• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:44
CEST 03:44
KST 10:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection2Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June0Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th145Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League5
StarCraft 2
General
SurgeHack Recovery Experts Are Fast and Reliable. StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th My starcraft 2 changes The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
Tesagi Viewer - A new era of replay watching Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors? Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2617 users

Stalemate detection: Counter-example!

Blogs > KillerDucky
Post a Reply
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
December 22 2010 07:02 GMT
#1
I just won a game that would have been declared a stalemate in Patch 1.2!

Stalemates:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662
The game will end in a tie for all remaining players if no players have income, production, or destroyed any structures for three consecutive minutes.


See tl;dr at bottom.

http://replayfu.com/r/XpLPdr

2v2 TZvTT, we get into a base trade situation. We kill all the enemy CCs and they don't have enough to rebuild. We also have 7k minerals (yeah I suck but that made this situation possible!), but their standing army is bigger and I have to lift my buildings and fly away.

So they have 8 thors and we have nothing, they even kill my last CC before I realized I needed to lift everything.

I build another CC, it gets killed. I build yet another CC, this one lives and I lift it off to hide. I build a hidden Ghost Academy, land one of my hidden rax, add a tech lab, and pump 4 ghosts.

I greedily send all 4 in to take out his base, take out most of it before he thinks to lift. By now the 8 thors come back, and I split up the ghosts but lose 2. Now I'm trying to send 1 ghost at a time to kill the rest of the non-flying base, and also reduce thor numbers, while the other is hidden regaining cloak.

Eventually he finds both the ghosts in their hiding spots without enough energy. By now he is down to 4 thors. But I still have 3 hidden rax, and start landing one to build up groups of 11 marines (supply from floating CC) at a time. Build a group of 11, go out and reduce health on thors as much as possible.

Finally he figures where I'm doing the landing and camps. So I land the CC which is on the other side and build some SCVs. CC is camped by one of his buildings so he sees immediately and reacts, but I manage to escape one. By this time he is down to just 3 thors, and and maybe he saw me escape one of the SCVs. In anycase he finally decides to leave. GG!

----------------------------------
tl;dr
During the stalemate-like portion of the game, I needed to run ghosts away from Thors and recharge energy, then go in and snipe more buildings. There were times that more than 3 minutes went by without me destroying a building, especially when I was focusing on reducing Thor numbers instead of picking off buildings.


*
MarineKingPrime Forever!
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
December 22 2010 07:05 GMT
#2
Ye, I think they're going to catch more real games than stalemated ones with this. Would changing destroy buildings to deal damage to an enemy fix things?
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6267 Posts
December 22 2010 07:17 GMT
#3
I once played a game where I had a single starport left along with viking/banshees. I won by slowly denying expos with banshees while protecting my starport. I still would've won with the stalemate detection on but it would've put pressure on me. In my opinion, the stalemate detection should be more than 3 mins (e.g. 10 mins?) and changed to include damage to opponent units.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 07:34:18
December 22 2010 07:22 GMT
#4
That was a pretty funny game. Technically you should have won a long time before that since you could have been mining. So I like the idea of a draw forcing you to make decisions to not just "wait it out".

In chess there is a similar 50 move rule. If neither player has moved a pawn nor taken a piece or promoted a piece then it is a draw. This situation happens when like both players have 1 knight and 1 bishop or rook vs rook. I'm ok with the rule. Maybe extend it to 5 minutes.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 07:30:10
December 22 2010 07:30 GMT
#5
I think they should add the parameter of "no units have been killed in the last 3 minutes" as well.
Suptzs
Profile Joined July 2010
Switzerland48 Posts
December 22 2010 07:36 GMT
#6
Isn't there a parameter for "no minerals mined"?
At my signal unleash hell.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9109 Posts
December 22 2010 07:52 GMT
#7
On December 22 2010 16:30 Jonoman92 wrote:
I think they should add the parameter of "no units have been killed in the last 3 minutes" as well.



edit: Or maybe as suggested above, "no damage has been dealt in the last 3 minutes"
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
December 22 2010 07:54 GMT
#8
Sounds like a really good start for a stalemate detection scheme, except that i would say the players always have the ability to ask for a draw and if both players agree it's a draw, as well as each player being able to ignore draw requests temporarilly or permanently, as well as after at least 5 minutes and those other conditions being met it should automatically ask both players and if either one of them agrees it would be a draw. It seems a little unnecessary to make it an absolutely mandatory draw if both players feel like playing. One problem with counting unit exchanges would be that a player could save some of his workers after mining out and throw them at the opponent's static d one by one, every 5 minutes.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
December 22 2010 09:22 GMT
#9
Master Asia vs TTOne.

That is all. Nothing was destroyed for quite a while, before TTOne figured out he should just go for it. This epic epic epic game wouldn't have been possible in 1.2
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
December 22 2010 10:11 GMT
#10
Well problem is that terran has this screw you all option while other races are dead if they lose big fight as they cannot lift off.
Would you have left if he had guarded everything properly so you cannot land and produce stuff? Maybe, but there are people who definetly wouldnt and for that stalemate option does come in handy.

In short yes stalemate prevention can be detrimential, but in the end it does more good than harm. (On ladder at least)
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
December 22 2010 16:52 GMT
#11
On December 22 2010 16:22 darmousseh wrote:
That was a pretty funny game. Technically you should have won a long time before that since you could have been mining. So I like the idea of a draw forcing you to make decisions to not just "wait it out".

In chess there is a similar 50 move rule. If neither player has moved a pawn nor taken a piece or promoted a piece then it is a draw. This situation happens when like both players have 1 knight and 1 bishop or rook vs rook. I'm ok with the rule. Maybe extend it to 5 minutes.


I couldn't mine because he had a building following my CC, so when I landed it he would come chase it off.

Really I just thought it was an epic game and wanted to share it here. I think the new draw rule is ok, it would have just forced me to try to reset the timer making it more difficult. And if that made the game a draw, well I just didn't do enough to win.

MarineKingPrime Forever!
Zim23
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1681 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 18:14:50
December 22 2010 18:13 GMT
#12
I think what they're saying is that if you get into that position then it's a draw/stalemate, even if you can possibly win. They recognize that if the game went on long enough then someone can win, but they don't care, if it's going to take that long to win then it's just a stalemate. I don't necessarily agree with that personally, but I also think having a 2 hour ladder game because players are too stubborn to leave isn't exactly fun. I'm sure they'll change this rule eventually, but I get the idea behind it.
Do an arranged marriage if she's not completely minging, and don't worry about dancing, get a go-kart, cheers.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
December 22 2010 19:26 GMT
#13
one time i played a lost temple ladder game on bw
i killed them off and they floated to island and mass turret.
but i had to go to dinner with grandparents.. so i just afk in game
came back 4 hours later and the island turtler was massing bc's and just starting to attack.
it took me 5 minutes to mass wraith and rape his 4 hour bc efforts.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 142
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 5019
GuemChi 4125
Calm 1039
Artosis 660
NaDa 13
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
capcasts239
League of Legends
ProTech83
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 981
taco 496
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox228
Other Games
summit1g11490
Day[9].tv908
shahzam675
C9.Mang0569
JimRising 514
Maynarde119
ViBE42
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1346
BasetradeTV260
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta65
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv908
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 16m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
9h 16m
OSC
11h 16m
Maestros of the Game
13h 46m
Serral vs Percival
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
Replay Cast
22h 16m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 13h
Maestros of the Game
1d 13h
Clem vs Lambo
Zoun vs SKillous
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Solar vs Classic
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Grudge Match
2 days
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm
OSC
2 days
GSL
3 days
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.