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This is not a regular problem I think at least, this is more that I search the advice of TL.. What to do!
So this is the story:
One day a good looking girl added me on facebook, she knew my mother so added me. We started talking on fb and I got her number right away. After some days we met for the first time, and had a blast. A good fit I would say.
Then she added me on msn. We started talking sooo much, every fucking day for like 2-3 hours.. Then one day I asked her if she wansts to go with me to practise ( playing basketball). And she agreed, we played some basket and had a great time. There were this akward moment when we were about to say good bye, like the moment you should kiss the girl, but she got nervious and pulled away, so the next time we met I just did it.
She got nervious there, but that actually helped me a lot, because the next time we talked, she said that she really liked me and so on.
And now the messed up part starts....
I ask her out a friday ( I'm 18 she's 17), she said yeah, but when I called her, she had fell asleep.....?
Ok, shit happens, that can happen to everbody. Then I asked her out again, and she said yeah again. Told me how much she looked forward to see me and how much she missed me.
The day came where we were supposed to go out. I go to work, the 7 hours went by so fucking slow coz I could bearly wait to see her, and then I call her.... She does not pick up.... Call her 30 min later and she does not answer, and did the same a 3rd time.
I go where we were supposed to meet and wait for 20 min.. Maybe her phone is broken or she forgot it (yeye I'm naive). I got pissed when she didn't show up, so I went and took some beer...
When I came home, with alcohol in my blood and was extremly dissapointed that she didn't show, I saw she wrote on msn : " I can not come today nor tomorrow due to school work "... COMEONE! This is 100% a dodge, I think
So my question is.. What should I do ? Just wait for her to contact me, or should I contact her... Ask her wtf is going on, or just ignore it? What should I do TL? I've gotten so many different answers in RL, so I wanna check here aswell..
Thanks for you're help
Edit:
We talked about it, and then we hanged around whole day. The day ended with a lot of kisses, so my little problem is solved.. I didn't talk to her for some days, and she really missed me ;P
  
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This sounds really strange. My guess is that she has ex bf issues. Either she has recently broken up and likes you but does not want to start something new due to recent heartbreak, or she is rekindling a relationship with an ex (who may have found out about you and made a move not to lose her).
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It's over.
DELETE FROM FACEBOOK, HIT THE GYM
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maybe your breath was bad
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Maybe she's dodging, so put the ball in her court. Tell her that it's up to her to make the next plans for you two. Tell her to call you next time she's available.
Then go on with your life. If she calls you back soon to make plans, then that's awesome  If not, then forget her.
You don't want to get led on.
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haha, this happened to me so many times, and I married my girl. You gotta have patience dude, you are only 18 anyway. Often times girls do not want to explain what happened because they are embarassed. The best way to deal with it is to wait til she calls you and tell her that it's no big deal and that you can go out whenever she wants to (people don't like to be pressured in general). If she doesn't call you in a day or two, then call her ONCE randomly during the day and just say "Hey, i wanted to see what's up. Well i'm off to do "blah" today and if you want to give me a call to talk, just ring me up, bye." Short simple, and to the point. Most people date for like 2-3 years before getting married. Don't worry about it, i'm sure this isn't the last time it will happen.
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well, easy solution is to stop asking her out. you've made enough tries to get her outside, and shes flaked pretty hard. if you say, "next time you make the plans" to her, she will ask you out if she likes you, and if she doesnt, she won't ever bother you again. this lets you move on with your life without completely burning the bridge that you've established.
however, if you're lovestruck, then it wont matter. you've just got to grind out the misery until you learn your lesson (or she stops being a flake)
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u r not giving her enough incentive to come on the date with u. u must make it 100% certain she is coming. instead of asking like a pussy, "will you go out with me??" just make her an offer she cant refuse. "go out with me... or i kill you." no way she can oversleep or do homework over that.
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Hopefully she wants to talk to you after you called her 3 times in under an hour... I can't give you much advice other than give it a few days and see if she contacts you.
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Baller once again comes in late and wins the thread.
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On November 16 2010 07:12 gods_basement wrote:
well, easy solution is to stop asking her out. you've made enough tries to get her outside, and shes flaked pretty hard. if you say, "next time you make the plans" to her, she will ask you out if she likes you, and if she doesnt, she won't ever bother you again. this lets you move on with your life without completely burning the bridge that you've established.
however, if you're lovestruck, then it wont matter. you've just got to grind out the misery until you learn your lesson (or she stops being a flake)
yeah, I agree with you. I think I will tell her to call me when she has time! But dunno if I should bring this shit up, just ask her what the fuck is up, or just ignore once again what happened
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rofl, seriously she doesnt show up once and you make a blog post about it asking for advice?
here's my advice: grow up. rofl.
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Baller, that was a fairly close nomination to the "Improper Prize 2010".
As for the answer, I agree on DarkPlasmaBall
Maybe she's dodging, so put the ball in her court. Tell her that it's up to her to make the next plans for you two. Tell her to call you next time she's available.
Then go on with your life. If she calls you back soon to make plans, then that's awesome If not, then forget her.
You don't want to get led on.
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haha, wow some bad advice. She is not dodging yet. From what it sounds like, the OP might have been a litle bit too forward in his approach. Give the girl some room and don't make a big deal. If she's flaky in the future, then it's obviously not going to work, but if the OP makes it a huge deal, then that will be a big turnoff. Relax, it's not worth stressing over. One time i waited 2 hours for my gf and she didn't show up. I called and left a message. The next day she calls and said she fell alseep, I asked if we could hang out instead of going on a date, and we just hung out at the park playing basketball.
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Write to her "lol dodge moar" then never see her again.
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Sounds like she has some stuff to sort out of her own. Could be a lot of things like someone in her family dying or maybe he just got a massive acne break out and is embarrassed to see you.
My guess is that its another boy though.
If I were you, just be straight up. Tell her what you feel, and hopefully you will get a good response, and if not theres always more fish.
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"We started talking sooo much, every fucking day for like 2-3 hours."
this is where you messed up.
Talking that much before you even go out on a date is just a bad idea. You reveal too much of yourself and removed the mystery. I know it seemed to you like it was going well at the time but trust me when I say it wasn't. You should have cut the conversation short (no more than 20 minutes) and always be the one to cut off the conversation. Leave her wanting more. Everyday for 2-3 hours just makes you sound needy. You're not her girlfriend. You should make her feel that you have a lot of things going on and you have goals and that your time is important.
The other problem is, once she blew you off the first time, you should have just ignored her. If she really wanted to go out with you, she would have apologized for falling asleep and breaking a date and SHE would have come up with an alternative date or tried to make it up to you in some way.
At this point, she already sees you as super clingy and the attraction is likely gone. Your best option is to not talk to her again and start dating other girls. If she calls you back again, don't be eager. Tell her you have lots of things going on. If she wants to meet up, tell her you are kind of busy with some new friends that day. Don't fall for her shit. Let her know implicitly that shes not the only girl in the world and you can easily get with other girls.
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On November 16 2010 07:14 baller wrote:
u r not giving her enough incentive to come on the date with u. u must make it 100% certain she is coming. instead of asking like a pussy, "will you go out with me??" just make her an offer she cant refuse. "go out with me... or i kill you." no way she can oversleep or do homework over that.
Not your best. But then again, it's probably because I have such high expectations.
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She flaked on you. Pretty sure girls in high school do that all the time, sounds pretty fucked up, but it's probably because they are immature still. Or she was leading you on the entire time while playing the field, and then basically is now going after someone else.
You missed your timing window obv! lol
What baller said is an exaggeration of what you should do. Don't "ask" - tell her you're taking her out on a date, etc. or "let's go out" or what not. Anyways, yah...I wouldn't deal with those type of girls, they're just going to frustrate you and drive you crazy I would think.
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She's being a bitch and playing with your feelings so that she doesn't have to feel bad about actually dumping you. She deserves ALL the harassment that you can throw at her. If it were me I'd schedule a new date every single day for years until she finally grew some balls and dumped me.
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Next time get an early double gas and keep six sentries forcefielding her ramp.
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You´ve done all you can. Now just try and forget about her, and next time you run in to her, it´s up to her to apologize and suggest you go out again.
That being said, her not taking your calls tells me that she´s just not that into you.
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On November 16 2010 07:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Maybe she's dodging, so put the ball in her court. Tell her that it's up to her to make the next plans for you two. Tell her to call you next time she's available. Then go on with your life. If she calls you back soon to make plans, then that's awesome If not, then forget her. You don't want to get led on.
i agree that you should do this. if she stood you up two times in a row, if she actually is interested don't make it too easy for her... make her show it this time. though girls are often shy about taking the initiative, so if you take this route be ready to forget her/go on with your life should she not initiate anything.
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If she stood him up twice without so much as an apology, its not because she is shy.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I've had this happen to me before, its a product of acting too needy and letting it move too fast without being really involved with her. Theres a couple things you can do to save/fix this.
- Don't talk to her that much. Shes not your fucking wife - give her the pleasure or thinking and missing you and wondering why you aren't on msn.
- Be the one the cut off convo cause you are busy doing stuff.
- It's really important that you don't make a deal of this, but let her know that her behavior is unacceptable. Dont chase after her. You actually have a much better chance of success if you tell her that you have other things you can do in your time and her cancelling that late is unacceptable - if she wants to go out, she can call you.
- Girls subconsciously do this stuff to test how much bullshit you will put up with and if you are really a man. In my online dating escapades, i had a girl cancel on me 5 hours before we were supposed to meet - i told her that was a her problem, not a me problem and that 5 hours cancel wasn't acceptable. I dropped her and then she chased me about a week after.
- Wait 4-5 days, test the water if she hasn't contacted you already. Then pick it back up, cooly.
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yea Kennigit has it right.
Although I feel that if she doesn't contact you in 4-5 days, you should just forget it and move on.
In fact, you should move on right from this moment and be nonchalant towards her from here on forth. Even if she calls you back, don't be super nice to her immediately and be indifferent.
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Kennigit is right on the money with this one.
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She's testing you. Women fucking do that all the time. You have to come across as serious, but not as needy. That's a problem I've had for years that I'm just starting to fix, and let me tell you, it's hard, especially if you really like the girl. However, that being said, act indifferent for a bit, don't treat it like a date next time, at least not at the outset.
Best advice I was ever given about going for a girl you liked was this, "Go in with ZERO expectations. Go in clean, without any thought about what's to come on your mind, and shit will fly. They know when you're thinking too much, and they don't like it, they can smell it on you, so just don't. Don't be needy, don't put too much of the focus on them, there's a time for that later if shit goes well, and you'll know it."
I will forever love my friend for sitting me down and drilling that into my head.
Edit:
xD
Just realized Kennigit beat me to the punch...but with bullet points...well played my good admin, well played.
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Yeah Kennigit hit the nail on the head. If you act like you REALLY need her she'll realize she can play these types of games and boom, you're really screwed. Take it slow and don't do anything for a week then cautiously reengage and see how she reacts.
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United States1566 Posts
When girls pull shit like this on you, just let it go. She's not worth it, and you'll find somebody else. Just find somebody that won't put you through garbage like this. If you put up with it, you become a dog - I've been there, it's shit man.
STAY AWAY.
edit: Kennigit is a fucking baller, he gives godly advice.
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Kennigit is on the money, sadly.
People are fucked up (not Kennigit ofc, he´s a god), they do this stuff mostly subconsciously.
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I knew a girl that did this to me a couple times.. Just start ignoring her and she'll come to you.
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Enough with the calling so often, enough with giving them so attention. The more you do the more they don't want to see you. Get a girl's interest, then ignore them. Giving them bites every now and then.
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Never date a girl that your cannot trust. It will always end up fuck up.
But if your want he, change the game and make he want you.
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Bait, THEN SWITCH.
Flaking is shitty, but if you put too much pressure on a person to commit to you, it becomes stressful. A person has to feel like they are choosing to see you, not that you are a responsibility. At least when you don't know them well.
This goes for more than just love affairs. It's kind of life in general not to ask too much, too soon. So basically, follow Kennigit's advice. If she feels like you're going to drop her if she doesn't act, then she will feel like she is choosing to act.
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"i cannot come tomorrow due to X"
"oh no problem, i can take someone else"
ez'd.
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On November 16 2010 09:49 JeeJee wrote:
"i cannot come tomorrow due to X"
"oh no problem, i can take someone else"
ez'd.
yeah ^^^ this is the perfect response to a girl like this.
you gotta bruise that ego of hers, take her down a notch.
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kennigits right just act as if you have your own life and your own goals
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As always, listen to Kennigit. He's right. I put up with this bullshit a lot too
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Kennigit a fucking baller~
listen to this man!
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On November 16 2010 07:05 BaltA wrote:
Then she added me on msn. We started talking sooo much, every fucking day for like 2-3 hours..
This is considered "sooo much"? I talked with a girl 9 hours a day(via ICQ), for 3-4 weeks, then vacation was over and we reduced it to 2-5 hours.
Anyway, regarding your problem: Just go to her and ask directly, whether she dodged it, what she thinks etc. Getting straight to the point is always the best thing...and it saves time as well.
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There is no such thing as a legitimate excuse for ditching Kennigit, don't be ridiculous.
I know a lot of people on this forum probably perceive themselves as nice guys, but you're not being a nice guy if you just have no self-respect.
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but what if she really fell asleep at the time of your first date and had homework to do at the time of your second date? Why don't you just schedule a third date? I hear that if something comes up three times in a row for a girl, then she must be lying to you. Not two, though.
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If you want any chance with this girl, do not contact her. Don't schedule a third date, don't check in to see how she is, don't do any of that.
When you do that, you are implicitly saying that it is ok for her to cancel at the last minute repeatedly without so much as an apology. You need to setup some boundaries.
Don't confront her directly either. Women hate spelling it out for you. She is subtly giving you hints that shes not that in to you. Don't be a doofus and directly confront her.
A girl who is really in to you would not fall asleep right before your date. It just doesn't happen. You said yourself, you were thinking about her all throughout the day before the planned date time. If she was in to you, she would have done the same, perhaps even more so, and no way would have flaked twice.
I'll say this again. If you want any chance with this girl. Ignore her, enjoy other parts of your life, improve yourself, and date other girls. That is the only way to get her.
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On November 16 2010 10:48 Chef wrote:
There is no such thing as a legitimate excuse for ditching Kennigit, don't be ridiculous.
I know a lot of people on this forum probably perceive themselves as nice guys, but you're not being a nice guy if you just have no self-respect.
He's talking about all the Terran players. 
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Thats fine, if those were the circumstances, I'm sure the girl will make it up to OP. If she doesn't even feel the least bit bad about standing up the OP twice, it probably means shes not in to OP and it would not be the least bit douchey for OP to ignore her.
If she was a quality girl, even if she wasn't super in to OP, she would still try to make up for it somehow since she did initially agree to the date twice. Obviously she is immature and playing headgames.
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i had a similar problem where my ex gf fell asleep for the entire night until like 8-9pm when i was supposed to take her out to a nice steak restaurant on our 1month. i knew from that moment she was unreliable. lol. don't wait around for girls. it's not worth it. when you have a girl wait around for you, that's when you know you have a girl who is truly interested in u.
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Next the bitch!
She flaked on you and it's not worth your time or energy to even think about what went wrong. It's nothing you did. It's her problem. Find someone better!
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I'm meeting up with her today, and we will see what happenes, will update the OP after the chat if anyone are intrested... We will see what happens!
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On November 16 2010 07:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Maybe she's dodging, so put the ball in her court. Tell her that it's up to her to make the next plans for you two. Tell her to call you next time she's available. Then go on with your life. If she calls you back soon to make plans, then that's awesome If not, then forget her. You don't want to get led on.
ya i agree with this, girls sometimes like to play little "games" or just bad advise her friends tell her, like telling her she should be in control of the situation or if you forgive her after flaking on you then his definitely a keeper amongst other bad advise...
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Kennigit speaketh the truth. Listen to him above all else!
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Was going to reply but Kennigit gave you the advices I was going to so just read carefully what he is saying, if you have more question or don't agree with what he is saying you can ask.
As a paraphrase of what he said I'll just underline some of the things that went wrong with what you described :
This is not a regular problem I think at least, this is more that I search the advice of TL.. What to do!
Actually this is a really common problem, more or less due to the same mistakes.
One day a good looking girl added me on facebook, she knew my mother so added me. We started talking on fb and I got her number right away. After some days we met for the first time, and had a blast. A good fit I would say.
This is good so far, I have not the details but getting her number fast and meeting fast is very good when you meet someone online, you should never become her "internet friend".
Then she added me on msn. We started talking sooo much, every fucking day for like 2-3 hours..
I'm not suggesting it killed you but you should not do that. Remember this : We fall in love when somebody's missing. You need to have your own shit and be less available. Otherwise you enter friend zone, be her confident and all this bullshit. Avoid MSN at all cost with a girl, it shows when you're available and this is not an emotionaly charged interaction (phone is better, in person is best) (and you should aim for emotional, cool, funny interactions with a girl; avoid emo / logical / boring conversations at all cost and especially on MSN).
Edit : when I talk about having an emotionaly charged interaction, I mean play games / tell stories / etc that will get HER emotional (excited, laughing, amazed etc). When I talk about avoiding emo stuff I mean avoiding talking about the fact you feel bad because of ..., of your ex, her ex etc (well emo suicidal stuff !)
Then one day I asked her if she wansts to go with me to practise ( playing basketball). And she agreed, we played some basket and had a great time.
There were this akward moment when we were about to say good bye, like the moment you should kiss the girl, but she got nervious and pulled away, so the next time we met I just did it.
She got nervious there, but that actually helped me a lot, because the next time we talked, she said that she really liked me and so on.
Good to have at least set up a date, you should make it sooner. BUT you must do something else after basketball. Basketball will create rapport but it won't make her attracted to you, you need a chiller environment to do that (unless you are actually good at this stuff and can get very physical while playing, but you're not there yet).
A girl being nervous after you kissed her is not a good sign if there is no good reasons to it (like if her firends are wtaching).
Kiss her when you feel the interaction is sparkling and after having already been physical, not as a goodbye nor as a welcome. If you are not physical and suddenly go for a kiss this is awkward and will often lead to a fail (not always though... but don't be sloppy).
And now the messed up part starts....
I ask her out a friday ( I'm 18 she's 17), she said yeah, but when I called her, she had fell asleep.....?
Ok, shit happens, that can happen to everbody. Then I asked her out again, and she said yeah again. Told me how much she looked forward to see me and how much she missed me.
The day came where we were supposed to go out. I go to work, the 7 hours went by so fucking slow coz I could bearly wait to see her, and then I call her.... She does not pick up.... Call her 30 min later and she does not answer, and did the same a 3rd time.
I go where we were supposed to meet and wait for 20 min.. Maybe her phone is broken or she forgot it (yeye I'm naive). I got pissed when she didn't show up, so I went and took some beer...
When I came home, with alcohol in my blood and was extremly dissapointed that she didn't show, I saw she wrote on msn : " I can not come today nor tomorrow due to school work "... COMEONE! This is 100% a dodge, I think
Yes she is flaking left and right and you are falling into it.
If a girl flakes on you, you should be clear that your time is valuable and you don't want it to ever happen again. You should also try to have a second plan when she is doing it so when she apologize or shit just tell her you still had a good time with your buddy John (and still tell her you won't cope with her flaking, you do not need to be agressive just firm).
Then just wait without giving news, if she call back it is all good, plan another date. If she does not call back first, do it after 4-5 days, in a casual manner, like you don't really care anymore if she will go or not (because she may not come and that will be the clear sign this is over).
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Calgary25969 Posts
On November 16 2010 10:43 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 07:05 BaltA wrote:
Then she added me on msn. We started talking sooo much, every fucking day for like 2-3 hours.. This is considered "sooo much"? I talked with a girl 9 hours a day(via ICQ), for 3-4 weeks, then vacation was over and we reduced it to 2-5 hours. Anyway, regarding your problem: Just go to her and ask directly, whether she dodged it, what she thinks etc. Getting straight to the point is always the best thing...and it saves time as well.
I am not mentally capable of talking to one person for 9 hours. What the fuck did you talk about?
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Teenage girls are fucking retarded and impossible to figure out. Just ignore her.
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On November 18 2010 05:10 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 10:43 Lucumo wrote:On November 16 2010 07:05 BaltA wrote:
Then she added me on msn. We started talking sooo much, every fucking day for like 2-3 hours.. This is considered "sooo much"? I talked with a girl 9 hours a day(via ICQ), for 3-4 weeks, then vacation was over and we reduced it to 2-5 hours. Anyway, regarding your problem: Just go to her and ask directly, whether she dodged it, what she thinks etc. Getting straight to the point is always the best thing...and it saves time as well. I am not mentally capable of talking to one person for 9 hours. What the fuck did you talk about?
I'm guessing, you talk, 2 mins later she responds, 2 mins later you respond, you have a 540 min convo instead of 30 mins. At least, I had similar conversation, but only for 6 hours.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Don't talk to girls 2-3 hours a day on MSN if you want a chance in general.
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Move on, it's over. Cut off contact. Call nonchalantly in one week if you are feeling desperate.
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On November 16 2010 07:09 paper wrote:
It's over.
DELETE FROM FACEBOOK, HIT THE GYM
Solid.
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A girl who is into you would never avoid you like that. May be you got the wrong impression when you were hanging out.
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United States1566 Posts
On November 18 2010 07:15 AndAgain wrote:
A girl who is into you would never avoid you like that.
no man, that's a logical presumption.
rule #1:
Girls do not follow any sort of logic, nor can logic be applied to them.
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You came off too needy, which often means your screwd.
That or shes telling the trouth, make her do some of the work, you should make her work to get you, not the other way around.
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Edit:
We talked about it, and then we hanged around whole day. The day ended with a lot of kisses, so my little problem is solved.. I didn't talk to her for some days, and she really missed me ;P
LOL @ "problem solved." They're probably just beginning. Please do keep us posted.
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From the confession thread.
Don't mistake physical attraction for love. You did contact her way too much too soon. So she was either trying to figure out wtf to do with this guy drooling all over her. Possibly been too busy, but ime a girl who digs you will still make time to at least chat briefly. Or is seeing other dudes as well.
At your age I wouldn't pigeonhole yourself to one girl. Have alternatives. Not like you're married to her or are in a serious relationship.
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On November 16 2010 08:30 Kennigit wrote:
I've had this happen to me before, its a product of acting too needy and letting it move too fast without being really involved with her. Theres a couple things you can do to save/fix this.
- Don't talk to her that much. Shes not your fucking wife - give her the pleasure or thinking and missing you and wondering why you aren't on msn.
- Be the one the cut off convo cause you are busy doing stuff.
- It's really important that you don't make a deal of this, but let her know that her behavior is unacceptable. Dont chase after her. You actually have a much better chance of success if you tell her that you have other things you can do in your time and her cancelling that late is unacceptable - if she wants to go out, she can call you.
- Girls subconsciously do this stuff to test how much bullshit you will put up with and if you are really a man. In my online dating escapades, i had a girl cancel on me 5 hours before we were supposed to meet - i told her that was a her problem, not a me problem and that 5 hours cancel wasn't acceptable. I dropped her and then she chased me about a week after.
- Wait 4-5 days, test the water if she hasn't contacted you already. Then pick it back up, cooly.
I have a friend who subscribes to theories like this. I was talking to him one day and he told me a story about how he asked out this girl from our school. Long story short, he looks forward all week to this date, and then she texts him about three or fours hours before they are supposed to meet, says she can't go out that night, because her cousin she doesn't see very often unexpectedly came to visit, she'll take a rain check. My friend texts her back, and basically said something pretty close to what you describe, that it was her problem, that a late cancellation was unacceptable, etc.
Anyway, unbeknownst to him, I know this girl, and I asked her about it, and her excuse was legit, and she actually was interested, but when he called and said what he did, she thought he was a fucking psycho. What are you, a doctor's office? Do you charge her a cancellation fee as well? It sounded like a really bad idea when my friend originally told me, and it sounds just as bad reading it again in your post.
My own advice would be that you should try again, and if she flakes on you again (which in this case she did), then just put the ball in her court like others have suggested, and leave it alone. It's entirely possible that legitimate excuses happen, I think it's stupid to get all macho on a girl telling her what's acceptable and what isn't, you're probably just hurting your chances. I've never heard of a girl being told off like that and then going, "Oh man I better chase this guy!" It always ends in disaster in stories I've heard.
Just to further reiterate my point, I met my current girlfriend on a weekend excursion I had to do for my job. I work with troubled youth and we take them places, show them around, get them involved in quality projects around the community - it's funded by Immigration Canada. Anyway, so I meet this girl, and there isn't a whole lot to do on this weekend, so I mostly talk and hang out with her. I ask for her number eventually, she gives it to me, and everything seemed fine. I give her a call a few days later in the morning and I get no answer. I try again that night, no answer. I tried again two days later, same thing. It would seem that this girl was screening my calls and wasn't picking up.
I talked to my friend - the very same friend I mentioned in the first paragraph of this post, and he suggested that I leave a message for her, saying that it isn't cool that she hasn't returned my calls and that it was her loss. Well, instead of doing like, I left a message just saying who it was, that I tried giving her a call to no avail, and for her to give me a call if she was interested. She called back a couple days later and it turns out she had a business trip in the United States and didn't get any reception so she wasn't receiving any of her calls. If I had done what my friend suggested, who the fuck knows what would have happened. Therefore, I would suggest you don't do what Kennigit suggested, and instead just leave it up to her and see what happens.
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The whole point is not that you tell her off or you tell her that its unacceptable. Don't do that because that also shows that you care and you are emotionally affected by her decision to cancel.
If you are ever stood up by a girl, just act nonchalantly and disinterested.
If she cancels, just say "oh ok, thats cool". If the date was a concert or something then you can add "I can take one of my friends", leaving it open for her to interpret whether your other friend is a guy or a girl, if its not one of those settings then just leave it out, wish her luck with whatever shes doing then end the conversation.
The point is to assert that you have a lot of things going on and that it is a privilege for her to go out with you, not the other way around. So if she cancels, neither should you offer an alternate time nor should you criticize her. Just act like its no biggie and its her loss without saying it.
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On November 25 2010 07:22 Salv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 08:30 Kennigit wrote:
I've had this happen to me before, its a product of acting too needy and letting it move too fast without being really involved with her. Theres a couple things you can do to save/fix this.
- Don't talk to her that much. Shes not your fucking wife - give her the pleasure or thinking and missing you and wondering why you aren't on msn.
- Be the one the cut off convo cause you are busy doing stuff.
- It's really important that you don't make a deal of this, but let her know that her behavior is unacceptable. Dont chase after her. You actually have a much better chance of success if you tell her that you have other things you can do in your time and her cancelling that late is unacceptable - if she wants to go out, she can call you.
- Girls subconsciously do this stuff to test how much bullshit you will put up with and if you are really a man. In my online dating escapades, i had a girl cancel on me 5 hours before we were supposed to meet - i told her that was a her problem, not a me problem and that 5 hours cancel wasn't acceptable. I dropped her and then she chased me about a week after.
- Wait 4-5 days, test the water if she hasn't contacted you already. Then pick it back up, cooly. I have a friend who subscribes to theories like this. I was talking to him one day and he told me a story about how he asked out this girl from our school. Long story short, he looks forward all week to this date, and then she texts him about three or fours hours before they are supposed to meet, says she can't go out that night, because her cousin she doesn't see very often unexpectedly came to visit, she'll take a rain check. My friend texts her back, and basically said something pretty close to what you describe, that it was her problem, that a late cancellation was unacceptable, etc. Anyway, unbeknownst to him, I know this girl, and I asked her about it, and her excuse was legit, and she actually was interested, but when he called and said what he did, she thought he was a fucking psycho. What are you, a doctor's office? Do you charge her a cancellation fee as well? It sounded like a really bad idea when my friend originally told me, and it sounds just as bad reading it again in your post. My own advice would be that you should try again, and if she flakes on you again (which in this case she did), then just put the ball in her court like others have suggested, and leave it alone. It's entirely possible that legitimate excuses happen, I think it's stupid to get all macho on a girl telling her what's acceptable and what isn't, you're probably just hurting your chances. I've never heard of a girl being told off like that and then going, "Oh man I better chase this guy!" It always ends in disaster in stories I've heard. Just to further reiterate my point, I met my current girlfriend on a weekend excursion I had to do for my job. I work with troubled youth and we take them places, show them around, get them involved in quality projects around the community - it's funded by Immigration Canada. Anyway, so I meet this girl, and there isn't a whole lot to do on this weekend, so I mostly talk and hang out with her. I ask for her number eventually, she gives it to me, and everything seemed fine. I give her a call a few days later in the morning and I get no answer. I try again that night, no answer. I tried again two days later, same thing. It would seem that this girl was screening my calls and wasn't picking up. I talked to my friend - the very same friend I mentioned in the first paragraph of this post, and he suggested that I leave a message for her, saying that it isn't cool that she hasn't returned my calls and that it was her loss. Well, instead of doing like, I left a message just saying who it was, that I tried giving her a call to no avail, and for her to give me a call if she was interested. She called back a couple days later and it turns out she had a business trip in the United States and didn't get any reception so she wasn't receiving any of her calls. If I had done what my friend suggested, who the fuck knows what would have happened. Therefore, I would suggest you don't do what Kennigit suggested, and instead just leave it up to her and see what happens.
Yes I kinda agree.
You should not be all emo and angry if she flakes (good or bad excuse), but you should not be too much comprehensive either. My personal opinion says you should not care much about it happening or not (like you do not call her all angry shouting "this is your loss" You can say "i'm disapointed (don't elaborate around it), but still had a good time with my friend that lives nearby"), then push her a little (wait before calling again), and the next time act as if nothing happened, you can make a blunt joke about it ("this time don't be afraid to come, I won't bite... I think", she will probably say "I'm sorry for last time but -Excuses-" just say "ok").
As for your friend, it feels like an example of someone that has become angry with women, being strong, setting boundaries is a good thing; but being a happy and fulfilled being is as important, and being too agressive about is not being fulfilled with your won life.
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I know exactly what the deal is with my friend, and it's that he's in to the entire idea of gaming women, and maybe that works for some people, I don't know, but my friend is definitely not the type of guy who should be using that approach. My friend is simply a nice guy, but he tries to put on this macho facade where he's king shit. It's crazy to read some things here because they are almost verbatim what he says to me sometimes, for example:
On November 25 2010 12:06 lixlix wrote:
The point is to assert that you have a lot of things going on and that it is a privilege for her to go out with you, not the other way around.
My friend says this stuff all the time. He'll be talking to me about some girl, and how she cancelled a date, or how he suggested a date and it didn't work out because she had an excuse, and then he'll explain to me how he's going to play it. He'll say things exactly like this: "I already called her once, but it's like, you have to let her know that you're a busy guy, and that things revolve around you. Her not going out with me is her loss, because I have things going on, and I don't schedule my life around her..." ad nauseam.
Maybe that kind of thing works, I have no idea, that's not my style, what I do know is that I have more success with less headache by just being what I would say is a normal, rational person. I'm not saying that what I'm saying is better, but I am saying that I know of one case at least where gaming advice simply doesn't work. It's more likely that you need to be a natural at that sort of thing, and I think if you're having trouble with women in the first place, you're probably not that guy. You should just be genuine without being a sucker, I think every guy can do that.
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On November 25 2010 13:05 Salv wrote:I know exactly what the deal is with my friend, and it's that he's in to the entire idea of gaming women, and maybe that works for some people, I don't know, but my friend is definitely not the type of guy who should be using that approach. My friend is simply a nice guy, but he tries to put on this macho facade where he's king shit. It's crazy to read some things here because they are almost verbatim what he says to me sometimes, for example: Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 12:06 lixlix wrote:
The point is to assert that you have a lot of things going on and that it is a privilege for her to go out with you, not the other way around.
My friend says this stuff all the time. He'll be talking to me about some girl, and how she cancelled a date, or how he suggested a date and it didn't work out because she had an excuse, and then he'll explain to me how he's going to play it. He'll say things exactly like this: "I already called her once, but it's like, you have to let her know that you're a busy guy, and that things revolve around you. Her not going out with me is her loss, because I have things going on, and I don't schedule my life around her..." ad nauseam. Maybe that kind of thing works, I have no idea, that's not my style, what I do know is that I have more success with less headache by just being what I would say is a normal, rational person. I'm not saying that what I'm saying is better, but I am saying that I know of one case at least where gaming advice simply doesn't work. It's more likely that you need to be a natural at that sort of thing, and I think if you're having trouble with women in the first place, you're probably not that guy. You should just be genuine without being a sucker, I think every guy can do that.
Well yes as suspected this sound more than someoe that had failures with women and trying to figure it out. For now he is in the "discovery" phase wher ehe learned being too much of a nice guy is not a good approach, so now he is learning andd acting robot like. With time he will calibrate himself better.
The stuff about being busy and such is "true" but maybe you perceived it in the wrong meaning :
- The first thing is that a woman rarely like neediness. First atractive women are surounded by neediness, so being different is a good thing. Second, neediness is not an attractive trait at all, I had needy girlfriend this is annoying as fuck. Making your schedule around a woman : offering 30 different times for a date, canceling other apointment, screams neediness.
- Women (and aven Men) are attracted by interesting people. Being interesting is having experiences and doing things. Having a busy life is a clue to you having an interesting life (might be a wrong clue, but it's better than someone always available). Now the thing is, yes you can emulate this and try tactics and shit to make her believe you are busy... but this is just a short remedy, for it to become natural you actually have to have a really busy life. And in the process you will become more interesting by your experiences. In short things will fit together.
So you're friend is somewhat on the right track if before he has a lot of trouble with this, but he is in silver league yet and still does not see the big picture. The thing is not tricks it's real personality. What dating experts tell you how to be (non needy, interesting, busy, etc etc) you should actually really become that and not trick it.
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I don't understand all this relationship theory going on.
You guys make it seem like we're fighting a war against members of the opposite sex. You make relationships sound like a game with set and defined rules: oh women only like guys that are disinterested in them... the guys have to smoke weed and own cars and not give a shit about life.
You make women sound like idiots who need to feed off of nice guys and get abused by stupid ones.
I'm no expert on relationships, but I think it's probably significantly better to be honest about yourself. Thank you Salv for pointing that out in this thread.
Girls can be smart, just as smart if not smarter than you. I think they can be rational too. Of course they don't like creepy guys that bug them all day... of course they probably want guys who are into sex and demonstrate it...they probably want guys that are fun too! Think of them as rational people. Don't think that they just have a thing for idiots who put them down and smoke weed a lot.
Last thing I'd like to mention is the myth of the friend lover ladders that a lot of people on TL like to refer to. You act like men are incapable of cooperating with women in a nonsexual manner, that they only go after women for sex and can not have female friends. Then you act like women can only see men as either friends or lovers but not as both. It just doesn't make any sense that sex wouldn't be a natural step in a male female relationship once two people got to know each other really well. The only real hindrance is that both the male and the female do not want to jeoparadize their friendship... not this mystical ladder theory shit.
Friends with benefits outright disproves basic ladder theory.
Guys... if I were you I would take some time to rethink your perception on relationships. Stop being so cynical.
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Simply put... she founded interest in another guy.. prolly got rejected and used you as a rebound...
the end..
edit: o yer i find that never calling her instead let her call u... never speak to her first on msn but let her speak to u first makes u look cooler... making u sound too cool for her... hahah
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Hello hidden_motives, how is it going from the time you asked if you could meet someone while being busy.
You guys make it seem like we're fighting a war against members of the opposite sex. You make relationships sound like a game with set and defined rules: oh women only like guys that are disinterested in them... the guys have to smoke weed and own cars and not give a shit about life.
This is what I reffer to when I call people that think of it that way : angry. But still you admitted yourself (later) there are behaviours that are repulsive, so as an advice one should avoid such behaviours.
Weed and cars have nothing to do with it.
You make women sound like idiots who need to feed off of nice guys and get abused by stupid ones.
This is not what they want, but it's what is going on, and imo for a simple reason nice guys are boring and are transparent (women don't see them), also you can't feel their sexuality; jerks have sexual power and a stronger personality but they are abusive. In either situation a woman is not happy. BUT she will go with a "good" guy that display the traits of a strong man (know what he wants and stands for it) without looking back.
I do not hold the truth though, this is just how I see it.
Girls can be smart, just as smart if not smarter than you. I think they can be rational too. Of course they don't like creepy guys that bug them all day... of course they probably want guys who are into sex and demonstrate it...they probably want guys that are fun too! Think of them as rational people.
Yes. Though they are more emotional than rational.
Last thing I'd like to mention is the myth of the friend lover ladders that a lot of people on TL like to refer to. You act like men are incapable of cooperating with women in a nonsexual manner, that they only go after women for sex and can not have female friends. Then you act like women can only see men as either friends or lovers but not as both. It just doesn't make any sense that sex wouldn't be a natural step in a male female relationship once two people got to know each other really well. The only real hindrance is that both the male and the female do not want to jeoparadize their friendship... not this mystical ladder theory shit.
I'm not sure I understand corectly and what exactly you reffer to. But the thing is women are more honest with this, they know which can be a friend and which is either for love or sex. Men on the other hand are often not honest on this subject and play the friend when they want to be the lover, this is not a strategy, for someone to see you as something you should try to look like it. I clearly think it is possible for male female friendship, but I do not think it is possible when the man has a scarcity frame of mind (he has very few options with women). I think a man should really be desinterested about a sexual relationship with a woman to become a friend and this can only happen if his sexual need are adressed with somebody else (one or more girls).
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On November 26 2010 08:06 rezoacken wrote:
Hello hidden_motives, how is it going from the time you asked if you could meet someone while being busy.
School is still as busy as ever. I still remember your advice and have read it over many times.
I do like a girl. For some strange reason there's always at most one girl that dominates my attention. I'm rather apathetic towards and make fun of all the others.
I'll provide you more information in a pm since your advice was very helpful. For now, I don't think I'll be pursuing any relationships. School :/
This is what I reffer to when I call people that think of it that way : angry. But still you admitted yourself (later) there are behaviours that are repulsive, so as an advice one should avoid such behaviours.
Then everyone on teamliquid is just angry at women and their emotions are clouding their judgement on women. Thus they behave with the same complexity that they see in the women they seem to loathe. I've asked a few girls, they think guys are complex too...
Show nested quote +Girls can be smart, just as smart if not smarter than you. I think they can be rational too. Of course they don't like creepy guys that bug them all day... of course they probably want guys who are into sex and demonstrate it...they probably want guys that are fun too! Think of them as rational people. Yes. Though they are more emotional than rational.
While it is idiomatic to speak in this way, I would argue that people act as rationally as they can in their given state of minds. While what they are doing may not seem rational to us, it is rational to them in their emotional state. It's not like guys aren't slaves to their emotions either.
I would still try to approach relationships as reasonably as possible though.
The clouding of reason by emotional states is a hidden variable in my relationship theory that I did not take into account. Thanks.
Show nested quote +Last thing I'd like to mention is the myth of the friend lover ladders that a lot of people on TL like to refer to. You act like men are incapable of cooperating with women in a nonsexual manner, that they only go after women for sex and can not have female friends. Then you act like women can only see men as either friends or lovers but not as both. It just doesn't make any sense that sex wouldn't be a natural step in a male female relationship once two people got to know each other really well. The only real hindrance is that both the male and the female do not want to jeoparadize their friendship... not this mystical ladder theory shit. I'm not sure I understand corectly[sic] and what exactly you reffer[sic] to. But the thing is women are more honest with this, they know which can be a friend and which is either for love or sex. Men on the other hand are often not honest on this subject and play the friend when they want to be the lover, this is not a strategy, for someone to see you as something you should try to look like it. I clearly think it is possible for male female friendship, but I do not think it is possible when the man has a scarcity frame of mind (he has very few options with women). I think a man should really be desinterested about a sexual relationship with a woman to become a friend and this can only happen if his sexual need are adressed with somebody else (one or more girls).
I've noticed that a lot of guys like to point to ladder theory, either directly or through links or indirectly by spouting the ideas of ladder theory almost verbatim .
http://ladderwiki.com/wiki/Ladder_Theory
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Hiddne_Motive's got it right. Girls are human too...(maybe)
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Lmao that ladder theory link is pathetic, omg.
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On November 26 2010 09:13 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +Girls can be smart, just as smart if not smarter than you. I think they can be rational too. Of course they don't like creepy guys that bug them all day... of course they probably want guys who are into sex and demonstrate it...they probably want guys that are fun too! Think of them as rational people. Yes. Though they are more emotional than rational. While it is idiomatic to speak in this way, I would argue that people act as rationally as they can in their given state of minds. While what they are doing may not seem rational to us, it is rational to them in their emotional state. It's not like guys aren't slaves to their emotions either. I would still try to approach relationships as reasonably as possible though. The clouding of reason by emotional states is a hidden variable in my relationship theory that I did not take into account. Thanks. Show nested quote +Last thing I'd like to mention is the myth of the friend lover ladders that a lot of people on TL like to refer to. You act like men are incapable of cooperating with women in a nonsexual manner, that they only go after women for sex and can not have female friends. Then you act like women can only see men as either friends or lovers but not as both. It just doesn't make any sense that sex wouldn't be a natural step in a male female relationship once two people got to know each other really well. The only real hindrance is that both the male and the female do not want to jeoparadize their friendship... not this mystical ladder theory shit. I'm not sure I understand corectly[sic] and what exactly you reffer[sic] to. But the thing is women are more honest with this, they know which can be a friend and which is either for love or sex. Men on the other hand are often not honest on this subject and play the friend when they want to be the lover, this is not a strategy, for someone to see you as something you should try to look like it. I clearly think it is possible for male female friendship, but I do not think it is possible when the man has a scarcity frame of mind (he has very few options with women). I think a man should really be desinterested about a sexual relationship with a woman to become a friend and this can only happen if his sexual need are adressed with somebody else (one or more girls).
I've noticed that a lot of guys like to point to ladder theory, either directly or through links or indirectly by spouting the ideas of ladder theory almost verbatim . http://ladderwiki.com/wiki/Ladder_Theory
Well in fact woman and men are both emotional and rational there is nothing to argue there. I just meant women are more emotional, they generally bth see it easier in other individuals and feel it stronger. On top of that, where men are easily attracted by what they see women are more attracted by what they feel (no notion of love there which I think is a more complex subject).
About ladder theory, had never heard of it, some truths and garbage but a very negative way of seeing things nonetheless. It also feel like a complicated nerdy way of seeing it where just having a few better mindsets should be a lot better.
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Sounds like everyone here is just over-thinking the whole social interaction thing. Just say how you feel and damn the consequences. If it freaks her out then you quit bugging her, if she's into you go from there. Truth is like the simplest route to ever take, but we make it so difficult sometimes. Take time to yourself, find out what YOU really want. And then do it. If you REALLY want her then tell her so and she'll either 1.reject or 2.accept. From there the path splits, Accept: go out with her. Don't go out with her. Reject: Stalk. Do not stalk. All simple choices based on simple social acceptablity + what you desire. THIS IS NOT HARD. I'm in love with my Best friend and my wife, I've told both of them this so that's there's no confusion or misgivings. And they are really good friends now. It's not a huge deal as long as you don't over-react to your feelings. Just because I'm in love with my best friend and totally want to tap that doesn't mean our friendship will dissolve because of a simple truth. Explain how you feel and how you won't let it get b/w what you want and what you need. I need a friend way more than a lay. My wife knows all this and my friend knows all this and what will come will come regardless of how much one will obsess over it. You can hide and you can lie but does it make you happy to do these things? Wouldn't it all be so much simpler if you just said what you felt and let it course out from there. All those nights you stay up pondering what-ifs are gone. No more stressing over how they feel. Just do it, not like you got much to lose that you won't lose anyway by lying about stuff. All you are doing is delaying the inevitable and causing yourself undue harm in the process.
Ten signing out.
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My experience is relatively limited, but I remember knowing how it felt the last time I thought I had a good shot with this girl in one of my classes.
Anytime things didn't go as I wanted them to, I would get anxious and worrisome about it. I would try to look for hidden meanings in what she said, and I would generally behave in a way that was detrimental to my ultimate goal.
In the end, I was honest with myself, and I was honest with her. Instead of getting angry or sad, just take a deep breath, relax, and stop worrying.
Maybe it'll work out with her, and maybe it won't. There's no reason to consider any woman (or man) to be special and significant in your life until long past the first date. She should be trying just as hard to win you over as you are to win her over.
If it doesn't work out, fuck it. If you get rejected, fuck it.
Humans are complex creatures with their own thoughts, experiences, and desires, and there aren't any rules, exactly. Furthermore, people aren't always logical, so a person's behavior may have very complicated reasoning behind it you can't yet understand. Just go with it.
Don't be a doormat, but give the girl some space, too.
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Best Poster on Teamliquid:
Luddite
Baller
Kakera
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lol here is my advice. Do not get angry and so caught up in every fault that occurs. You seem like a cool kid so be aloof to the petty stuff that happens and be the better person. If she is a bitch then let her but don't stoop to her level or let that stuff get to you.
Stay cool bro
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On November 16 2010 07:09 paper wrote:
It's over.
DELETE FROM FACEBOOK, HIT THE GYM
LOL! ha come on man be optimistic
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On November 16 2010 08:30 Kennigit wrote:
I've had this happen to me before, its a product of acting too needy and letting it move too fast without being really involved with her. Theres a couple things you can do to save/fix this.
- Don't talk to her that much. Shes not your fucking wife - give her the pleasure or thinking and missing you and wondering why you aren't on msn.
- Be the one the cut off convo cause you are busy doing stuff.
- It's really important that you don't make a deal of this, but let her know that her behavior is unacceptable. Dont chase after her. You actually have a much better chance of success if you tell her that you have other things you can do in your time and her cancelling that late is unacceptable - if she wants to go out, she can call you.
- Girls subconsciously do this stuff to test how much bullshit you will put up with and if you are really a man. In my online dating escapades, i had a girl cancel on me 5 hours before we were supposed to meet - i told her that was a her problem, not a me problem and that 5 hours cancel wasn't acceptable. I dropped her and then she chased me about a week after.
- Wait 4-5 days, test the water if she hasn't contacted you already. Then pick it back up, cooly.
The funniest part, people actually think you wrote that.
The better you become at dating the more ridiculous this PUA shit becomes.
Whoever said you should talk to a girl for 20 minutes.. please stfu and stop regurgitating off the PUA manual, you talk to a girl until you A) run out of conversation B) she gets bored
that's when you hang up.
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It's interesting to see someone who has the alpha-mindset so ingrained into themselves that they automatically try to amog someone even when they're online  .
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EPT
