• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:11
CET 07:11
KST 15:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
Effort misses out on ASL S21 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10
Tourneys
[BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 BWCL Season 64 Announcement
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1976 users

Ladder Feels Pointless

Blogs > Ndugu
Post a Reply
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
August 22 2010 22:28 GMT
#1
I'm trying to get my point across without sounding like I'm QQing. Of course the only replies to this blog are going to be insults about my QQing. Fuck you in advance. Thanks for understanding.

I feel I'm very good at this game. I win almost 100% of my straight up macro games, I have high APM without spamming, etc.

But every time I lose to someone who cannon rushes or 2gate proxies me... they end up being close to Rank 1 Diamond. Sure, more often than not I beat the cheese, but god fucking knows those people are winning a higher percentage of their ladder games than I am.

Playing videogames is a waste of time. It is, most of the time, for me, a very pleasant waste of time. But situations like this, where I realize the ladder grind isn't making me any better at the game because of crap like that, makes me want to evaluate my lifestyle and find a new hobby.

The fact that people can cheese their way to MUCH higher spots on ladder than those who actually play is infuriating.

Protoss players cheesing makes me want to stop laddering. I imagine that without Cheese Protoss is a little underpowered at a high-level and would need to be buffed-- but because the Cheese is so strong on ladder Toss won't get touched.

Played random for a bit today because I was so sick of PvP... 2gate in base when I played Zerg, roflstomped some guy as Terran (god its easy, sorry Terran players) and got 2gate in base + cannon rushed in PvP. Guy was having a conversation with me in chat =/

Apart from that, I've won almost all of my actual macro games today. And yet, I'm going to stay in the same spot on ladder and play against people of the same skill level. I'm getting bored of every Terran losing to a gateway/void ray push. etc.

Yes I am mad, so stfu umad people.

Anyone else feeling pretty much done with ladder? How do I start just playing custom games against skilled players/tournaments, whatever doesn't amount to Cheese 1/3 games.

***
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
August 22 2010 22:30 GMT
#2
Scout for cheese, adapt, win!
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
August 22 2010 22:32 GMT
#3
I am having a motherfucking ball with ladder and am not running into any of these problems really.

That said, sign up for tournaments if you feel they're better. They're just to your left.
:O
NexUmbra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Scotland3776 Posts
August 22 2010 22:32 GMT
#4
Yeah, diamond needs standards :/

People say it will fix itself in a few months but i didn't actually read why it would do that, hope for the best i guess...
Life has won two GSLs and a Blizzard Cup. NOT three GSLs.
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
August 22 2010 22:35 GMT
#5
On August 23 2010 07:32 NexUmbra wrote:
Yeah, diamond needs standards :/

People say it will fix itself in a few months but i didn't actually read why it would do that, hope for the best i guess...


Probably when they add a league above diamond.
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
August 22 2010 22:37 GMT
#6
On August 23 2010 07:32 choboPEon wrote:
I am having a motherfucking ball with ladder and am not running into any of these problems really.

That said, sign up for tournaments if you feel they're better. They're just to your left.


What race do you play, if you don't mind my asking?
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
August 22 2010 22:41 GMT
#7
On August 23 2010 07:37 Ndugu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2010 07:32 choboPEon wrote:
I am having a motherfucking ball with ladder and am not running into any of these problems really.

That said, sign up for tournaments if you feel they're better. They're just to your left.


What race do you play, if you don't mind my asking?


The most evil race, the bane of your existence and the cause of all disease in the world. Terran.

I'm sure it is different with P but I am hardly ever being cheesed. When I am, I take it and see what I can do to counter. I'm having a great time on the ladder.
:O
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
August 22 2010 22:46 GMT
#8
On August 23 2010 07:41 choboPEon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2010 07:37 Ndugu wrote:
On August 23 2010 07:32 choboPEon wrote:
I am having a motherfucking ball with ladder and am not running into any of these problems really.

That said, sign up for tournaments if you feel they're better. They're just to your left.


What race do you play, if you don't mind my asking?


The most evil race, the bane of your existence and the cause of all disease in the world. Terran.

I'm sure it is different with P but I am hardly ever being cheesed. When I am, I take it and see what I can do to counter. I'm having a great time on the ladder.


Been thinking of switching to T due to relative immunity to Protoss Cheese (protoss is weakest to it, hilariously enough), and the free wins versus Zerg. =/
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
August 22 2010 22:47 GMT
#9
If you're not having fun playing P, switch. The whole point is to have fun. Just get ready for an onslaught of death threats if you do switch.
:O
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 22:50:09
August 22 2010 22:49 GMT
#10
On August 23 2010 07:47 choboPEon wrote:
If you're not having fun playing P, switch. The whole point is to have fun. Just get ready for an onslaught of death threats if you do switch.


Absolutely. I ADORE Protoss though, and I feel I am VERY good at it, to be frank. I watch a lot of pro games and feel I'm not that far off.

Just PvP kills me, and the fact that, as Toss, cheesing seems to be the best way to get high in ladder X_x

Think I will have to take a rage-reduction break and play Terran just so I can roflstomp some Toss. My TvP is diamonds, plural. ^_^
Motiva
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1774 Posts
August 22 2010 22:50 GMT
#11
I disagree with you saying that these cheesing players aren't making you better. Defeating 100 2gate proxies will definitely improve your game some. I think this is particularly true with some macro games sprinkled in between, and the 2gates being somewhat a surprise. Your critical decision making, micro, execution can all benefit.

All that said, I totally feel your frustration and I too wish I could determine how my opponent plays :D
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
August 22 2010 22:51 GMT
#12
Then I seriously recommend playing tournaments. Getting high in the ladder is nice but doing well in a tournament is cooler and, until Blizz does something, has better rewards for your game and for your ego.

There's so much shit going on all the time that you can't possibly run out of tournaments to play in.
:O
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-22 22:53:26
August 22 2010 22:52 GMT
#13
On August 23 2010 07:50 Motiva wrote:
I disagree with you saying that these cheesing players aren't making you better. Defeating 100 2gate proxies will definitely improve your game some. I think this is particularly true with some macro games sprinkled in between, and the 2gates being somewhat a surprise. Your critical decision making, micro, execution can all benefit.

All that said, I totally feel your frustration and I too wish I could determine how my opponent plays :D


xD

But see, to me beating Cheese barely influences skill. Its either I caught it in time and it was an easy win or I didn't and I lost. I don't even mind the loss, or the terrible terrible shame of losing magical fake points. I just want to be able to get to opponents of similar skill level without having to cheese myself on ladder x_x

But then again PvP and ZvZ are just roll of the dice atm.

But yeah I am going to look into tournies.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
LiuLi Cup Grand Finals Playoff
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft454
mcanning 159
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5896
sSak 27
Bale 25
Icarus 13
League of Legends
JimRising 626
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K423
m0e_tv327
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor90
Other Games
summit1g3700
C9.Mang0305
Tasteless120
RuFF_SC282
NeuroSwarm65
Mew2King22
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV220
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH60
• practicex 59
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 80
• Azhi_Dahaki17
• iopq 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1291
• Lourlo1258
• Stunt458
• HappyZerGling101
Other Games
• Scarra1354
Upcoming Events
Ultimate Battle
5h 49m
Light vs ZerO
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5h 49m
MaxPax vs Spirit
Rogue vs Bunny
Cure vs SHIN
Solar vs Zoun
OSC
11h 49m
Replay Cast
17h 49m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 3h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 5h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 13h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-04
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.