much I actually hate that matchup. It's boring and nothing here to surprise me and bring me the enjoyment of the game. And, I simply want to enjoy all three matchups. The way it's now, I simply just roll my eyes when a P player joins my lobby, but it'd be rude to just leave the lobby so I stay and play the game regardless. But, when I don't enjoy it, I don't see myself playing at my best. That's probably also why I lose most of my PvP's, regardless of league they are in.
My question towards you, dear TL'ers is - How can one enjoy PvP? What would you do to make this matchup more enjoyable? Any suggestions are welcome!
Off to find myself some games..
 
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United Arab Emirates660 Posts
Enjoy the intensive micro of PvP, don't think about how terrible the match up is, don't think that it is boring, play it like any other MU and keep in mind that it is a MIRROR match up, everything you have and everything you do, your opponent can do better! i personally love how micro intensive it is! its just so fun saving a 10 hp stalker from being fired at from his four gate attack, or blinking low shields units away to make them as effective as possible! good luck mate  .
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Train your micro, it will help you alot in other MatchUps!
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PvP is all about reaver/dragoon, whoever has more reavers will generally win an engagement, altho micro comes into play. Having good shuttle control to keep your reavers alive through an engagement will give you a leg up on your opponent. Even if he has you outmacro'd, good control can leave you ahead after a big engagement.
Think of it like colossus stalker in sc2. Even if your opponent has more colossus, you can often come out ahead by picking good angles, and sniping colossi.
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Blink stalker play made PvP fun for me.
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On March 04 2011 05:20 hifriend wrote:
Blink stalker play made PvP fun for me.
this
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On March 04 2011 04:22 BabyToss! wrote:
Hello TL,
BabyToss again, although this time not as much as update, rather than a querry towards the community. So, what's this about then?
I've been focusing on practicing on the new maps this week, so I could ladder at ease while already knowing the maps. Although, to have some variety, I've always created a lobby, opened to public and hoped to have a good game against someone random. As close as one can get to random opponent on laddering I guess.
The thing is - I've been getting a lot of PvP's. And to be frank, I realized how much I actually hate that matchup. It's boring and nothing here to surprise me and bring me the enjoyment of the game. And, I simply want to enjoy all three matchups. The way it's now, I simply just roll my eyes when a P player joins my lobby, but it'd be rude to just leave the lobby so I stay and play the game regardless. But, when I don't enjoy it, I don't see myself playing at my best. That's probably also why I lose most of my PvP's, regardless of league they are in.
My question towards you, dear TL'ers is - How can one enjoy PvP? What would you do to make this matchup more enjoyable? Any suggestions are welcome!
Off to find myself some games..
I'm pretty sure he is talking about SC2 PvP guys.
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On March 04 2011 05:56 L_Master wrote:
I'm pretty sure he is talking about SC2 PvP guys.
Yep, this is about StarCraft2.
Also, someone pointed out Blink Stalkers are a way to enjoy PvP. I've seen these in action, however, being rather new, I don't posses such micro ability yet. My only micro is throwing a FF down there from time to time upon need and then A-move. Learning to macro kind of a person here... and yet, PvP hardly turns out to be a macro game, which is probably my biggest reason for not enjoying it.
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I assume this is regarding SC2? Wel, just dont 4gate ever, and it actually turns out to be a lot of fun. I can almost always hold off a 4warpgate push with 2 gate robo, because i like getting an early forge. Better units are more efficient than masses imo. 2 gates also makes it fun because you likely need crazy micro to hold the push off..
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Pretty much no matter what you have a very micro-oriented matchup, because either you will 4gate or your opponent will(or at least he'll defensively 4gate). The thing is that the people at your level are definitely going to be making enough mistakes for you to do kcdc's 1gas 1gate robo and make it really work, so check that out in the strategy forum. There's also Yonghwa's 3 stalker rush that's good against a normal 4gate push but it's actually not very easy to execute.
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On March 04 2011 06:26 Rkie wrote:
I assume this is regarding SC2? Wel, just dont 4gate ever, and it actually turns out to be a lot of fun. I can almost always hold off a 4warpgate push with 2 gate robo, because i like getting an early forge. Better units are more efficient than masses imo. 2 gates also makes it fun because you likely need crazy micro to hold the push off..
I actually never 4gate. Been told that 4gating doesn't make one a better player, so I just don't do it. Besides, what could be possibly funny on doing that build? I'm in to become a better, well-rounded Protoss player. I usually prefer 3gate robo opener but that's imo not too viable vs well executed 4gate? I'd not feel too safe on 2gate robo opener, since he might get more units than me and thus, roll me over with sheer numbers. I sadly don't have the crazy micro you speak of yet! Trying to grasp macro first! :-)
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If you have problems with 4 gates and you don't want to 4 gate yourself, then I suggest you going for the fast 3 stalkers build as mentioned eariler, takes time to learn, but once you get used to it you don't need to worry about 4 gaters anymore.
As for enjoying the matchup - I'd say mix up your strats, there's really no other way as you just can't tell your opponent "no 4 gate, let's play macro games please". Try korean inbase 4 gate, proxy gate on 2 players map (when you make pylon outside and gateway inside his base), some phoenix/voidray build. Yea, it's lame, but at least you'll have fun.
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On March 04 2011 05:20 hifriend wrote:
Blink stalker play made PvP fun for me.
Agreed.
What made PvP fun for me was trying unorthodox strategies. Losing isn't so bad if you're trying something new.
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On March 04 2011 07:02 BabyToss! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 06:26 Rkie wrote:
I assume this is regarding SC2? Wel, just dont 4gate ever, and it actually turns out to be a lot of fun. I can almost always hold off a 4warpgate push with 2 gate robo, because i like getting an early forge. Better units are more efficient than masses imo. 2 gates also makes it fun because you likely need crazy micro to hold the push off.. I actually never 4gate. Been told that 4gating doesn't make one a better player, so I just don't do it.
At least ATM people who are above a certain minimum threshold of competence but below the absolute highest of the highest level(okay, at the highest of the highest level right now as well) are stuck 4gating in PvP. I'd say that doing expansion builds and trying to play macro style in PvT and PvZ is the stronger, more stable, and more educational style, but like many mirror matches before it, PvP is kinda fucked up and 4gate is so powerful that the only builds that aren't it are built to counter it. There aren't many alternatives. If you're trying to defend and go robo the best bet is actually just a slower, slightly more econ-oriented 4gate where you don't attack and just make a robo if your opponent does a build other than a 4gate rush. The only problem is that at lower levels you find people who do extremely stupid, risky builds that would earn them a healthy 5W-100L record in a normal metagame(aka one where more than half the people 4gate rush every game) and those often WILL actually beat a defensive 4gate.
So I guess what I'm saying is sorry but the matchup kind of sucks and you will have hardly any serviceable options if you want to never 4gate.
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try 3 stalker robo
or the more general idea: "chrono out units instead of warpgate to deny proxy pylons while getting 2nd gas + robo off 1 base"
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I hate PvP as well, but I've been probe rushing and it's great!
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Fortunately, I play terran, so I don't have to deal with PvP. If I were you, I would proxy 2-gate every game. If my opponent rages at me, I'll just say: "I don't want to play 4-gate vs 4-gate, at least I've give you a different game" and they'll agree with me as well.
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On March 04 2011 11:21 palanq wrote:try 3 stalker roboor the more general idea: "chrono out units instead of warpgate to deny proxy pylons while getting 2nd gas + robo off 1 base"
OP definitely try this, in the lower levels (at least to plat) once you take that early lead the opposing player just starts messing everything up, macro/micro. All you gotta do is be aggressive if you can't pick off units or go up his ramp turn it into a contain with FF and expand while getting immortal or collosus, or even just 3 more gates if you are confident in micro/positioning.
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I doubt there's a Protoss out there who actually enjoys PvP. I think that sort of applies to all mirror matchups, no one really likes it, but PvP especially because its annoying at all stages of the game. Its nearly impossible to go from 1base to 2base if your opponent is not doing the same thing, and the first to expand often dies unless they were already ahead. This promotes 1base all-ins a lot, and each of them requires a different reaction. The only real way to know whats going is observers, but if you try to go for a robo unless you are doing it in a very certain way (3 stalker robo) you're likely to lose to a 4gate.
And even if you do 4gate to counter a potential 4gate, you can still potentially be outmicro'd and lose that way.
its just a frustrating matchup, so I just approach it with the mindset that I'll use it to practise my gateway unit control and 4gate every time.
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EPT
