• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:49
CEST 23:49
KST 06:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China1Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16
StarCraft 2
General
Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 613 users

Stalemate detection: Counter-example!

Blogs > KillerDucky
Post a Reply
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
December 22 2010 07:02 GMT
#1
I just won a game that would have been declared a stalemate in Patch 1.2!

Stalemates:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662
The game will end in a tie for all remaining players if no players have income, production, or destroyed any structures for three consecutive minutes.


See tl;dr at bottom.

http://replayfu.com/r/XpLPdr

2v2 TZvTT, we get into a base trade situation. We kill all the enemy CCs and they don't have enough to rebuild. We also have 7k minerals (yeah I suck but that made this situation possible!), but their standing army is bigger and I have to lift my buildings and fly away.

So they have 8 thors and we have nothing, they even kill my last CC before I realized I needed to lift everything.

I build another CC, it gets killed. I build yet another CC, this one lives and I lift it off to hide. I build a hidden Ghost Academy, land one of my hidden rax, add a tech lab, and pump 4 ghosts.

I greedily send all 4 in to take out his base, take out most of it before he thinks to lift. By now the 8 thors come back, and I split up the ghosts but lose 2. Now I'm trying to send 1 ghost at a time to kill the rest of the non-flying base, and also reduce thor numbers, while the other is hidden regaining cloak.

Eventually he finds both the ghosts in their hiding spots without enough energy. By now he is down to 4 thors. But I still have 3 hidden rax, and start landing one to build up groups of 11 marines (supply from floating CC) at a time. Build a group of 11, go out and reduce health on thors as much as possible.

Finally he figures where I'm doing the landing and camps. So I land the CC which is on the other side and build some SCVs. CC is camped by one of his buildings so he sees immediately and reacts, but I manage to escape one. By this time he is down to just 3 thors, and and maybe he saw me escape one of the SCVs. In anycase he finally decides to leave. GG!

----------------------------------
tl;dr
During the stalemate-like portion of the game, I needed to run ghosts away from Thors and recharge energy, then go in and snipe more buildings. There were times that more than 3 minutes went by without me destroying a building, especially when I was focusing on reducing Thor numbers instead of picking off buildings.


*
MarineKingPrime Forever!
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
December 22 2010 07:05 GMT
#2
Ye, I think they're going to catch more real games than stalemated ones with this. Would changing destroy buildings to deal damage to an enemy fix things?
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6259 Posts
December 22 2010 07:17 GMT
#3
I once played a game where I had a single starport left along with viking/banshees. I won by slowly denying expos with banshees while protecting my starport. I still would've won with the stalemate detection on but it would've put pressure on me. In my opinion, the stalemate detection should be more than 3 mins (e.g. 10 mins?) and changed to include damage to opponent units.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 07:34:18
December 22 2010 07:22 GMT
#4
That was a pretty funny game. Technically you should have won a long time before that since you could have been mining. So I like the idea of a draw forcing you to make decisions to not just "wait it out".

In chess there is a similar 50 move rule. If neither player has moved a pawn nor taken a piece or promoted a piece then it is a draw. This situation happens when like both players have 1 knight and 1 bishop or rook vs rook. I'm ok with the rule. Maybe extend it to 5 minutes.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 07:30:10
December 22 2010 07:30 GMT
#5
I think they should add the parameter of "no units have been killed in the last 3 minutes" as well.
Suptzs
Profile Joined July 2010
Switzerland48 Posts
December 22 2010 07:36 GMT
#6
Isn't there a parameter for "no minerals mined"?
At my signal unleash hell.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
December 22 2010 07:52 GMT
#7
On December 22 2010 16:30 Jonoman92 wrote:
I think they should add the parameter of "no units have been killed in the last 3 minutes" as well.



edit: Or maybe as suggested above, "no damage has been dealt in the last 3 minutes"
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
December 22 2010 07:54 GMT
#8
Sounds like a really good start for a stalemate detection scheme, except that i would say the players always have the ability to ask for a draw and if both players agree it's a draw, as well as each player being able to ignore draw requests temporarilly or permanently, as well as after at least 5 minutes and those other conditions being met it should automatically ask both players and if either one of them agrees it would be a draw. It seems a little unnecessary to make it an absolutely mandatory draw if both players feel like playing. One problem with counting unit exchanges would be that a player could save some of his workers after mining out and throw them at the opponent's static d one by one, every 5 minutes.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
December 22 2010 09:22 GMT
#9
Master Asia vs TTOne.

That is all. Nothing was destroyed for quite a while, before TTOne figured out he should just go for it. This epic epic epic game wouldn't have been possible in 1.2
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
December 22 2010 10:11 GMT
#10
Well problem is that terran has this screw you all option while other races are dead if they lose big fight as they cannot lift off.
Would you have left if he had guarded everything properly so you cannot land and produce stuff? Maybe, but there are people who definetly wouldnt and for that stalemate option does come in handy.

In short yes stalemate prevention can be detrimential, but in the end it does more good than harm. (On ladder at least)
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
December 22 2010 16:52 GMT
#11
On December 22 2010 16:22 darmousseh wrote:
That was a pretty funny game. Technically you should have won a long time before that since you could have been mining. So I like the idea of a draw forcing you to make decisions to not just "wait it out".

In chess there is a similar 50 move rule. If neither player has moved a pawn nor taken a piece or promoted a piece then it is a draw. This situation happens when like both players have 1 knight and 1 bishop or rook vs rook. I'm ok with the rule. Maybe extend it to 5 minutes.


I couldn't mine because he had a building following my CC, so when I landed it he would come chase it off.

Really I just thought it was an epic game and wanted to share it here. I think the new draw rule is ok, it would have just forced me to try to reset the timer making it more difficult. And if that made the game a draw, well I just didn't do enough to win.

MarineKingPrime Forever!
Zim23
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1681 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 18:14:50
December 22 2010 18:13 GMT
#12
I think what they're saying is that if you get into that position then it's a draw/stalemate, even if you can possibly win. They recognize that if the game went on long enough then someone can win, but they don't care, if it's going to take that long to win then it's just a stalemate. I don't necessarily agree with that personally, but I also think having a 2 hour ladder game because players are too stubborn to leave isn't exactly fun. I'm sure they'll change this rule eventually, but I get the idea behind it.
Do an arranged marriage if she's not completely minging, and don't worry about dancing, get a go-kart, cheers.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
December 22 2010 19:26 GMT
#13
one time i played a lost temple ladder game on bw
i killed them off and they floated to island and mass turret.
but i had to go to dinner with grandparents.. so i just afk in game
came back 4 hours later and the island turtler was massing bc's and just starting to attack.
it took me 5 minutes to mass wraith and rape his 4 hour bc efforts.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: ProLeague
18:00
Grand Finals - bo9
Dewalt vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O406
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 112
ProTech84
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 406
Terrorterran 26
League of Legends
Grubby4771
Dendi1544
Counter-Strike
fl0m1673
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King218
Chillindude75
Westballz51
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor832
Liquid`Hasu662
Other Games
summit1g5289
FrodaN2965
tarik_tv1849
mouzStarbuck345
Pyrionflax211
ViBE111
elazer105
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick44472
EGCTV1102
BasetradeTV49
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 66
• Adnapsc2 24
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 3DClanTV 78
• blackmanpl 10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler149
League of Legends
• masondota2840
Other Games
• imaqtpie2366
• Shiphtur371
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
13h 11m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 12h
WardiTV European League
1d 18h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.