• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:40
CEST 08:40
KST 15:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 237ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion5BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion5Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026 MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool
Tourneys
[ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Summer Games Done Quick 2026! General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5907 users

Meta-Game > Balance

Blogs > terr0r
Post a Reply
terr0r
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States90 Posts
November 29 2010 21:28 GMT
#1
I'm currently sitting around 1700 in Diamond and have racked up many many games since Beta. I will not dare say I am a definitive source of SC information or that I know a ton more than anyone else. I will however take a moment to expand on a thought that's been recurring to me.

Yes, I play Terran, since the days of BW I was always more comfortable with Terran mechanics. As the game has evolved I've noticed more and more that people are not willing to take responsibility for their own choices, instead blaming balance. Most commonly, in my experience, this happens with Zerg enemies.

I will attempt here, to explain my views on TvZ/ZvT meta-gaming and how it is impacting the game right now for players across most levels.

1) Why do so many Zergs have trouble on ladders?

In one sentence I can confidently say that most Zerg are NOT playing to the strength of their race. Since the most recent balance patch Zergs are going more heavily into Roach play, usually using other units to support them.

A lot of my games end simply because Zergs never move beyond that point. There is no tech-switch from it. There is no heavy usage of additional support units (baneling, speedling, infestor). There is nothing but upgrades, expos and continuous Roach+whatever that they have been doing since 5 minutes into the game.

The wins I see usually come from adding in upgrades, adding tank support and adding Medivacs into what was initially a strong but simple MM combo.

2) What should Zergs be doing differently? (Again just my experience)
The main strength of Zerg lies in the ability to completely switch tech-trees very often. A zerg can go from a maxed army of roach/ling to a strong army of muta/bane or a hive unit with speedling support/banes. Really the strength of the race itself lies in the versatility of knowing you can change what you're doing VERY quickly and there is really very little Terran can do to keep pace.

As Zerg meta-game and mechanics evolve I see more heavy usage of Nydus being helpful. Korean Zergs are already getting overlord speed quickly so we could see more Terran-style drops of 2-3 ovies dropping instead of those "doom drops" we tend to see. I don't know why, but Zerg has seemed to flow away from Infestor + Hydralisk, which is the strongest combo you can get pre-hive vs an MMM army.

Another potent combination/switch which gives me a huge headache is going from Boordlord to Ultralisk. Once Zerg shows BLs the Terran is almost forced to focus on getting a bunch of Vikings to deal with this. The BLs do a good amount of damage to the ground army and while the Vikings are cleaning up, Ultras are made to counter Terrans new composition.

3) Hatch first, is it REALLY viable?

Do you even watch GSL/pro games? If you are a Zerg and go hatch before pool, please don't be mad when I 2 rax push it. I will do this almost 100% of the time. Now instead of building your economy you are forced to defend this push, giving me time to expand and get infrastructure going.

It's a win-win for me even if I don't do massive damage because you've been making units instead of drones. The early hatch advantage has just been tossed out the window and by the time you get saturation I will have my expo ready and we are back to square 1 only I have been building units and workers, leaving me a slight lead.

If you are going to go hatch first against a competent Terran you should expect pressure, otherwise you are basically being given a free lead.

4) Zerg is absolutely weaker in the early game but much stronger in late-game.

This is one fact I cannot express enough. Once a Zerg gets mid to late game without taking a huge hit to econ/tech they should almost always be ahead.

Most Terrans cannot tech-switch quick enough to deal with all the possibilities which can come. Most Terrans cannot rebuild their ranks as quickly as Zerg either. This means you can basically toss entire armies away as long as you do good army damage with them. If you have 4+ hatcheries and queens for injecting larvae, you can rebuild your forces much faster than most. Use this advantage and show some aggression.

Maybe I am completely wrong on these points or a single point within. I welcome any input on this post and left it in blog just because I am growing somewhat tired of being told I'm not playing well, I'm just using the EZ race.

**
Do or do not, there is no try. Yoda
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
November 29 2010 23:04 GMT
#2
Sick of hearing about how zergs need to "lol tech switch more". That's the kind of stuff people were saying before 1.1.2 when it was impossible to win ZvT. Zerg's strength has never been it's ability to tech switch, go watch 90% of BW/SC2 Zerg games. You don't see people going muta/ling/bane then all of a sudden... WOAH HERE'S PURE ROACH/HYDRA. You don't see any of that because mid/late game armies from P/T don't have some magic unit comp that counters them. The other reason, you need lots of expensive upgrades for zerg units to effectively fight. You can't just randomly decide to switch to hydra or muta because those units require upgrades upgrades to be worth their cost.

There's a reason most of the zerg games you see consist of a player heavily investing in 2 or maybe 3 units and focusing their evo/spire upgrades on those units specifically. If a zerg has been going mutalingbane and upgrading air attack, ground armor and melee attack, switching to roach with no ranged attack ups/burrow is going to be a dumb idea 90% of the time.

The only time IMO where this is consistently a good idea is the broodlord->ultra switch, because unlike the other situations, broods actually force T to make a unit that isn't useful against the unit you are switching too.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Johnranger-123
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United Kingdom341 Posts
November 29 2010 23:32 GMT
#3
Yeah tech switches are only good when you force your opponent to make a unit that completely sucks against the unit your gonna tech switch to. say you tried from muta>roach. I suppose you can argue you make the T build more thors, so what? thors are still good. its not like the T's army suddenly becoems worthless.
But I do agree that to many zergs rush for a baneling bust or something and should play WAY more conseventantly where they can get to late and where zerg owns ^^
Enervate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1769 Posts
November 29 2010 23:42 GMT
#4
Anyone blaming balance at the 1700 point range is outright wrong and does not know what they are talking about. People will always blame balance for their losses. Just ignore them and laugh to yourself at how much they suck.
shindigs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4795 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 23:53:41
November 29 2010 23:51 GMT
#5
Sort of getting tired of other races telling other races how to play =(

EDIT: Here's some more content addressing parts of your issue (not all).

IMO tech switching isn't a key answer since all the races don't struggle with tech switching as they did in BW, so the flexibility of tech switching isn't a super strong aspect of Zerg. I completely disagree when you say Zerg is strongest late game, and this statement actually just depends on how the situation of the game flows. In terms of pure unit composition - Zerg is actually pretty terrible compared to other races late game.
Photographer@shindags || twitch.tv/shindigs
Seide
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States831 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 01:04:49
November 30 2010 00:28 GMT
#6
There is no such thing as 100% balance. Learn to flow with how the game flows, and play with what the game gives you.

Speculating on what could be better about your race will not make you a better player. Learning to take what you are given, and maximizing the strength of what you have infront of you is what makes a player great. Thats why we love players who can seemingly make something out of nothing. This is also why me love MacGyver.

Blaming balance serves when you lose serves only 1 purpose: protecting your own ego. It doesn't matter why you lost. Terran rolled over you hatch first with his mass marine? Kill all your workers with his banshees? Dont blame imba, both those situations are perfectly preventable. Look at your game and see how it could of been prevented.

There is never a point in the game where a race is so weak that they simply can't ever win. They might have a harder time at some points or in certain situations, but thats just a result of having 3 races with distinct qualities and units.

No race is straight up better than another, they each have their situational strengths and weaknesses, being good means not only knowing the game and having mood macro, but knowing how to steer a particular game into those situations where your race shines, while avoiding getting trapped in a situation where you are at a disadvantage.

The fact that Zerg is having trouble hatch first vs 2 racks is a result of Terrans doing that. A good terran knows, if zerg goes hatch first, one of the best ways to steer the game into a advantageous place for them is to apply early agression from 2-3 racks. In this case Zerg is forced to build units, preventing them from quickly building that beastly economy that will carry them into the mid/late game.
One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3168
Mong 182
Leta 143
Pusan 112
Mind 47
NaDa 28
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm282
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift2304
JimRising 944
Counter-Strike
summit1g8854
Other Games
WinterStarcraft634
UpATreeSC47
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick25453
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota240
League of Legends
• Jankos1560
• HappyZerGling119
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
2h 20m
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 20m
IPSL
9h 20m
Bonyth vs Hawk
GSL
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.