• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:43
CEST 11:43
KST 18:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers19Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers INu's Battles#14 <BO.9 2Matches> GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review ASL21 General Discussion BW General Discussion Data needed
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1532 users

I feel so guilty... (sc2 related)

Blogs > jlim
Post a Reply
jlim
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Spain943 Posts
January 30 2011 12:07 GMT
#1
Rushes, all-ins, base trades... I love them.

I am a noob who just got promoted to silver with a 13-10 record. In my previous entry I shared the experience of my first three placement matches, sharing with you all the joy of outmacroing your opponents. However, in my last 2 games I got marinetank rushed and baneling busted respectively and got placed at bronze league. The funny thing is that in the last game I knew I was gonna get baneling busted yet I could do nothing to stop it, mostly due to inexperience I guess.

I didn't rage or anything, but I got somewhat worried. I didn't know how to fend off cheeses and I got placed in bronze league, where many people is supposed to be cheesing in every single game. So my conclusion was that the only thing I could do to survive was to cheese back. In other words, what I would do was to make lots of units early to fend off incoming cheeses and then counter and win. In case of my enemy didn't rush, then I'd cheese them cuz I'd be so behind. That idea made me feel very bad, like cheesing people who tries to play an interesting game is not really fun.

So, commited to this idea, I started to play games. However, I decided to do that without looking up any info, aka playing without knowing what the rush builds were. Naturally, I lost most of my first games but I soon started to win more than lose. Meanwhile, I started to figure out by myself which builds and units go well against each race, some early timings, hotkeys, openings, effectivity of rushes, etc. by just playing. 23 games after, I got promoted to silver. Today, reading liquipedia, I found that I already knew all the 4 general openings for terran that are written there. But that's not the point of this post.

The point is that while laddering trying to cheese effectively, I felt something strange. The first games I didn't feel too guilty for rushing because I lost, but as soon as I started to win with my self-made cheeses I noticed that instead of feeling bad for cheesing the other player, I felt so much joy and pleasure by doing that.

Witnessing how this greedy player tries to tech and expand so fast just to lose to 3rax being feeded by 15 scvs is so ruthlessly fun... as much as rushing back this guy who rushed you first, win in a base trade caused by mutual cheese, winning desperately a game where the enemy has hold off all your attacks and you're about to run out of minerals by pulling out scvs... I love that feeling of "win or die", no second chances. It's so exciting!

I know this is not how the game is supposed to be played and that pretty soon I'm gonna get matched with people who knows to hold off rushes while not losing too much, and that I'm gonna get crushed pretty soon. But oh man I have so much fun cheesing the city...

Of course I've been cheesed too, I've lost to megaraxes, dt rushes and all kinds of crap but obviously I have nothing to claim against. Also I'm amazed at how effective scvs are at tanking and even dealing damage. I always thought workers were useless in any fight, but in sc2 those workers sure can make a difference lol



Anyways, if you're not sickened yet by this cheesing apology or if you are this wicked player who enjoys the cheese, I've uploaded and recapped some of my games.

As always, beware of the massive noobinness of my play: misclicks, awful timings and misrallies join together to offer a really painful watching experience.

Also, the games are against silver, gold and platinum players, and are posted chronologically)

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/132351-1v1-terran-zerg-scrap-station

TvZ in scrap station. Z baneling busts me while I banshee rush. I get cloak in the last moment and autowin as my CC floats his way to Jupiter.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/132352-1v1-terran-protoss-blistering-sands

TvP in blistering sands. The first game where my infamous 3rax (techlab/reactor/reactor) build proves effective against a competent player. P attacks my rocks as I'm walled off, I repel the attack, I move to his base and he barely holds off with zealots+voidrays. He counters then, gets in my house and takes off some depos, and I barely kick him off. I move towards his base again and he's finally forced to capitulate as my army unit count is superior.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/132353-1v1-terran-zerg-jungle-basin

TvZ in jungle basin. Z is a complete baller who takes map control, techs and expands all at the same time. I all-in BBBP style with non-upgraded marines and scvs and he holds off very well but in the end he has to surrender to the marine haxor.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/132354-1v1-terran-protoss-steppes-of-war

TvP in steppes of war. As usual I 3rax him and due to constant reinforcements he ends up losing and rages all over the screen.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/132355-1v1-terran-protoss-blistering-sands

TvP in blistering sands. Hardest game to win up to now. I go with my lame 3rax but he zealot rushes (iirc) and I hardly hold it off. Then lots of back and forth happen, where we both keep counterattacking after the other's attack. I notice I'm about to run out of minerals in my base and obviously I have neither enough resources nor mental stability to expand, so I pull out scvs and make one last final push. The scvs were the deciding factor of this game and his heroic tanking severely cripples the P, and the few marines made off the leftovers of my base clean the enemy base and win.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/132356-1v1-terran-scrap-station

TvT in scrap station. I decide to try 3rax against terran while the enemy techs to banshee and expands safely with tanks bunkers and that fancy stuff. In some moment early in the game I push with my MarineMarauder and I almost kill him but 2 cloaked banshees come and I have neither enough marines nor energy for a scan so I have to pull back. I know I'm so behind that I decide to give it another try. I get more MM and a raven for detection purposes. I push again pulling out scvs and although he has lots of shit tech and eco MM is just so fucking good I clean everything and win.


and as a bonus...

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/132357-ffa-terran-protoss-kulas-ravine

FFA in kulas ravine (TvTvPvP). My first FFA ever. I turtle hard and build an army while fending off attacks (I think I was the most aggro'd player in the game iirc). I kill one guy and eventually it becomes 1v1. The fun lies in that when I had my 200/200 army, even though I could have expanded anywhere and keep resupplying my army, I just go all-in pulling off scvs and just destroy my enemy who has to surrender with 10k minerals and lots of gas in his bank.


So that was it. If someone actually enjoyed it I'm so glad he/she did so. I just wanted to share it with you my fellow liquidians.
And to all the cheesed people out there, please don't be offended, as this all is made only with humour and fun purposes.

You know, I'm most likely to change my mind any time soon

*
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
January 30 2011 13:21 GMT
#2
haha. so this is the mysterious 'playing for fun' that people supposedly do... rather than constantly worrying about our ladder ranks and win percentages etc. sounds like you love what you're doing and i think you should stick to it..

if you ever get bored of the cheese you know where to go for people who love the stable macro play
Sad[Panda]
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States458 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-30 15:07:15
January 30 2011 15:03 GMT
#3
Well I think you use the word "Cheese" a bit to loosely tbh because rushing a banshee** (aka 111 build) is something alot of people do and the BO to get there is very standard and easily adapted. Also 3 Rax isn't cheese either** and is something I would recommend on maps like Blistering sands and steps of war just because of the stupid close rush distance and when you hit the timing attack you just expand or tech anyway and you wont lose to things like proxy rax or gates, but regardless enjoy your basetrades and SCV rushes I will admit basetrades are very very very exciting Next try to Planetary fortress rush some kids thats reallly lulzy :D

** I didn't actually watch the reps so I don't know if you proxied anything or cut scv's to actually make these builds Cheesy allins.
( O.O) ("\(t.t )/") ~ I'm just looking for someone to hug
jlim
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Spain943 Posts
January 30 2011 15:22 GMT
#4
@kerpal Thank you a lot for your positive comment

@Sad[Panda] (good nickname btw) Although I'm very new to this I think I got the meaning of the word "cheese". I understand "cheese" as a "gimmicky, lame or rushed thing hard to prevent designed to win outright or utterly lose". Maybe "trick pony" is also a good equivalent. And yeah in my games the banshee rushing was a cheese because I only focused in getting the banshees asap and kill the zerg before he got a lair, I had nothing planned afterwards but to fly my buildings around. All the executed 3rax were also cheese because I basically cut scvs at 15 (lol), cut supplies at ~50 and hoped on killing the enemy by constant pressure before running out of minerals at my main. But yeah thanks for the advice on how to rush banshees and going 3rax while playing productively and towards the long game. I also have to try yet the PF Rush. I really appreciate your comment
Sad[Panda]
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States458 Posts
February 01 2011 06:33 GMT
#5
On January 31 2011 00:22 jlim wrote:
@kerpal Thank you a lot for your positive comment

@Sad[Panda] (good nickname btw) Although I'm very new to this I think I got the meaning of the word "cheese". I understand "cheese" as a "gimmicky, lame or rushed thing hard to prevent designed to win outright or utterly lose". Maybe "trick pony" is also a good equivalent. And yeah in my games the banshee rushing was a cheese because I only focused in getting the banshees asap and kill the zerg before he got a lair, I had nothing planned afterwards but to fly my buildings around. All the executed 3rax were also cheese because I basically cut scvs at 15 (lol), cut supplies at ~50 and hoped on killing the enemy by constant pressure before running out of minerals at my main. But yeah thanks for the advice on how to rush banshees and going 3rax while playing productively and towards the long game. I also have to try yet the PF Rush. I really appreciate your comment


Well like I said I didn't really watch the reps but yeah you pretty much got what I interpret as a true definition of cheese but not all cheese has to be all-in I think thats the biggest misconception of cheese, for example proxy rax isn't really all-in although it can be extremely detrimental to you if your enemy can kill them you still wont lose outright as long as you take proper precautions with static D and maybe a walloff.

Im glad you got something out of my post and didn't think of it as hostile (although I could see how someone could interpret it that way with me saying you use the word cheese loosely) as I didn't intend it to be that way, but yeah PF fortress is really really funny when it works xDDD
( O.O) ("\(t.t )/") ~ I'm just looking for someone to hug
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 18m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech128
SortOf 85
Railgan 40
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24151
Jaedong 480
actioN 198
BeSt 192
ZerO 164
Sexy 85
Dewaltoss 84
Sharp 63
Pusan 63
NotJumperer 24
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 20
sorry 17
HiyA 17
SilentControl 12
Dota 2
Gorgc1216
XaKoH 494
NeuroSwarm444
XcaliburYe143
League of Legends
JimRising 510
Counter-Strike
allub437
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor284
Other Games
singsing1233
Happy488
B2W.Neo356
Pyrionflax101
Mew2King50
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream14054
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 20
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 6
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1237
League of Legends
• Jankos1388
• TFBlade1254
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1h 18m
MaxPax vs SHIN
Clem vs Classic
Ladder Legends
5h 18m
Solar vs GgMaChine
Bunny vs Cham
ByuN vs MaxPax
BSL
9h 18m
CranKy Ducklings
14h 18m
Replay Cast
23h 18m
Wardi Open
1d
Afreeca Starleague
1d
Soma vs hero
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Leta vs YSC
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Escore
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W4
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.