• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:56
CEST 08:56
KST 15:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview22Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates6GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Cheeseadelphia 2025 - Open Bracket LAN! $25,000+ WardiTV 2025 Series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates I made an ASL quiz
Tourneys
[BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET [ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Monster Hunter Wilds
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Research study on team perfo…
TrAiDoS
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 19604 users

[DoB] The Magic of Coaching

Blogs > Peanutsc
Post a Reply
Peanutsc
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States277 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 23:00:41
November 21 2010 22:13 GMT
#1
Hi TL!

I've been laddering a lot lately, so let's get the statistics down and then discuss the dramatic flashes of insight I've been having in Silver league.

Day: Wednesday, November 17th
Wins/Total: 3/8 [1 win due to disconnect before start screen]
Starting Rank: 23
Ending Rank: 23
Highest Rank: 23
Lowest Rank: 24
Note: Second day laddering in silver league

Day: Thursday, November 18th
Wins/Total: 7/10
Starting Rank: 23
Ending Rank: 20
Highest Rank: 20
Lowest Rank: 23
Notes: First day of intensive coaching

Day: Friday, November 19th
Wins/Total: 9/17
Starting Rank: 20
Ending Rank: 15
Highest Rank: 15
Lowest rank: 20
Notes: One win due to an early game disconnect by opponent

[Yesterday (Saturday) was spent laddering, but it was all 2v2s with Temporal, and I'm not keeping track of those stats]

Wins/Total matchups (as Terran) vs.:
Zerg: 8/10
Protoss: 6/14
Terran: 3/9
Notes: These stats don't include the 2 disconnects

Observations
- I am basically going 3 rax every game. It's been working okay so far, especially against Zerg, but I think I'm getting to the point where I'll need to learn some race-specific builds and/or get much better at micro (bio ball against banelings, for example).
- TvZ is clearly my best matchup. However, I think this is more because at this skill level zerg players don't really know how to harass or specifically counter 3 rax. I do tend to be more aggressive vs. zerg about denying expansions, though, which has helped.

The Coaching Story
I was down in the dumps Thursday night because I'd lost 7 out of my last 10 games (2 games that night, 5 the night before). My friend Kaiz had been watching my replays and giving me tips, but it just didn't seem like it was helping as much as it should've. Kaiz wasn't around right then for me to gripe to, so instead I messaged Beast, a 1700 diamond player I'd met through obsing games where he and Kaiz battled it out. He told me I just needed to focus on not queuing up units, not getting supply blocked, and continuously making SCVs. But then he reconsidered and asked if I used skype.

Admittedly, I was a little bit nervous. It's a lot easier for me to handle criticism, bm, etc. from someone I don't know via the sterility of text. The voice is a powerful instrument of emotional communication, and in a one-on-one situation it's much more difficult to react with a cool head. But I wanted to get better, faster, and I knew Kaiz well enough to trust that any friend of his would be a friend of mine.

When we started talking on skype, I was in a ladder game against a protoss on Scrap Station. I found myself narrating what I was doing in the game to Beast, who listened patiently.

"Ok, building a tech lab ... third barracks almost done ... dammit forgot to build an SCV ... researching stim ... ugh supply blocked! ... stim's done but not +1 weapons - maybe I should push out ..."

"No, your window for that passed already. You should wait until +1 is done," he said calmly.

The part of me that wasn't worrying about getting supply blocked and not queuing units was astonished. How did he know what was going on? Then I realized it was probably a stupid question for a 1700 diamond.

I ended up losing that game and felt miserable, but Beast didn't dwell on it. By then Kaiz was on, and Beast started a game to pit me against him. My misery intensified - there was no way I could win against Kaiz, and I hated TvT.

After I lost, Beast was kind but firm. "I knew I was gonna lose," I said quietly.

"Well, there's your first mistake."

Next he had me play against Hard and Very Hard AI while he ran me through a slightly different 3 rax opening: 10 depot, 12 barracks, 13 gas, 15 orbital. At one point I slipped up and built my first rax at 11, per my past build.

"No! We're starting over." He left the game, and I sheepishly left as well.

He ran me through a more structured way of building units. "Hit 5s, then 3aadd. That's a round. Build a depot. Now MULE. Do another round. Don't forget to keep doing rounds while you're attacking." It was a much saner way of creating a functioning military-industrial economy than the way I'd been doing it before. It made so much sense. It was like an epiphany.

After one unfortunate game where the AI blindly countered my 3 rax with a 3 rax of its own, I was winning handily. I marveled at the newfound efficiency of my play and delighted in the hordes of units I found at my base after my first wave of attackers had all died.

Finally, Beast and I played a 2v2 where I died about 3/4 of the way through and he mopped up to win. He told me to watch the replay from his perspective. I did, and the constant lurching between units, buildings, and my base almost made me seasick. He was everywhere all the time! I was blown away.

Beast had to leave for work, and so with newfound confidence I ventured out to ladder again. I sent my first win - against zerg on Lost Temple - to Kaiz for analysis. "You've definitely gotten better," he said. "I hate to say this, but that win was as much about the zerg making stupid mistakes as you playing better." Undaunted, I sent him my next two wins.

"Wow, those were really good games."

I ended the night on a 7-game win streak, finishing with a triumphant win against protoss on Blistering Sands. The replay is below.

Miser vs Peanut on Blistering Sands

On Friday I woke up unexpectedly at 7am because Sprint was calling me to remind me to pay my phone bill. Unable to go back to sleep, I signed on to battlenet and found Kaiz awake, which was highly unusual (he often doesn't get out of bed until the afternoon).

"Why are you up?" I asked.

"I was watching a bunch of replays last night, trying to calculate new build orders, and then I watched all of your replays, and now the sun's out."

I told him about Beast putting me through my paces the night before, and how he made me spam APM at the beginning of the game to warm up - something that Kaiz had discouraged before.

"Yeah, it doesn't do anything for me. [Beast] and I were talking about your APM last night. Next, I want you to practice stutter-stepping with your marines and marauders - you clearly have the capability to do it, and it makes your units last that much longer."

I felt blessed. Two very intelligent, skilled, and dedicated StarCraft players were collaborating to help me become a better player. It's a new adventure I'm very excited about pursuing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For those who made it this far, check out the new VODs that David aka X has uploaded of a recent game of mine (note that this was pre-coaching magic).






Shoutout to Temporal for being very graceful about the fact that I'm currently better than he is at StarCraft. Shoutout to Kaiz and Beast, who are amazing coaches. And also thanks to VT.Awesome, who gave me a chance to demonstrate my newly-honed skills in a game against her where she was offracing as zerg. She won, but it was pretty close.


EDIT: A funny picture (multiple exchanges edited in for conciseness).

[image loading]

***
"You only get one life on this earth, Tasteless, and if you're not spending the majority of it playing StarCraft, I would argue that it might be wasted." "I couldn't agree more, Artosis."
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
November 21 2010 22:21 GMT
#2
Good coaching helps so much. Even having somebody you can bounce strategies or send replays to on a regular basis helps alot.

Glad to hear things are going well.
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
November 21 2010 22:22 GMT
#3
I wish all silver leaguers would post stuff like this in TL.net blogs. Great content!
why so 진지해?
diggurd
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Norway346 Posts
November 21 2010 22:33 GMT
#4
you're getting there. if you keep this up you'll be diamond tomorrow
the interesting thing about this quote is that youll only understand whats interesting when youre done reading it. ǝɯıʇ ɹn ƃuıʇsɐʍ n ǝɹɐ ʎɥʍ
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19026 Posts
November 21 2010 22:38 GMT
#5
Good blog. But you really don't need to worry about diversifying your build library that much in Silver. Having one build for each matchup that you can execute to perfection is better than having a bunch of builds you kinda know. Learning some micro will be helpful, but don't go overboard. You must always remember to macro.

Anyway, coaching is helpful if you get it from good people, or at least knowledgeable people. Good luck with your training.
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Zeroes
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1102 Posts
November 21 2010 23:50 GMT
#6
I think there is still a lot you can improve for your 3 rax

Good blog post!
Check out my SC Lan pics Here: http://picasaweb.google.com/bunk.habit
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
November 22 2010 00:02 GMT
#7
Yeah I think like tofucake was saying, just looking at a few replays and casts, build orders aren't important in silver league, don't worry about having some 3 racks timing or 1-1-1 or any of that. Never stop building scv's, but don't queue, take expansions in a safe and smart way, keep up production of your army at all times, and keep supply in check. The absolute basics of macro mechanics like that will get you to diamond, not trying to think of these builds just yet.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-22 04:38:18
November 22 2010 04:37 GMT
#8
On November 22 2010 07:38 tofucake wrote:
Good blog. But you really don't need to worry about diversifying your build library that much in Silver. Having one build for each matchup that you can execute to perfection is better than having a bunch of builds you kinda know. Learning some micro will be helpful, but don't go overboard. You must always remember to macro.

Anyway, coaching is helpful if you get it from good people, or at least knowledgeable people. Good luck with your training.

Or, if you're like me, you have one opening for every matchup, and diversify at the ~40 food mark. And are still in diamond.

By that I mean, I have only 1 opening. TvT, TvP, TvZ, and TvR do the same thing.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Peanutsc
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States277 Posts
November 22 2010 06:02 GMT
#9
Thanks for the tips, guys! I'll keep working on my 3rax .
"You only get one life on this earth, Tasteless, and if you're not spending the majority of it playing StarCraft, I would argue that it might be wasted." "I couldn't agree more, Artosis."
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
November 23 2010 14:40 GMT
#10
I think I'm going to start following your blog since you put so much effort into it.

Also like that the zerg in your picture was going to "report" you when he was the one going all X-17 on you.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
November 23 2010 15:24 GMT
#11
He ran me through a more structured way of building units. "Hit 5s, then 3aadd. That's a round. Build a depot. Now MULE. Do another round. Don't forget to keep doing rounds while you're attacking." It was a much saner way of creating a functioning military-industrial economy than the way I'd been doing it before. It made so much sense. It was like an epiphany.


I realized this after I watched day[9]'s 'mental checklist' daily, he explained this concept in depth. watch it if you havent yet!
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #15
ArT vs ReBellioNLIVE!
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
00:00
StarCraft Evolution League #12
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 266
ProTech80
EnDerr 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2920
PianO 1037
TY 507
Dewaltoss 142
Snow 133
Nal_rA 129
sorry 113
Leta 69
Hm[arnc] 10
Sacsri 9
[ Show more ]
Noble 8
Dota 2
Fuzer 123
League of Legends
JimRising 556
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1646
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0768
Other Games
summit1g4431
Mew2King201
NotJumperer1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick870
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream1
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1132
• Stunt440
Other Games
• Scarra1406
Upcoming Events
Bellum Gens Elite
3h 4m
WardiTV Invitational
7h 4m
Creator vs Jumy
ByuN vs Cure
Cure vs Jumy
ByuN vs Creator
Creator vs Cure
ByuN vs Jumy
BSL 2v2 ProLeague
12h 4m
Replay Cast
17h 4m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 3h
SC Evo League
1d 5h
Bellum Gens Elite
1d 5h
Fire Grow Cup
1d 8h
CSO Contender
1d 10h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 11h
StRyKeR vs MadiNho
Cross vs UltrA
TT1 vs JDConan
Bonyth vs Sziky
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
1d 17h
SOOP Global
1d 20h
Creator vs Rogue
Cure vs Classic
SOOP
2 days
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
AllThingsProtoss
2 days
Fire Grow Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
herO vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
NC Random Cup
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.