• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:08
CEST 21:08
KST 04:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting1Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th60Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Changing from 12 to 8 is just asking for StarCraft TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue
Brood War
General
Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals VPN experiences Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Every Matchup's Top 5 Winrates (all ASLs & KSLs) BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2341 users

SOTG Topics - TL Changes and relevance of opinion - Page 2

Blogs > babolatt
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
ShadowWolf
Profile Joined March 2010
United States197 Posts
December 16 2010 16:47 GMT
#21
On December 16 2010 22:03 shannn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 19:51 zatic wrote:
On December 16 2010 09:32 babolatt wrote:
First, there's this ongoing myth in any type of competitive environment, including Starcraft 2, that only the top pros have anything relevant to say about the game, and anyone who has a differing opinion is literally automatically wrong based purely on the fact that they aren't as good at the game. This is, at best, elitist and at worst a flat out incorrect assumption. This is the case across all competitive environments but it is even more valid in Starcraft 2 based on what it takes to be a top level player. There are many people who watch endless tournaments, analyze endless replays and spend more time spectating the sport than playing it. One could almost argue that people with that type of diverse information gathering actually have a more objective view of the Starcraft 2 landscape than a player who simply plays their race 12 hours a day and watches the odd tournament. This is obviously an oversimplification, but I believe the core argument to be sound.

Categorically disagree with this. The important part is that it doesn't even matter what is holding you back from playing at the top level. As long as you don't play there you can't have the same level of understanding about the game. Unfortunately, you also don't have the ability to realize that you don't have that understanding, because from your perspective everything about the game makes sense.

As long as you don't play at the pro level, you can't recognize the disparity from your grasp of the game vs someone's who does play at that level.

This. No matter how many games you watch. Unless you are a pro gamer or a pro in any sport or an ex-pro you cannot discuss specific details about a strategy or anything relevant without being a pro yourself in one time.

Because of details which can not be seen from a spectator view but by a players point of view.
In other words, why don't you see an unknown gamer casting/commentating at a professional tournament?


By and large, every level of pro-sports coaching is close to 70% filled with former players that at least played at a reasonably high level ( though often times a good portion of that 70% were players that had shortened careers or weren't very good ). That said, At a certain level, there are definitely people who can perform and understand the game far beyond their own skill level. Though rare, they can coach pretty well despite their own inability to execute at a level equal to their understanding. There are also a lot of very high level people who have no idea what they're doing. The things they do and why they do them are just instinctual and they are, more often than not, wrong when they discuss things outside of their specific wheelhouse. I'd rather not give examples of each type of person in our community because I think that's just inviting a flame war.

In short, there are, undeniably, individuals that can discuss and teach things at a level higher than their own execution. However, the real problem is that the there are a number of individuals who believe they are one of those types of people when they are not. I think as long as you approach your specific situation, until otherwise proven, with a "Here's what works at my level" and are open to criticism from people who probably know more than you then I don't see a real issue.

As proof of my above point:
+ Show Spoiler +

Bill Belichick is pretty universally considered one of the best coaches in the NFL right now in terms of what he has managed to accomplish with the talent he's been given. The highest level of football he ever played was Division III in College. John Gruden won a super bowl with Tampa Bay and never played football above Division II. Mike Shanahan won two super bowls with Denver and didn't really even play much College ball at all ( due to an extremely serious injury that nearly killed him ). Jeff Van Gundy and Stan Van Gundy both got to the NBA Finals as coaches, but neither competed at any reasonable level of basketball, though both played. There are some examples in the NHL, too, but I'm kinda tired of looking this up.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-09 04:37:55
February 09 2011 04:34 GMT
#22
Thing is if you make private forums for the pros, none's gonna contribute.
I think Tyler took that up actually. What are they gonna talk about?
They are all competing against eachother, so they are gonna be completely unwilling to contribute with new stuff.
There are gonna be some imbalance threads obviously, but that's about it I presume.

Edit:
On December 16 2010 10:22 hifriend wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 09:40 Plexa wrote:
Rest assured TL has been working on things for a long time I know a lot of you are new to TL but we work at an incredibly slow pace since when we want to change something or improve the site in some way, we absolutely want to do it right.

Kind of like ents, in an entmoot.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


wow this was the funniest I've seen for like seriously a month! still laughing :D
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1457
UpATreeSC 207
IndyStarCraft 151
ZombieGrub128
BRAT_OK 104
MindelVK 43
EmSc Tv 17
JuggernautJason16
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 500
Dewaltoss 105
Zeus 93
Rock 30
Sacsri 15
GoRush 14
soO 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Dota 2
Gorgc5842
qojqva1706
Counter-Strike
fl0m1841
ScreaM1732
byalli913
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King53
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu22
Other Games
Grubby4735
summit1g2156
B2W.Neo545
QueenE158
C9.Mang0149
KnowMe119
XaKoH 116
Trikslyr52
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL227
Other Games
BasetradeTV198
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 17
EmSc2Tv 17
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• FirePhoenix0
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota246
League of Legends
• TFBlade1047
• Stunt162
Other Games
• WagamamaTV289
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 52m
RSL Revival
11h 52m
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
Maestros of the Game
15h 52m
SKillous vs Ryung
Solar vs Percival
Maru vs sOs
Lambo vs Arrogfire
IPSL
20h 52m
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
BSL
23h 52m
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
1d 4h
RSL Revival
1d 11h
Maestros of the Game
1d 17h
SHIN vs Nicoract
Rogue vs Gerald
ByuN vs Shameless
Cure vs TriGGeR
OSC
1d 17h
IPSL
1d 20h
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 23h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.