• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:35
CET 17:35
KST 01:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2303 users

SOTG Topics - TL Changes and relevance of opinion - Page 2

Blogs > babolatt
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
ShadowWolf
Profile Joined March 2010
United States197 Posts
December 16 2010 16:47 GMT
#21
On December 16 2010 22:03 shannn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 19:51 zatic wrote:
On December 16 2010 09:32 babolatt wrote:
First, there's this ongoing myth in any type of competitive environment, including Starcraft 2, that only the top pros have anything relevant to say about the game, and anyone who has a differing opinion is literally automatically wrong based purely on the fact that they aren't as good at the game. This is, at best, elitist and at worst a flat out incorrect assumption. This is the case across all competitive environments but it is even more valid in Starcraft 2 based on what it takes to be a top level player. There are many people who watch endless tournaments, analyze endless replays and spend more time spectating the sport than playing it. One could almost argue that people with that type of diverse information gathering actually have a more objective view of the Starcraft 2 landscape than a player who simply plays their race 12 hours a day and watches the odd tournament. This is obviously an oversimplification, but I believe the core argument to be sound.

Categorically disagree with this. The important part is that it doesn't even matter what is holding you back from playing at the top level. As long as you don't play there you can't have the same level of understanding about the game. Unfortunately, you also don't have the ability to realize that you don't have that understanding, because from your perspective everything about the game makes sense.

As long as you don't play at the pro level, you can't recognize the disparity from your grasp of the game vs someone's who does play at that level.

This. No matter how many games you watch. Unless you are a pro gamer or a pro in any sport or an ex-pro you cannot discuss specific details about a strategy or anything relevant without being a pro yourself in one time.

Because of details which can not be seen from a spectator view but by a players point of view.
In other words, why don't you see an unknown gamer casting/commentating at a professional tournament?


By and large, every level of pro-sports coaching is close to 70% filled with former players that at least played at a reasonably high level ( though often times a good portion of that 70% were players that had shortened careers or weren't very good ). That said, At a certain level, there are definitely people who can perform and understand the game far beyond their own skill level. Though rare, they can coach pretty well despite their own inability to execute at a level equal to their understanding. There are also a lot of very high level people who have no idea what they're doing. The things they do and why they do them are just instinctual and they are, more often than not, wrong when they discuss things outside of their specific wheelhouse. I'd rather not give examples of each type of person in our community because I think that's just inviting a flame war.

In short, there are, undeniably, individuals that can discuss and teach things at a level higher than their own execution. However, the real problem is that the there are a number of individuals who believe they are one of those types of people when they are not. I think as long as you approach your specific situation, until otherwise proven, with a "Here's what works at my level" and are open to criticism from people who probably know more than you then I don't see a real issue.

As proof of my above point:
+ Show Spoiler +

Bill Belichick is pretty universally considered one of the best coaches in the NFL right now in terms of what he has managed to accomplish with the talent he's been given. The highest level of football he ever played was Division III in College. John Gruden won a super bowl with Tampa Bay and never played football above Division II. Mike Shanahan won two super bowls with Denver and didn't really even play much College ball at all ( due to an extremely serious injury that nearly killed him ). Jeff Van Gundy and Stan Van Gundy both got to the NBA Finals as coaches, but neither competed at any reasonable level of basketball, though both played. There are some examples in the NHL, too, but I'm kinda tired of looking this up.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-09 04:37:55
February 09 2011 04:34 GMT
#22
Thing is if you make private forums for the pros, none's gonna contribute.
I think Tyler took that up actually. What are they gonna talk about?
They are all competing against eachother, so they are gonna be completely unwilling to contribute with new stuff.
There are gonna be some imbalance threads obviously, but that's about it I presume.

Edit:
On December 16 2010 10:22 hifriend wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 09:40 Plexa wrote:
Rest assured TL has been working on things for a long time I know a lot of you are new to TL but we work at an incredibly slow pace since when we want to change something or improve the site in some way, we absolutely want to do it right.

Kind of like ents, in an entmoot.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


wow this was the funniest I've seen for like seriously a month! still laughing :D
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group A, Day 3
WardiTV1182
TKL 209
Rex112
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko437
Reynor 393
Hui .218
TKL 209
Rex 112
LamboSC2 80
BRAT_OK 64
ProTech35
MaxPax 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 39894
Calm 4472
Rain 3240
GuemChi 768
BeSt 508
Stork 443
Light 172
Soma 139
Mind 82
Leta 74
[ Show more ]
Pusan 70
Barracks 37
scan(afreeca) 27
Terrorterran 23
Movie 23
yabsab 22
zelot 8
Noble 5
ivOry 4
Dewaltoss 3
Dota 2
Gorgc6800
qojqva2557
Dendi879
XcaliburYe76
Counter-Strike
allub316
oskar123
Heroes of the Storm
XaKoH 67
Other Games
singsing1707
FrodaN1339
DeMusliM292
Fuzer 271
Mlord249
KnowMe198
QueenE194
Liquid`VortiX105
ArmadaUGS89
Trikslyr54
fpsfer 2
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream14736
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream6273
Other Games
BasetradeTV122
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 17
• LUISG 9
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• FirePhoenix0
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2905
• WagamamaTV230
League of Legends
• Nemesis5189
• TFBlade840
Upcoming Events
BSL: GosuLeague
4h 25m
PiGosaur Cup
8h 25m
The PondCast
17h 25m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
RSL Revival
1d 14h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
4 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
IPSL
5 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.