i dont usually use build orders past 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas 15 oc. and im top 100 NA.

being able to play by feel > BO. just have actually have enough experience.

puppykiller

United States3130 Posts

February 09 2011 21:37 GMT

#22

On February 10 2011 05:40 PhiliBiRD wrote:

Show nested quote +

i dont usually use build orders past 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas 15 oc. and im top 100 NA.

being able to play by feel > BO. just have actually have enough experience.

Why dont you ask any good player (as in an sc2 player who actually wins or goes far in tournaments) if they follow and develop build orders. Maybe your one of the best of the noobs but that still makes you among the noobs.

Helios.Star

United States548 Posts

February 09 2011 21:51 GMT

#23

On February 10 2011 05:40 PhiliBiRD wrote:

Show nested quote +

i dont usually use build orders past 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas 15 oc. and im top 100 NA.

being able to play by feel > BO. just have actually have enough experience.

Yeah I should have clarified in my post that I'm pretty much the same way. I have a build I generally follow up to my cyber core but after that its almost completely reactionary.

On February 10 2011 06:37 puppykiller wrote:

Why dont you ask any good player (as in an sc2 player who actually wins or goes far in tournaments) if they follow and develop build orders. Maybe your one of the best of the noobs but that still makes you among the noobs.

If youre calling somebody who is top 100 NA a noob you must be pretty damn good huh.

Megaliskuu

United States5123 Posts

February 09 2011 22:14 GMT

#24

On February 10 2011 05:22 Mortician wrote:
by not following a solid build order you are bottlenecking yourself. You should either follow a build order or try to optimize a build order. If you play freestyle you will hit a dead end somewhere. You might be roflstomping noobs now because the game is new, but as things settle down, you will get crushed by almost everybody.

Look at BW. You can't win games even at the D ranks if you don't have a solid BO

Depends what you consider a "solid BO". I hit c- before ever looking at a concrete BO, I just knew that in zvt, get 3 hatches and make mutas->lurkers->hive...Same for other MUs, I freestyled for a long time..

.gypsy

Canada689 Posts

February 09 2011 22:16 GMT

#25

On February 10 2011 06:37 puppykiller wrote:

Show nested quote +

Someone's hella jelly.

I think it's safe to say that amongst top players, all are capable of playing intuitively. But a major factor separating the good from the best is based a lot on strong and diverse openings as well as knowledge of specific timings throughout each matchup

starfries

Canada3508 Posts

February 09 2011 22:22 GMT

#26

I don't think it has anything to do with age. I've always liked theorycraft better even when the game just came out. It might have to do with the fact that my mom only let me play for an hour but I could browse the web for longer, so I ended up theorycrafting most of the time.

edit: but since I play random I wing it anyways

numLoCK

Canada1416 Posts

February 09 2011 23:14 GMT

#27

Well I've had a huge thing for build orders since I was 15 so maybe I'm an anomaly.
But seriously, how can you not like having everything planned out so that like 10 minutes in you've got exactly 0 gas and everything you need going perfectly? Admittedly, I haven't been able to enjoy build orders in SC2 as much as they aren't nearly as clean yet

I miss knowing 3hat spire 5 hat hydra up to 80 supply in like 3 different variations, despite being a protoss player (I had a crush on that build <3)

IMlemon

Lithuania296 Posts

February 09 2011 23:19 GMT

#28

To put it (incredibly) bluntly, kids are stupid, so they cannot theorycraft and whatnot. They do however have better pattern recognition skills so they can play more by instinct and feel. You obviously need both of these if you want to be the best, and thats the reason why you don't have 14 year old champions at mental sports (chess, etc).

eviltomahawk

United States11135 Posts

February 09 2011 23:57 GMT

#29

I think it really depends on how the person developed as a player. If all through their childhood until say age 17 they played Starcraft as though it was Simcity, and then realized at age 18 the proper way to play, then of course the adult will be worse than some kids.

However, if the kid gets a grasp of major fundamentals early on in life, then they will definitely develop into a beastly player as an adult. Learning how to macro well during high school, middle school, or heck even elementary school will instill a firm understanding of mechanics that will trump any theorycrafting made by any adult.

Bibdy

United States3481 Posts

February 10 2011 00:46 GMT

#30

On February 10 2011 04:06 Sayle wrote:
How is it that you know the ages of everyone you play? And if they tell you, how do you know they're telling the truth?

First thing I thought.

Sounds like a whole hell of a lot of theory, with no actual proof to back it up. Oh the irony.

Shana

Indonesia1814 Posts

February 10 2011 01:07 GMT

#31

I can't do theorycrafting. I don't even have proper build order, I just do random stuff here and there.

evanthebouncy!

United States12796 Posts

February 10 2011 02:02 GMT

#32

On February 10 2011 04:35 darmousseh wrote:
Execution > Strategy. If you have a great strategy, but can't execute, it doesn't matter.

pretty much this.

evanthebouncy!

United States12796 Posts

February 10 2011 02:03 GMT

#33

On February 10 2011 07:22 starfries wrote:
I don't think it has anything to do with age. I've always liked theorycraft better even when the game just came out. It might have to do with the fact that my mom only let me play for an hour but I could browse the web for longer, so I ended up theorycrafting most of the time.

edit: but since I play random I wing it anyways

and this too.

SpoR

United States1542 Posts

February 10 2011 08:52 GMT

#34

This thread is a poorly argued opinion. It stereotypes pretty hard.

I've got a few build orders to open/counter specific builds based heavily on my scouting information. Once the scout(s) see what is going on from the enemy, then I try and respond accordingly. My build order doesn't really go past 21 if even that.
I'm M league zerg and I'm 26 if you care.

OmniEulogy

Canada6592 Posts

February 10 2011 09:18 GMT

#35

I agree but the exceptions to the rules have turned out to be the greatest players... in my mind anyway... Boxer and White-Ra.

Marksman

Malaysia523 Posts

February 10 2011 09:31 GMT

#36

In my opinion, it depends on people. Adults in general are studying in tertiary or already working. They tend to derive their experience and turn it into a numerical facts. (Due to application of understanding)

Kids tend to not have to solve real complicated problems. They mass games and hence develop their six sense. Adults don't play as much due to possibly dire consequences and thus in order to keep up, they apply logical thinking to cover for practice.

I lack a lot of practice but I use mathematical analysis in order to improve my TvT economic management. I use logical reasoning to construct a new build order for TvZ (Which is in the testing phase atm) and so on.

These aren't facts. Its more to an individual choice and again my reasoning of such a fact.