• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:20
CEST 14:20
KST 21:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!29Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week5Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Starcraft2 player guess game is Coming~! How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [ASL22] Ro24 Group F KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [ASL22] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Replay Review Process - What do you do? Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7154 users

Stalemate detection: Counter-example!

Blogs > KillerDucky
Post a Reply
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
December 22 2010 07:02 GMT
#1
I just won a game that would have been declared a stalemate in Patch 1.2!

Stalemates:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662
The game will end in a tie for all remaining players if no players have income, production, or destroyed any structures for three consecutive minutes.


See tl;dr at bottom.

http://replayfu.com/r/XpLPdr

2v2 TZvTT, we get into a base trade situation. We kill all the enemy CCs and they don't have enough to rebuild. We also have 7k minerals (yeah I suck but that made this situation possible!), but their standing army is bigger and I have to lift my buildings and fly away.

So they have 8 thors and we have nothing, they even kill my last CC before I realized I needed to lift everything.

I build another CC, it gets killed. I build yet another CC, this one lives and I lift it off to hide. I build a hidden Ghost Academy, land one of my hidden rax, add a tech lab, and pump 4 ghosts.

I greedily send all 4 in to take out his base, take out most of it before he thinks to lift. By now the 8 thors come back, and I split up the ghosts but lose 2. Now I'm trying to send 1 ghost at a time to kill the rest of the non-flying base, and also reduce thor numbers, while the other is hidden regaining cloak.

Eventually he finds both the ghosts in their hiding spots without enough energy. By now he is down to 4 thors. But I still have 3 hidden rax, and start landing one to build up groups of 11 marines (supply from floating CC) at a time. Build a group of 11, go out and reduce health on thors as much as possible.

Finally he figures where I'm doing the landing and camps. So I land the CC which is on the other side and build some SCVs. CC is camped by one of his buildings so he sees immediately and reacts, but I manage to escape one. By this time he is down to just 3 thors, and and maybe he saw me escape one of the SCVs. In anycase he finally decides to leave. GG!

----------------------------------
tl;dr
During the stalemate-like portion of the game, I needed to run ghosts away from Thors and recharge energy, then go in and snipe more buildings. There were times that more than 3 minutes went by without me destroying a building, especially when I was focusing on reducing Thor numbers instead of picking off buildings.


*
MarineKingPrime Forever!
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
December 22 2010 07:05 GMT
#2
Ye, I think they're going to catch more real games than stalemated ones with this. Would changing destroy buildings to deal damage to an enemy fix things?
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6267 Posts
December 22 2010 07:17 GMT
#3
I once played a game where I had a single starport left along with viking/banshees. I won by slowly denying expos with banshees while protecting my starport. I still would've won with the stalemate detection on but it would've put pressure on me. In my opinion, the stalemate detection should be more than 3 mins (e.g. 10 mins?) and changed to include damage to opponent units.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 07:34:18
December 22 2010 07:22 GMT
#4
That was a pretty funny game. Technically you should have won a long time before that since you could have been mining. So I like the idea of a draw forcing you to make decisions to not just "wait it out".

In chess there is a similar 50 move rule. If neither player has moved a pawn nor taken a piece or promoted a piece then it is a draw. This situation happens when like both players have 1 knight and 1 bishop or rook vs rook. I'm ok with the rule. Maybe extend it to 5 minutes.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9110 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 07:30:10
December 22 2010 07:30 GMT
#5
I think they should add the parameter of "no units have been killed in the last 3 minutes" as well.
Suptzs
Profile Joined July 2010
Switzerland48 Posts
December 22 2010 07:36 GMT
#6
Isn't there a parameter for "no minerals mined"?
At my signal unleash hell.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9110 Posts
December 22 2010 07:52 GMT
#7
On December 22 2010 16:30 Jonoman92 wrote:
I think they should add the parameter of "no units have been killed in the last 3 minutes" as well.



edit: Or maybe as suggested above, "no damage has been dealt in the last 3 minutes"
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
December 22 2010 07:54 GMT
#8
Sounds like a really good start for a stalemate detection scheme, except that i would say the players always have the ability to ask for a draw and if both players agree it's a draw, as well as each player being able to ignore draw requests temporarilly or permanently, as well as after at least 5 minutes and those other conditions being met it should automatically ask both players and if either one of them agrees it would be a draw. It seems a little unnecessary to make it an absolutely mandatory draw if both players feel like playing. One problem with counting unit exchanges would be that a player could save some of his workers after mining out and throw them at the opponent's static d one by one, every 5 minutes.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
December 22 2010 09:22 GMT
#9
Master Asia vs TTOne.

That is all. Nothing was destroyed for quite a while, before TTOne figured out he should just go for it. This epic epic epic game wouldn't have been possible in 1.2
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
December 22 2010 10:11 GMT
#10
Well problem is that terran has this screw you all option while other races are dead if they lose big fight as they cannot lift off.
Would you have left if he had guarded everything properly so you cannot land and produce stuff? Maybe, but there are people who definetly wouldnt and for that stalemate option does come in handy.

In short yes stalemate prevention can be detrimential, but in the end it does more good than harm. (On ladder at least)
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
KillerDucky
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States498 Posts
December 22 2010 16:52 GMT
#11
On December 22 2010 16:22 darmousseh wrote:
That was a pretty funny game. Technically you should have won a long time before that since you could have been mining. So I like the idea of a draw forcing you to make decisions to not just "wait it out".

In chess there is a similar 50 move rule. If neither player has moved a pawn nor taken a piece or promoted a piece then it is a draw. This situation happens when like both players have 1 knight and 1 bishop or rook vs rook. I'm ok with the rule. Maybe extend it to 5 minutes.


I couldn't mine because he had a building following my CC, so when I landed it he would come chase it off.

Really I just thought it was an epic game and wanted to share it here. I think the new draw rule is ok, it would have just forced me to try to reset the timer making it more difficult. And if that made the game a draw, well I just didn't do enough to win.

MarineKingPrime Forever!
Zim23
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1681 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 18:14:50
December 22 2010 18:13 GMT
#12
I think what they're saying is that if you get into that position then it's a draw/stalemate, even if you can possibly win. They recognize that if the game went on long enough then someone can win, but they don't care, if it's going to take that long to win then it's just a stalemate. I don't necessarily agree with that personally, but I also think having a 2 hour ladder game because players are too stubborn to leave isn't exactly fun. I'm sure they'll change this rule eventually, but I get the idea behind it.
Do an arranged marriage if she's not completely minging, and don't worry about dancing, get a go-kart, cheers.
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
December 22 2010 19:26 GMT
#13
one time i played a lost temple ladder game on bw
i killed them off and they floated to island and mass turret.
but i had to go to dinner with grandparents.. so i just afk in game
came back 4 hours later and the island turtler was massing bc's and just starting to attack.
it took me 5 minutes to mass wraith and rape his 4 hour bc efforts.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Online Event
11:30
SHIN's Patch Show Matches
Classic vs ByuNLIVE!
herO vs Rogue
SHIN 117
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko329
SortOf 184
SHIN 117
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 61587
Calm 11096
firebathero 2307
Hyuk 769
Pusan 557
EffOrt 456
Light 265
Soma 251
Stork 193
Rush 191
[ Show more ]
Leta 189
Barracks 184
ZerO 140
Last 136
Snow 120
910 81
ToSsGirL 69
Killer 60
JYJ 58
Yoon 53
Mind 52
ggaemo 51
hero 50
Aegong 30
NotJumperer 27
Sacsri 25
Sexy 19
zelot 17
yabsab 10
Icarus 5
Dota 2
Dendi2356
syndereN219
Counter-Strike
olofmeister848
edward67
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King102
Other Games
B2W.Neo434
crisheroes428
hiko342
DeMusliM231
ToD135
elazer98
QueenE25
ZerO(Twitch)11
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV728
League of Legends
• Jankos1457
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
11h 41m
Escore
21h 41m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
22h 41m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 13h
GSL
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
GSL
4 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.