• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:41
CEST 01:41
KST 08:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection3Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June0Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
My starcraft 2 changes StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ 14k games analyzed: Cross Spawn Nexus first good? Tesagi Viewer - A new era of replay watching VPN experiences
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors? Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 24842 users

Meta-Game > Balance

Blogs > terr0r
Post a Reply
terr0r
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States90 Posts
November 29 2010 21:28 GMT
#1
I'm currently sitting around 1700 in Diamond and have racked up many many games since Beta. I will not dare say I am a definitive source of SC information or that I know a ton more than anyone else. I will however take a moment to expand on a thought that's been recurring to me.

Yes, I play Terran, since the days of BW I was always more comfortable with Terran mechanics. As the game has evolved I've noticed more and more that people are not willing to take responsibility for their own choices, instead blaming balance. Most commonly, in my experience, this happens with Zerg enemies.

I will attempt here, to explain my views on TvZ/ZvT meta-gaming and how it is impacting the game right now for players across most levels.

1) Why do so many Zergs have trouble on ladders?

In one sentence I can confidently say that most Zerg are NOT playing to the strength of their race. Since the most recent balance patch Zergs are going more heavily into Roach play, usually using other units to support them.

A lot of my games end simply because Zergs never move beyond that point. There is no tech-switch from it. There is no heavy usage of additional support units (baneling, speedling, infestor). There is nothing but upgrades, expos and continuous Roach+whatever that they have been doing since 5 minutes into the game.

The wins I see usually come from adding in upgrades, adding tank support and adding Medivacs into what was initially a strong but simple MM combo.

2) What should Zergs be doing differently? (Again just my experience)
The main strength of Zerg lies in the ability to completely switch tech-trees very often. A zerg can go from a maxed army of roach/ling to a strong army of muta/bane or a hive unit with speedling support/banes. Really the strength of the race itself lies in the versatility of knowing you can change what you're doing VERY quickly and there is really very little Terran can do to keep pace.

As Zerg meta-game and mechanics evolve I see more heavy usage of Nydus being helpful. Korean Zergs are already getting overlord speed quickly so we could see more Terran-style drops of 2-3 ovies dropping instead of those "doom drops" we tend to see. I don't know why, but Zerg has seemed to flow away from Infestor + Hydralisk, which is the strongest combo you can get pre-hive vs an MMM army.

Another potent combination/switch which gives me a huge headache is going from Boordlord to Ultralisk. Once Zerg shows BLs the Terran is almost forced to focus on getting a bunch of Vikings to deal with this. The BLs do a good amount of damage to the ground army and while the Vikings are cleaning up, Ultras are made to counter Terrans new composition.

3) Hatch first, is it REALLY viable?

Do you even watch GSL/pro games? If you are a Zerg and go hatch before pool, please don't be mad when I 2 rax push it. I will do this almost 100% of the time. Now instead of building your economy you are forced to defend this push, giving me time to expand and get infrastructure going.

It's a win-win for me even if I don't do massive damage because you've been making units instead of drones. The early hatch advantage has just been tossed out the window and by the time you get saturation I will have my expo ready and we are back to square 1 only I have been building units and workers, leaving me a slight lead.

If you are going to go hatch first against a competent Terran you should expect pressure, otherwise you are basically being given a free lead.

4) Zerg is absolutely weaker in the early game but much stronger in late-game.

This is one fact I cannot express enough. Once a Zerg gets mid to late game without taking a huge hit to econ/tech they should almost always be ahead.

Most Terrans cannot tech-switch quick enough to deal with all the possibilities which can come. Most Terrans cannot rebuild their ranks as quickly as Zerg either. This means you can basically toss entire armies away as long as you do good army damage with them. If you have 4+ hatcheries and queens for injecting larvae, you can rebuild your forces much faster than most. Use this advantage and show some aggression.

Maybe I am completely wrong on these points or a single point within. I welcome any input on this post and left it in blog just because I am growing somewhat tired of being told I'm not playing well, I'm just using the EZ race.

**
Do or do not, there is no try. Yoda
sixghost
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2096 Posts
November 29 2010 23:04 GMT
#2
Sick of hearing about how zergs need to "lol tech switch more". That's the kind of stuff people were saying before 1.1.2 when it was impossible to win ZvT. Zerg's strength has never been it's ability to tech switch, go watch 90% of BW/SC2 Zerg games. You don't see people going muta/ling/bane then all of a sudden... WOAH HERE'S PURE ROACH/HYDRA. You don't see any of that because mid/late game armies from P/T don't have some magic unit comp that counters them. The other reason, you need lots of expensive upgrades for zerg units to effectively fight. You can't just randomly decide to switch to hydra or muta because those units require upgrades upgrades to be worth their cost.

There's a reason most of the zerg games you see consist of a player heavily investing in 2 or maybe 3 units and focusing their evo/spire upgrades on those units specifically. If a zerg has been going mutalingbane and upgrading air attack, ground armor and melee attack, switching to roach with no ranged attack ups/burrow is going to be a dumb idea 90% of the time.

The only time IMO where this is consistently a good idea is the broodlord->ultra switch, because unlike the other situations, broods actually force T to make a unit that isn't useful against the unit you are switching too.
mG.sixghost @ iCCup || One ling, two ling, three ling, four... Camp four gas, then ultra-whore . -Saracen
Johnranger-123
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United Kingdom341 Posts
November 29 2010 23:32 GMT
#3
Yeah tech switches are only good when you force your opponent to make a unit that completely sucks against the unit your gonna tech switch to. say you tried from muta>roach. I suppose you can argue you make the T build more thors, so what? thors are still good. its not like the T's army suddenly becoems worthless.
But I do agree that to many zergs rush for a baneling bust or something and should play WAY more conseventantly where they can get to late and where zerg owns ^^
Enervate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1769 Posts
November 29 2010 23:42 GMT
#4
Anyone blaming balance at the 1700 point range is outright wrong and does not know what they are talking about. People will always blame balance for their losses. Just ignore them and laugh to yourself at how much they suck.
shindigs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4795 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-29 23:53:41
November 29 2010 23:51 GMT
#5
Sort of getting tired of other races telling other races how to play =(

EDIT: Here's some more content addressing parts of your issue (not all).

IMO tech switching isn't a key answer since all the races don't struggle with tech switching as they did in BW, so the flexibility of tech switching isn't a super strong aspect of Zerg. I completely disagree when you say Zerg is strongest late game, and this statement actually just depends on how the situation of the game flows. In terms of pure unit composition - Zerg is actually pretty terrible compared to other races late game.
Photographer@shindags || twitch.tv/shindigs
Seide
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States831 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-30 01:04:49
November 30 2010 00:28 GMT
#6
There is no such thing as 100% balance. Learn to flow with how the game flows, and play with what the game gives you.

Speculating on what could be better about your race will not make you a better player. Learning to take what you are given, and maximizing the strength of what you have infront of you is what makes a player great. Thats why we love players who can seemingly make something out of nothing. This is also why me love MacGyver.

Blaming balance serves when you lose serves only 1 purpose: protecting your own ego. It doesn't matter why you lost. Terran rolled over you hatch first with his mass marine? Kill all your workers with his banshees? Dont blame imba, both those situations are perfectly preventable. Look at your game and see how it could of been prevented.

There is never a point in the game where a race is so weak that they simply can't ever win. They might have a harder time at some points or in certain situations, but thats just a result of having 3 races with distinct qualities and units.

No race is straight up better than another, they each have their situational strengths and weaknesses, being good means not only knowing the game and having mood macro, but knowing how to steer a particular game into those situations where your race shines, while avoiding getting trapped in a situation where you are at a disadvantage.

The fact that Zerg is having trouble hatch first vs 2 racks is a result of Terrans doing that. A good terran knows, if zerg goes hatch first, one of the best ways to steer the game into a advantageous place for them is to apply early agression from 2-3 racks. In this case Zerg is forced to build units, preventing them from quickly building that beastly economy that will carry them into the mid/late game.
One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
21:30
GSL Ro8 Group B Replay Cast
Maru vs SHIN
Rogue vs Zoun
PiGStarcraft678
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft678
ProTech85
JuggernautJason77
Codebar 70
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3371
NaDa 20
League of Legends
Doublelift3783
JimRising 411
Other Games
summit1g8893
FrodaN2216
shahzam634
C9.Mang0200
KnowMe117
ViBE37
PPMD19
fpsfer 2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick697
BasetradeTV170
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
19m
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
19m
Replay Cast
9h 19m
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15h 19m
Grudge Match
16h 19m
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm
OSC
21h 19m
MaxPax vs YoungYakov
Krystianer vs Shameless
GgMaChine vs Creature
LetaleX vs MiniZergUA
ReBellioN vs TBD
ArT vs HiGhDrA
Nicoract vs Azura
GSL
1d 8h
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
1d 13h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 15h
BSL
1d 19h
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.