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[SC2] BW feeling ZvT Build Idea

Blogs > Impervious
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Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4220 Posts
September 23 2010 06:58 GMT
#1
This is no solid Build Order, which is why I labeled it as an "idea".....

I tried a few games as Z (somewhere around 30). The first 3 or 4, I tried using Queens. I hated it..... But I wanted to come up with some kind of non-cheese build idea that would be safe, and get me to the mid/late-game, as well as give me some aggressive options.

I thought - A Queen with perfect injections is basically the equivalent of 1 and a bit Hatcheries worth of Larvae.

Unfortunately, I was always attempting a speedling into 2 hatch muta style, for map control..... I wanted to play it a lot like I would play BW - use Speedlings to get map control, tech to Spire, hold off the timing push with D structures, then harass with the Mutas when I fend off the push, then gain complete map control, while I expand. When I was doing this with queens, I found that I had a lot of excess larvae or energy on my queens..... And I hated having to go back every 25 seconds to inject again.....

So I decided to stop using Queens (this was actually about 2 days before Day[9]'s No Queen daily - no joke).

Of course, I still wanted to open with fast speedlings, but I found this left me open to mass Hellion and mass Reaper strats. So I had to incorporate a Roach Warren. I worked on the timings for this quite a bit, until I got it right (you do have to hold them back with Speedlings for a bit if it is an insanely fast rush, but any earlier really hurts your economy). I also wanted to fast expand. The timing works out great if you don't make a queen, believe it or not.

Of course, a friend of mine decided to go for a fast Marine/Hellion drop once, and it completely destroyed me, since my Defenses were caught out of position..... To get around that, I realized that I need to scout with an Overseer. Contaminate the Starport is the goal, but even knowing what type of thing is coming is completely necessary for Z. Even if I can't contaminate it, I can spend 300 minerals on Spine Crawlers in my main as well, and be relatively safe, while still giving me time to actually have them build before the arrival of the drop.

I've been demolished by giant M/M/M balls on a few occasions, making me realize that I need some Infestors for FG before I can safely tech to Hive for Ultras.

Once I get 3+ bases, I then tech to Ultras, getting upgrades and other unit producing structures as needed.

Summed up, this is incredibly gas heavy. The basic build order (for the first ~20 supply, since things are going to change as you adapt to what they do) is here:

+ Show Spoiler +
NO QUEENS!!!!!

10/10 - Overlord
13/18 - Extractor
13/18 - Spawning Pool
15/18 - 6 Zerglings, Metabolic Boost, remove 2 Drones from Extractor
18/18 - Hatchery, Overlord
17/18 - 2 Zerglings
18/18 - Extractor
~20/26 - Roach Warren - Put drones back on Extractor
@ 100 gas - Lair
@ 100% Hatchery - 1 Spine Crawler, transfer 6+ drones.
Make more Spine Crawlers, Zerglings, and Roaches as needed. Power as many drones as possible.
@ 100% Lair - Spire, Overseer, Extractors at nat. Scout with Oversseer. If there is a starport, Contaminate it.
Inbase Hatchery @ 300 excess minerals (or now would be the time for a Queen, if you wanted to make Queens).

When scouting with the Overseer, make some kind of feint attack with the Zerglings, to draw any Marines towards his ramp, allowing you to get in and likely still get out with the Overseer.

After I get ~12 Mutalisks, put down 2 Evolution Chambers, start researching upgrade for Air as well. Put down Baneling Next, Infestor Pit, and expand (getting both geysers asap).

Tech to Ultras or Broodlords, staying on mainly Muta/Ling/Bling/Roach/Infestors. If they go heavy air, use Corruptors as well. Grab 4th+ base, and add inbase hatcheries as needed (usually not needed).


This entire build is designed to get as much gas as possible, and the tech options to counter what your opponent is doing. This means you need to scout really well. It is also really easy to macro, since there are no queens (it can still be done with queens, but to get this stuff so quick, you need to delay the queens by a long time). Because the main units are fast, creep spreading is not as much of an issue either. Adding in a Nydus Network is also doable, but I prefer to keep the Mutas floating around, harassing wherever possible instead.

This build feels a lot like BW - Expanding a lot, with speedlings into Mutas (having to hold off a timing push), which then harass until they get the right counter to the mutas (usually marine/thor), to which you get the counter to them (instead of lurkers, you get Infestors and/or banelings), and then head to hive tech (broodlords instead of guardians or ultras, but no defilers). I feel like I am in control of the match, the entire time. And every loss so far has been completely preventable, if I responded right (which is easier said than done, I realize, but the more I analyze it, the more I can predict this type of stuff and make changes to take it into consideration).

And, this is not against some dumb opponents. This is against some mid diamond T players (400 to 1000 pts). I'm somewhere around the same level, with my primary race (T).....

I'm still in the process of refining it as well.

And this is in Blogs because its probably a terrible idea. It's definitely not deserving of a spot in the Strategy section.....

It also made me realize how much I missed 2 of the BW units..... The Lurker, and the Scourge.....

~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
September 23 2010 07:08 GMT
#2
Doesn't this die to banshees? That's the primary purpose of building queens over hatches - safety from air. Perhaps you could panic some spores up while hoping to god your spire finishes but it's going to put you awfully behind.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Too_MuchZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Finland2818 Posts
September 23 2010 07:10 GMT
#3
Only problem I see already is how to defend against banshee harass as no queens nor spores. Unless you timed it so that mutas and overseer is out exact time when banshee is coming.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4220 Posts
September 23 2010 07:13 GMT
#4
I didn't have a problem the one time I faced it (the overseer was there to contaminate his starport before the banshee finished). Proxy starports would be a problem though.....
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4220 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 07:14:47
September 23 2010 07:14 GMT
#5
Crap..... Now I gotta figure out a way of dealing with proxy starports..... And I haven't had to face 2 port banshees either.....
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Invictus
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Singapore2697 Posts
September 23 2010 08:43 GMT
#6
You're gonna have a lack of creep in this build =/
Lee Jaedong Fighting!
trevabob
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom350 Posts
September 23 2010 09:25 GMT
#7
On September 23 2010 17:43 Invictus wrote:
You're gonna have a lack of creep in this build =/


Did you read the OP? He does address this issue
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4220 Posts
September 23 2010 16:53 GMT
#8
On September 23 2010 17:43 Invictus wrote:
You're gonna have a lack of creep in this build =/

If I had another 100 APM, using a couple of Queens for injections and making a bunch of tumors to spread them around would be doable..... Sadly, I'm stuck with my ~80-90 in-game apm (not sure what that translates to, probably around 120-130 real-time apm).

I'm still not sure how to deal with 2 port..... I can probably contaminate 1 of them, if they're in his base, and if I scout really well, I might be able to find any proxy starports and shut them down with speedlings..... But I'm not sure how to deal with 2 port..... 2 spore crawlers at each base, while I contaminate 1 of his starports may give me enough time to get the mutas out..... Will have to test that.....
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
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