• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:57
CEST 10:57
KST 17:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!19Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)87Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!18
StarCraft 2
General
How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters [D] Wireframe Casting Removed
Tourneys
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
Animated Gateway BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ HORROR STARCRAFT MOVIE How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut?
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs Fighting Spirit mining rates Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Diablo IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Role of Gaming on Mental Hea…
TrAiDoS
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4434 users

Stalemate detection: Counter-example!

Blogs > KillerDucky
Post a Reply
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
December 22 2010 07:02 GMT
#1
I just won a game that would have been declared a stalemate in Patch 1.2!

Stalemates:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662
The game will end in a tie for all remaining players if no players have income, production, or destroyed any structures for three consecutive minutes.


See tl;dr at bottom.

http://replayfu.com/r/XpLPdr

2v2 TZvTT, we get into a base trade situation. We kill all the enemy CCs and they don't have enough to rebuild. We also have 7k minerals (yeah I suck but that made this situation possible!), but their standing army is bigger and I have to lift my buildings and fly away.

So they have 8 thors and we have nothing, they even kill my last CC before I realized I needed to lift everything.

I build another CC, it gets killed. I build yet another CC, this one lives and I lift it off to hide. I build a hidden Ghost Academy, land one of my hidden rax, add a tech lab, and pump 4 ghosts.

I greedily send all 4 in to take out his base, take out most of it before he thinks to lift. By now the 8 thors come back, and I split up the ghosts but lose 2. Now I'm trying to send 1 ghost at a time to kill the rest of the non-flying base, and also reduce thor numbers, while the other is hidden regaining cloak.

Eventually he finds both the ghosts in their hiding spots without enough energy. By now he is down to 4 thors. But I still have 3 hidden rax, and start landing one to build up groups of 11 marines (supply from floating CC) at a time. Build a group of 11, go out and reduce health on thors as much as possible.

Finally he figures where I'm doing the landing and camps. So I land the CC which is on the other side and build some SCVs. CC is camped by one of his buildings so he sees immediately and reacts, but I manage to escape one. By this time he is down to just 3 thors, and and maybe he saw me escape one of the SCVs. In anycase he finally decides to leave. GG!

----------------------------------
tl;dr
During the stalemate-like portion of the game, I needed to run ghosts away from Thors and recharge energy, then go in and snipe more buildings. There were times that more than 3 minutes went by without me destroying a building, especially when I was focusing on reducing Thor numbers instead of picking off buildings.


*
MarineKingPrime Forever!
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
December 22 2010 07:05 GMT
#2
Ye, I think they're going to catch more real games than stalemated ones with this. Would changing destroy buildings to deal damage to an enemy fix things?
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6267 Posts
December 22 2010 07:17 GMT
#3
I once played a game where I had a single starport left along with viking/banshees. I won by slowly denying expos with banshees while protecting my starport. I still would've won with the stalemate detection on but it would've put pressure on me. In my opinion, the stalemate detection should be more than 3 mins (e.g. 10 mins?) and changed to include damage to opponent units.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 07:34:18
December 22 2010 07:22 GMT
#4
That was a pretty funny game. Technically you should have won a long time before that since you could have been mining. So I like the idea of a draw forcing you to make decisions to not just "wait it out".

In chess there is a similar 50 move rule. If neither player has moved a pawn nor taken a piece or promoted a piece then it is a draw. This situation happens when like both players have 1 knight and 1 bishop or rook vs rook. I'm ok with the rule. Maybe extend it to 5 minutes.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9110 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 07:30:10
December 22 2010 07:30 GMT
#5
I think they should add the parameter of "no units have been killed in the last 3 minutes" as well.
Suptzs
Profile Joined July 2010
Switzerland48 Posts
December 22 2010 07:36 GMT
#6
Isn't there a parameter for "no minerals mined"?
At my signal unleash hell.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9110 Posts
December 22 2010 07:52 GMT
#7
On December 22 2010 16:30 Jonoman92 wrote:
I think they should add the parameter of "no units have been killed in the last 3 minutes" as well.



edit: Or maybe as suggested above, "no damage has been dealt in the last 3 minutes"
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
December 22 2010 07:54 GMT
#8
Sounds like a really good start for a stalemate detection scheme, except that i would say the players always have the ability to ask for a draw and if both players agree it's a draw, as well as each player being able to ignore draw requests temporarilly or permanently, as well as after at least 5 minutes and those other conditions being met it should automatically ask both players and if either one of them agrees it would be a draw. It seems a little unnecessary to make it an absolutely mandatory draw if both players feel like playing. One problem with counting unit exchanges would be that a player could save some of his workers after mining out and throw them at the opponent's static d one by one, every 5 minutes.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
December 22 2010 09:22 GMT
#9
Master Asia vs TTOne.

That is all. Nothing was destroyed for quite a while, before TTOne figured out he should just go for it. This epic epic epic game wouldn't have been possible in 1.2
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
December 22 2010 10:11 GMT
#10
Well problem is that terran has this screw you all option while other races are dead if they lose big fight as they cannot lift off.
Would you have left if he had guarded everything properly so you cannot land and produce stuff? Maybe, but there are people who definetly wouldnt and for that stalemate option does come in handy.

In short yes stalemate prevention can be detrimential, but in the end it does more good than harm. (On ladder at least)
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
December 22 2010 16:52 GMT
#11
On December 22 2010 16:22 darmousseh wrote:
That was a pretty funny game. Technically you should have won a long time before that since you could have been mining. So I like the idea of a draw forcing you to make decisions to not just "wait it out".

In chess there is a similar 50 move rule. If neither player has moved a pawn nor taken a piece or promoted a piece then it is a draw. This situation happens when like both players have 1 knight and 1 bishop or rook vs rook. I'm ok with the rule. Maybe extend it to 5 minutes.


I couldn't mine because he had a building following my CC, so when I landed it he would come chase it off.

Really I just thought it was an epic game and wanted to share it here. I think the new draw rule is ok, it would have just forced me to try to reset the timer making it more difficult. And if that made the game a draw, well I just didn't do enough to win.

MarineKingPrime Forever!
Zim23
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1681 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 18:14:50
December 22 2010 18:13 GMT
#12
I think what they're saying is that if you get into that position then it's a draw/stalemate, even if you can possibly win. They recognize that if the game went on long enough then someone can win, but they don't care, if it's going to take that long to win then it's just a stalemate. I don't necessarily agree with that personally, but I also think having a 2 hour ladder game because players are too stubborn to leave isn't exactly fun. I'm sure they'll change this rule eventually, but I get the idea behind it.
Do an arranged marriage if she's not completely minging, and don't worry about dancing, get a go-kart, cheers.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
December 22 2010 19:26 GMT
#13
one time i played a lost temple ladder game on bw
i killed them off and they floated to island and mass turret.
but i had to go to dinner with grandparents.. so i just afk in game
came back 4 hours later and the island turtler was massing bc's and just starting to attack.
it took me 5 minutes to mass wraith and rape his 4 hour bc efforts.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 1028
Mini 210
Mong 188
Mind 172
actioN 136
Stork 75
sorry 66
Light 63
Killer 52
Aegong 38
[ Show more ]
Larva 28
Sharp 26
Bale 23
yabsab 23
JulyZerg 22
Movie 9
League of Legends
JimRising 581
Other Games
gofns13599
FrodaN1469
ceh9885
WinterStarcraft686
RuFF_SC232
Trikslyr16
CosmosSc2 10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1315
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 70
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH352
• StrangeGG 43
• LUISG 19
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2172
League of Legends
• Jankos1590
• Stunt917
• HappyZerGling136
Upcoming Events
KCM Race Survival
1h 3m
CrankTV Team League
2h 3m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3h 3m
Replay Cast
15h 3m
Escore
1d 1h
CrankTV Team League
1d 2h
Big Brain Bouts
1d 7h
Soulspirit vs goblin
TriGGeR vs Bunny
Korean StarCraft League
1d 18h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 19h
RSL Revival
2 days
Serral vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
[ Show More ]
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Clem vs ByuN
Rogue vs Lambo
OSC
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
INu's Battles
5 days
Cure vs herO
ByuN vs Rogue
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Patches Events
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-22
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.