So my in-laws want to have us all get together and play some poker for small amounts of money. They are supposedly very good and have played quite a bit in the past. I have only ever played 1 time where I learned the very basics. In both cases the game is Texas Hold'em, though they have talked about maybe 5 Card Draw.
I really don't even know the hands that you can get and tend to need a cheat sheet so I can keep up. There has to be a better way, any tips on keeping things straight and in order or do I just need to sit down and Memorize it.
I don't care about winning so much as just not being a total noob. The one time I played they said it was obvious what kind of hand I had as I get very fidgety when excited. I definitely need to work on keeping it cool. Is it plausible to got he other way where I stay intense the whole time or is that hard to maintain.
It seems a lot of guys here on TL play poker as well so I thought I would ask for advice. any good resources like Liquidpedia. I can of course search for them, but I am afraid like SC, I found a bunch of poor advice before I found the gold gem of TL.net
Any good guidelines on how to just play a basic game? maybe some SC2 advice I can carry over
Well, in live poker, I always play tight, bluffing is always a good way to lose money. I have that problem with being easy to tell. And I just keep myself distracted from whats on the board to help with that. Maybe cause I don't play with money.
never played poker in my life, but i'd imagine: Huge sunglasses Card covering your Faces Popped Collar if u cant stop fidgetting, ALWAYS fidget, so atleast its not beneficial for them
On October 13 2010 08:11 Asdkmoga wrote: never played poker in my life, but i'd imagine: Huge sunglasses Card covering your Faces Popped Collar if u cant stop fidgetting, ALWAYS fidget, so atleast its not beneficial for them
you forgot the ipod, white ear buds, and not noticing when you're first to act.
edit: oh and teaching the table how to play. because everyone else is terrible.
To get the hang of the rules/hands why not play some quick free online poker? Practice following what's going on and what hands beat what... if you screw up it doesn't matter!
Michael Bowling's work in learning poker strategies should be extremely helpful to you. It should only take you a few minutes to read and you can implement the strategy into your play quite easily.
Seriously, though, there's always pokerstrategy.com, they sponsored the TSL2. They have some easy-to-follow strategies. I'm not sure how applicable they would be to a friendly table game of poker, though, they're moreso about playing internet poker. The most important thing to know is that you should be playing a lot tighter than you think you should be - it's typically very cheap to fold compared to playing a mediocre hand.
For playing a little bit at a get together being the better player probably won't matter a ton. If you're not confident just find a place that lists the top 15 or so starting hands and play those. Although it's more fun to play more hands! Not always more profitable though unless you know how to play it right.
Well, having started playing poker at age 7, i can give you a few pointers.
1. Unless you get a really good hand within the first few hands, you can spend your time observing the opponent's habits, their tells, their betting styles. 2. If you get a pocket pair (two of the same card in your hand) , it doesn't mean you are unbeatable. Play slow until you are sure you have a decent hand, or at least are the most likely to win. 3. If you get a good hand, treat it just like any other hand you have. They are just cards, nothing to get excited about. This will help reduce some of your tells.
Learn to be an aggressive player. If you just sit and wait for a good hand and then want to wait out your opponents and play the amazing hand you have, experienced players will read you like a book, and you will just lose all your money.
Poker is not a place for someone who's passive and just sits and hopes for the best. Typically, those players are still holding on to the belief that poker is random when it clearly isn't.
On October 13 2010 08:00 rastaban wrote: So my in-laws want to have us all get together and play some poker for small amounts of money. They are supposedly very good and have played quite a bit in the past. I have only ever played 1 time where I learned the very basics. In both cases the game is Texas Hold'em, though they have talked about maybe 5 Card Draw.
I really don't even know the hands that you can get and tend to need a cheat sheet so I can keep up. There has to be a better way, any tips on keeping things straight and in order or do I just need to sit down and Memorize it.
I don't care about winning so much as just not being a total noob. The one time I played they said it was obvious what kind of hand I had as I get very fidgety when excited. I definitely need to work on keeping it cool. Is it plausible to got he other way where I stay intense the whole time or is that hard to maintain.
It seems a lot of guys here on TL play poker as well so I thought I would ask for advice. any good resources like Liquidpedia. I can of course search for them, but I am afraid like SC, I found a bunch of poor advice before I found the gold gem of TL.net
Any good guidelines on how to just play a basic game? maybe some SC2 advice I can carry over
You'll get more comfortable after you've played for 20 minutes. You'll still give off tells but they'll miss most of them.
Definitely memorize hand rankings. It's hard to win if you don't know the rules of the game You should do more than that and try to figure out how strong your hand is in relation to the board. I.e. 2 pair is a very strong hand if the board is King, Queen, 7, 5, 2 but not very much if it's 9,8,7,6,2 (because any ten or 5 makes a straight and beats your hand).
Other than that bet or raise if you have a strong hand, fold if you have nothing. Don't bet too small, about 2/3 of the pot is usually ok. Yes, you are supposed to keep track of the size of the pot. At least approximately.
Obviously this is very basic but should be enough to give you a chance, if you get lucky.
If you decide to read twoplustwo only post in the Beginners' section at first. Those guys can be unfriendly to newbies
Since it's a friendly game with friends and low amounts of money, don't bother learning poker and just have fun/splash around. Trying to get good takes 90% of the enjoyment out of the game.
On October 13 2010 08:43 T.O.P. wrote: Whoa, when did the word poker stop getting underlined and linked to liquidpoker?
Wasn't it like that for YEARS? it's been there for as long as i can remember.
wow I didn't even notice they changed it :D
OP: LP.net and 2+2 are amazing sources, and if you have any more specific questions as your education progresses don't be afraid to post on those sites...
On October 13 2010 10:06 geometryb wrote: Since it's a friendly game with friends and low amounts of money, don't bother learning poker and just have fun/splash around. Trying to get good takes 90% of the enjoyment out of the game.
I don't plan on being "good" but I would at least like the game to be fun.
On October 13 2010 08:34 micronesia wrote: To get the hang of the rules/hands why not play some quick free online poker? Practice following what's going on and what hands beat what... if you screw up it doesn't matter!
This is a great idea. I found a site with computers I can practice against. Once I am comfortable, any free sites that anyone recommends?
On October 13 2010 08:08 LSB wrote:
Well, in live poker, I always play tight, bluffing is always a good way to lose money.
This was great advice. I assumed you always played ever hand until at least the three cards were revealed. I have to remember to be more conservative.
Everyone who posted guides thanks so much reading through them now.
I have questions about learning poker (albeit not as basic as knowing what a pair is etc). How do you calculate your chances of winning any certain hand? I always hear people talking about things like "Oh you should play that hand, it has good pot odds." Or if its worth it to play when you've already put in a good amount of chips (when are you pot committed?).
The only person I played with (I play tournaments with my friends for $10 buy ins) who understood this stuff is now at Harvard haha, so I always assumed that this kind of stuff was for geniuses or something (he tried to explain it to me but at the time I was like fuck this math shit, I just wanna play some poker for fun).
Seriously, though, there's always pokerstrategy.com, they sponsored the TSL2. They have some easy-to-follow strategies. I'm not sure how applicable they would be to a friendly table game of poker, though, they're moreso about playing internet poker. The most important thing to know is that you should be playing a lot tighter than you think you should be - it's typically very cheap to fold compared to playing a mediocre hand.
pokerstrategy.com is really good...why is it not available for US?
anyways I second this, you really should not be bluffing that often, don't try to follow western movies where the guys are pulling huge bluffs all the time.
On October 13 2010 10:34 BcGladiator wrote: I have questions about learning poker (albeit not as basic as knowing what a pair is etc). How do you calculate your chances of winning any certain hand? I always hear people talking about things like "Oh you should play that hand, it has good pot odds." Or if its worth it to play when you've already put in a good amount of chips (when are you pot committed?).
The only person I played with (I play tournaments with my friends for $10 buy ins) who understood this stuff is now at Harvard haha, so I always assumed that this kind of stuff was for geniuses or something (he tried to explain it to me but at the time I was like fuck this math shit, I just wanna play some poker for fun).
It isn't. A lot of it can be boiled down to simple intuition if you play frequently. Check out pokerstrategy.com's free instructional on playing short stack. That will give you a good idea about concepts like positional advantage.
This may sound simple and extremely intuitive, but poker is gambling. Think about it this way:
Lets say you have a decent hand, e.g. low-ish suited connectors (same suit, and one after the other like 7 of hearts and 8 of hearts), depending on the number of people you're playing with you won't always want to play this hand. Say you're the first to bet, meaning no one before you has put money in except for the small and big blinds. By calling and putting in your money you are essentially gambling on a hand that is only decent for an empty pot. This is a bad idea, you should instead fold.
HOWEVER, if you are the last to bet and everyone before you has called, it might be a good idea to gamble for that large pot since your suited connectors do have a small chance of winning a big hand, along with that big pot.
This may sound simple and extremely intuitive, but poker is gambling. Think about it this way:
Lets say you have a decent hand, e.g. low-ish suited connectors (same suit, and one after the other like 7 of hearts and 8 of hearts), depending on the number of people you're playing with you won't always want to play this hand. Say you're the first to bet, meaning no one before you has put money in except for the small and big blinds. By calling and putting in your money you are essentially gambling on a hand that is only decent for an empty pot. This is a bad idea, you should instead fold.
HOWEVER, if you are the last to bet and everyone before you has called, it might be a good idea to gamble for that large pot since your suited connectors do have a small chance of winning a big hand, along with that big pot.
Make sense?
Yeah that makes sense.
But how about calculating your odds of winning? Like lets say you have a certain hand (I'm just picking something at random here) like K-Q, and the flop comes K-10-5 (again, completely random). Is it possible (I guess feasible is a better word) to calculate your chances of winning, then have those chances dictate how much you should bet/call/re-raise, or is that just retarded of me to imagine (I have no idea if this is completely unreasonable, or something that people do fairly regularly)? Like "Oh, there is a 70% chance that I have the best hand. There for I should bet X% of my chips / X% of the pot"
This may sound simple and extremely intuitive, but poker is gambling. Think about it this way:
Lets say you have a decent hand, e.g. low-ish suited connectors (same suit, and one after the other like 7 of hearts and 8 of hearts), depending on the number of people you're playing with you won't always want to play this hand. Say you're the first to bet, meaning no one before you has put money in except for the small and big blinds. By calling and putting in your money you are essentially gambling on a hand that is only decent for an empty pot. This is a bad idea, you should instead fold.
HOWEVER, if you are the last to bet and everyone before you has called, it might be a good idea to gamble for that large pot since your suited connectors do have a small chance of winning a big hand, along with that big pot.
Make sense?
Yeah that makes sense.
But how about calculating your odds of winning? Like lets say you have a certain hand (I'm just picking something at random here) like K-Q, and the flop comes K-10-5 (again, completely random). Is it possible (I guess feasible is a better word) to calculate your chances of winning, then have those chances dictate how much you should bet/call/re-raise, or is that just retarded of me to imagine (I have no idea if this is completely unreasonable, or something that people do fairly regularly)? Like "Oh, there is a 70% chance that I have the best hand. There for I should bet X% of my chips / X% of the pot"
Your brain calculates very precise odds like this all the time without you realizing it. It's where your game sense in SC comes from. Think about how impressive it is being able to instantly judge whether a near maxed army of yours will beat the opponent's compared to a simple poker hand.
Check out pokerstrategy.com and I think you will surprise yourself with how naturally it comes to you after your experience with SC.
Haha thanks Sinensis. Just talking about it whets my appetite for some poker.
Where's the best place to play poker online (for low stakes kind of stuff)? And how easy is it to get started (I assume you need a credit card or bank account or something? I've never done it before)?
On October 13 2010 12:02 BcGladiator wrote: Haha thanks Sinensis. Just talking about it whets my appetite for some poker.
Where's the best place to play poker online (for low stakes kind of stuff)? And how easy is it to get started (I assume you need a credit card or bank account or something? I've never done it before)?
I play at pokerstars.net. Their client is nice and easy to multitab with if you like playing many tables at once. Refer to this for additional options: http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-room-reviews
if youre just screwing around with family, play free tables until you learn the hand rankings and basic play (what blinds are, how betting goes, etc)
dont even worry about actual strategy at a small cash game with friends, most of it isn't even applicable.
the best way to play these games is just by picking someone to fuck with all game. whenever i play small cash games with my brother, i go out of my way to ignore the rules and just bet him out of the pot and make him feel like a pussy. it's a giant pissing match. even better is fucking with people to the right of you.
betting goes left, so at certain points, you'll bet at the end after everyone. there's few things more satisfying than having the table all limp in (just bet the minimum) before the dealer places cards down and you just raising it at the end just because. in person, everyone goes ballistic. or they get angry and play and then you smoke them.
i pretty much play home poker games with the intention of finding out how much of a dick I can be without getting my teeth kicked in
This may sound simple and extremely intuitive, but poker is gambling. Think about it this way:
Lets say you have a decent hand, e.g. low-ish suited connectors (same suit, and one after the other like 7 of hearts and 8 of hearts), depending on the number of people you're playing with you won't always want to play this hand. Say you're the first to bet, meaning no one before you has put money in except for the small and big blinds. By calling and putting in your money you are essentially gambling on a hand that is only decent for an empty pot. This is a bad idea, you should instead fold.
HOWEVER, if you are the last to bet and everyone before you has called, it might be a good idea to gamble for that large pot since your suited connectors do have a small chance of winning a big hand, along with that big pot.
Make sense?
Yeah that makes sense.
But how about calculating your odds of winning? Like lets say you have a certain hand (I'm just picking something at random here) like K-Q, and the flop comes K-10-5 (again, completely random). Is it possible (I guess feasible is a better word) to calculate your chances of winning, then have those chances dictate how much you should bet/call/re-raise, or is that just retarded of me to imagine (I have no idea if this is completely unreasonable, or something that people do fairly regularly)? Like "Oh, there is a 70% chance that I have the best hand. There for I should bet X% of my chips / X% of the pot"
I was reading the guides posted and came across this which answers your questions:
The next card off will be a club 20% of the time. Since he bets $0.02 into a $0.16 pot.. he's betting less than 20% of the pot. That's why you're happy to call.
So how did I know it was 20%? First, you count your outs (cards that you think will make you win the pot). In this case, you think only the 9 clubs left in the deck will give you the winning hand. Now we multiply 9 by 2, getting 18. We now add this number to 2 getting 20.. that's the percentage: 20%. So it's simple really: number of outs times two plus two.
I don't know the match behind it but pretty cool if it is accurate. Any of math pros know why this works?
On October 14 2010 04:39 Hawk wrote: if youre just screwing around with family, play free tables until you learn the hand rankings and basic play (what blinds are, how betting goes, etc)
dont even worry about actual strategy at a small cash game with friends, most of it isn't even applicable.
the best way to play these games is just by picking someone to fuck with all game. whenever i play small cash games with my brother, i go out of my way to ignore the rules and just bet him out of the pot and make him feel like a pussy. it's a giant pissing match. even better is fucking with people to the right of you.
betting goes left, so at certain points, you'll bet at the end after everyone. there's few things more satisfying than having the table all limp in (just bet the minimum) before the dealer places cards down and you just raising it at the end just because. in person, everyone goes ballistic. or they get angry and play and then you smoke them.
i pretty much play home poker games with the intention of finding out how much of a dick I can be without getting my teeth kicked in
Oh wow, this might be the best thing ever. I would still need to learn the basics but messing with peoples heads might be where it is at! I love the raise at the end idea.
This may sound simple and extremely intuitive, but poker is gambling. Think about it this way:
Lets say you have a decent hand, e.g. low-ish suited connectors (same suit, and one after the other like 7 of hearts and 8 of hearts), depending on the number of people you're playing with you won't always want to play this hand. Say you're the first to bet, meaning no one before you has put money in except for the small and big blinds. By calling and putting in your money you are essentially gambling on a hand that is only decent for an empty pot. This is a bad idea, you should instead fold.
HOWEVER, if you are the last to bet and everyone before you has called, it might be a good idea to gamble for that large pot since your suited connectors do have a small chance of winning a big hand, along with that big pot.
Make sense?
Yeah that makes sense.
But how about calculating your odds of winning? Like lets say you have a certain hand (I'm just picking something at random here) like K-Q, and the flop comes K-10-5 (again, completely random). Is it possible (I guess feasible is a better word) to calculate your chances of winning, then have those chances dictate how much you should bet/call/re-raise, or is that just retarded of me to imagine (I have no idea if this is completely unreasonable, or something that people do fairly regularly)? Like "Oh, there is a 70% chance that I have the best hand. There for I should bet X% of my chips / X% of the pot"
Your brain calculates very precise odds like this all the time without you realizing it. It's where your game sense in SC comes from. Think about how impressive it is being able to instantly judge whether a near maxed army of yours will beat the opponent's compared to a simple poker hand.
Check out pokerstrategy.com and I think you will surprise yourself with how naturally it comes to you after your experience with SC.
what a ridiculous way to not answer the question. You can easily google any pot odds chart to set you in the right direction for winning a hand.
You have to be able to judge when you're ahead and when you're not, when you're behind you can then calculate the odds required to make your hand by the river if you're behind. And figuring out pf odds is more in relation to what hands your opponents are playing as to if your hand has any value.
The general theory is big draw hands are better in multi way pots because you get a better price for your hand, and huge pf hands like big pocket pairs are good at winning medium sized pots with few players.
it would take me a long time to explain all the math behind different situations lol, but im sure alot of this is easy to google if you play around with it.
read the guides at LP. focus on starting hands, position and betting amounts/raising amounts (if you dont know what to bet at some point betting 2/3 pot is pretty much always a good amount or if your raising a bet somewhere between 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 the raise).
everything else you just gotta play a lot of volume to get how things work
The next card off will be a club 20% of the time. Since he bets $0.02 into a $0.16 pot.. he's betting less than 20% of the pot. That's why you're happy to call.
So how did I know it was 20%? First, you count your outs (cards that you think will make you win the pot). In this case, you think only the 9 clubs left in the deck will give you the winning hand. Now we multiply 9 by 2, getting 18. We now add this number to 2 getting 20.. that's the percentage: 20%. So it's simple really: number of outs times two plus two.
I don't know the match behind it but pretty cool if it is accurate. Any of math pros know why this works?
Choosing any 1 card out of 50 is 2% (52 cards in a deck minus your 2 hole cards). Choosing any one of 9 cards out of 50 is simply 18%. However, depending on whether you're on the turn or flop, there will be 46 or 47 unknown cards, not exactly 50, so 2% is added to give you a close estimate. It's easier than thinking of your odds as 9/47 or 9/46, and for poker purposes, 20% is close enough to the real value of 19.1% / 19.6%.
So I've been following/lurking in this thread since it was made and reading a lot of the information that was linked. I kinda feel like throwing some money at it for shits and giggles, but I dunno how I feel about putting my SSN and bank information into pokerstars. Probably a stupid fear, but is there anyone that can attest to the safety of the transactions?
On October 14 2010 09:55 Artifice wrote: So I've been following/lurking in this thread since it was made and reading a lot of the information that was linked. I kinda feel like throwing some money at it for shits and giggles, but I dunno how I feel about putting my SSN and bank information into pokerstars. Probably a stupid fear, but is there anyone that can attest to the safety of the transactions?
I deposited $150 into PokerStars some time last year, won $30 over two months, and withdrew everything. I've since been busy with school and haven't had time to play anymore, but I can attest that I wasn't swindled or anything. I paid through e-check straight from a bank account not a credit card. Can't say anything about any other method of payment.
On October 13 2010 10:18 rastaban wrote: Thanks guys for the advice.
On October 13 2010 08:34 micronesia wrote: To get the hang of the rules/hands why not play some quick free online poker? Practice following what's going on and what hands beat what... if you screw up it doesn't matter!
This is a great idea. I found a site with computers I can practice against. Once I am comfortable, any free sites that anyone recommends?
Anyone else feel that the play money games play out WAAAY different from even the 0.01/0.02 and 0.02/0.05 games? If you just want to learn the dynamics of the game then I guess it's alright but I found it frustrating to play with people who are okay with throwing around 10000 play dollars but who would piss their pants in a 15 cent pot (like me).
Poker strategy is awesome, lot of videos and articles, nice forum, bankroll to start etc ...
Liquid Poker is pretty good too but it is different, lot of fun and interesting things to read but also lot of trolls some degens and overall many rude people. NeillyJQ , Baal etc ...
People aren't nice there, except a couple of regulars and mods so you have to be humble because they enjoy noobash.
There are also a lot of better sites out there (albeit, they are not free) including:
BlueFirePoker, LeggoPoker, CardRunners, DeucesCracked, Grinderschool, and a few other low-key ones. All are worth their weight in gold, if not for poker learning, then just hearing someones voice talk about poker, getting your mind in the right direction.
Or just go to blockbuster/netflix/whatever you use and watch rounders. the story of a degen with horrible bankroll management, watches 1 episode of WSOP on TV from the 1980's and thinks he's good enough to gamble with the best.
Pretty much whatever he does in the movie, you do the exact opposite and you'll be ok!
On October 14 2010 12:09 FiBsTeR wrote: Anyone else feel that the play money games play out WAAAY different from even the 0.01/0.02 and 0.02/0.05 games? If you just want to learn the dynamics of the game then I guess it's alright but I found it frustrating to play with people who are okay with throwing around 10000 play dollars but who would piss their pants in a 15 cent pot (like me).
Wow, you weren't joking. I played some free tables last night to just get a little bit of the hang of the game but it was crazy the hands people were going all-in on. It is obviously quite a different game when there is nothing at risk. At least I got to see some game flow though.
I followed some of the basic advice from the sites that you all posted and ended up doing very well. The biggest thing is patience, I had to constantly fight not playing hands just because everyone else was. It helped to watch some SC2 while I waited for hands to finish, Since this would be hard to do in real life what do you do while waiting for a playable hand?
EPT
You should do more than that and try to figure out how strong your hand is in relation to the board. I.e. 2 pair is a very strong hand if the board is King, Queen, 7, 5, 2 but not very much if it's 9,8,7,6,2 (because any ten or 5 makes a straight and beats your hand). 
