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This has probably been done plenty of times but it's a blog post, hah, so here I go...
I'm a low 700 diamond Protoss player and I suck at Zerg, always have and always will so my suggestions may be somewhat biased towards Protoss/Terran which I'm more familiar with.
The consensus is that Terran > Protoss > Zerg and afaik the imbalances in non-mirror matchups are roughly:
TvP: 6-4
PvZ: 6-4
TvZ: 7-3
Of course, these imbalances are heavily influenced by maps but overall that has been my impression.
Changes for Terran
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1. Selling bunkers is the most absurd thing in the game right now. Nothing should and has been free in BW or SC2 other than bunkers. There is no risk-reward decision making a T has to do. Is there any train of thought that surrounds bunker rushing or spamming bunkers when you think the opponent might all-in rush? No.
Bunker sell value: 50% and based on how much HP the bunker has (Selling bunker with 50% HP -> gives you back 25 minerals).
2. Concussive Shells are too cheap to upgrade. This upgrade is as good as, if not better than, charge upgrade for zealots for example and comes much earlier in the game for 50/50 with ridiculously short research time. Research should cost 100/100 MINIMUM considering how broken this shit is and increase research time by 15 seconds.
And I'd like to add that it's not fun playing normal speed against fastest -_- since the 1st day I played SC2 I always thought this ability was not in the 'spirit' of Starcraft, which is about fast vs fast (zerglings vs. vultures), not handicapping the other guy so that he can't do shit about it. So either what I mentioned above or reduce the slow % significantly.
3. Banshees range from 6 to 5. They 2 shot workers which is already powerful and are strong enough in combat regardless of whether the opponent has detection or not, which is counter intuitive (I know SC2 is a different game but compare their game-breakingness to surprise wraiths in BW for example). I feel that the surprise factors of banshees are devastating enough as it is (need anti-air + detection fairly early on in the game) but the fact that they have 6 range makes it so that the defending side often has to put 2 anti-air structures on their mineral line.
4. Planetory Fortress repair AI. Please auto-attack workers -_-;
5. Ghost EMP cast range nerf. I feel like HT vs Ghost should be at least be fairly matched so the faster player can come out on top with feedback/EMP.
Changes for Protoss
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1. PvP is often a cheese-fest and one possible solution I've thought of is that an enemy pylon can deny warping in if it's in range of the pylon based on who has a closer nexus.
So if I'm trying to 4 gate warp-in and build 3 pylons simultaneously in the other guy's base, he can build 3 pylon's, one next to each one, and I won't be able to warpin to those pylons since his nexus is closer to his pylons than mine. I think this would make PvP more strategic and increase the number of viable strats/playing styles.
2. Switch the costs for the 2 HT upgrades?
3. Increase shield for Warp Prisms and reduce the HP? Would like to see 60HP/100SHIELD as these have a lot of potential but are underused since they're so freaking fragile and often carry non-gateway units which are expensive.
4. 10 second build time reduction on Dark Shrine or 50 gas reduction. This shit is so gas heavy it's not even funny and the 100 sec build time on top of it is a dead giveaway that DTs are coming to the opponent even if you hide it. Comparing DT tech vs Banshee tech, there is less of a risk for banshees considering how hard DTs are stopped compared to banshees when they're scouted.
Changes for Zerg
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1. Queen transfusion should be more efficient to other units. So a Queen should be able to heal a drone using less than 50 mana. For example, it should cost minimum 15 mana and maximum 50 mana and heal to full HP and use up mana based on how much HP is needed to for max heal.
2. Nydus Worms should have +1 armor so it's not so easily denied by mass workers and rewards riskier, low-econ play.
3. +5 HP Hydras.
Yes, I hate Terran.
I also hate Zerg too since my PvZ winrate is pretty sad but I sympathize for them every time I watch TvZ on a stream I'm always thinking to myself: don't play Z.
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Increase shield for Warp Prisms and reduce the HP
and you think that will make warp prisms more durable? lol
Nydus Worms should have +1 armor so it's not so easily denied by mass workers and rewards riskier, low-econ play
nydus worms arent for stupid 1base all in styles. they are to transport your units from A to B so you can spread your expansions and still be able to defend.
i think you should leave the balancing to blizzard  (i know its just a wishlist... i just dont think you would be happy with some of those changes)
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Shields regenerate, HP doesn't which is also why I mentioned a higher total HP to compensate for shield's disadvantages. Higher shield means it can make more trips over non lethal antiair forces. No need to be condescending when you're wrong 
Funny you should say that Nydus worms are for transporting units from A to B to defend expansions (which is strictly your interpretation) since offensive nydus worms are the most common uses I've seen personally. Don't you think the purpose of something like that should be left open? As I see it, 200 HP and 20 Seconds is really weak... you basically need no vision for it to work most of the time considering it costs 100/100.
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720~ diamond terran.
Bunker change I kind of agree with, not sure about the exact numbers/exact implementation though. EMP doesn't need nerfing, nerfing concussive shells would do too much damage to T bio early game aggression (or even defense in some cases, zealots would be ridiculous) and banshees are even't that good to begin with.
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I think the biggest change that needs to come first is making EMP researchable. This spell takes away nearly half of all unit HP AND drains energy. A few good EMPs and you're dead in the water.
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On August 21 2010 19:46 gillon wrote:
720~ diamond terran.
EMP doesn't need nerfing, nerfing concussive shells would do too much damage to T bio early game aggression (or even defense in some cases, zealots would be ridiculous) and banshees are even't that good to begin with.
Must...not...rage...
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On August 21 2010 19:46 gillon wrote:
720~ diamond terran.
why do people keep mentioning this? it's like saying "I'm D on iccup". not very impressive.
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On August 21 2010 19:46 gillon wrote:
720~ diamond terran.
Bunker change I kind of agree with, not sure about the exact numbers/exact implementation though. EMP doesn't need nerfing, nerfing concussive shells would do too much damage to T bio early game aggression (or even defense in some cases, zealots would be ridiculous) and banshees are even't that good to begin with.
That is one thing I have a problem with. It's a lot safer to be aggressive with T because stalkers can only chase down so many units on retreat while failed aggression as P vs mauraders (esp. with stim) can be game deciding. Not to mention that pound for pound, maudaders > stalkers early on.
What is your reasoning for EMP not needing a nerf? It requires no research and so much cheaper in tech building investment.
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Hey, I'm a protoss player too, an even worse rank than you, but i think some of these proposals are pretty good
Terran: agree with all points, but i think selling bunkers should be a flat rate of 50 minerals. as for the shells, i honestly don't know if nerfing the research time or cost itself is enough to truly balance the ability out, it's ridiculously good and forces your army to be in one big ball at all times lest a group of marauders zoom by at light speed with stim, which is a problem in the mid to late game, not the early game. it needs to be neutered a little bit IMO.
Protoss:
1. i actually think this is too obstructive to the original purpose of pylon warp-in, and creates a lot of uncomfortable conflict with its goals. i think a better adjustment is to cause units warping in to receive additional damage during warp, this would make probes attacking warping in units possibly worthwhile, and currently as a protoss player in other scenarios you really don't want to be in the position where you're in a battle and your reinforcements are getting hit warping in, so you're going to continue to build proxy pylons away from major skirmish areas anyway, thus not affecting its proper usage too much.
2. i don't know if this is really necessary, although it would be nice.
3. i totally agree, lol. i want to be able to re-use a warp prism if it receives a few shots on the way in, and right now i feel like if i take more than a few shots that it becomes a liability to use afterward.
4. i would agree to this, but i think the fact that you can transition into archons makes up for how fragile the DT unit is itself. lately ive been using more DT into archon lately, notably against T, and DT's definitely have a use lategame against zerg.
Zerg:
1. So you're saying to make it similar to how terran can repair? i can't really comment, i don't know if it's needed. why is it needed exactly?
2. i think if you do this you need to make their rate of unit recall a little slower or something, as i think nydus worms arent that bad the way they are now, if you make them harder to kill when you legitimately see one pop up and your army is doing something a long way away, then you need to give the zerg more of a reason to think twice about what he is doing, in case you don't get there in time.
3. i don't know if i agree with this, double check if any changes happen with upgraded colossi X-shotting them, i think this could cause a problem
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United States47024 Posts
On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
TvP: 6-4
PvZ: 6-4
TvZ: 7-3
What?
I was of the impression that PvZ is considered almost balanced. Certainly closer than 60-40.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
1. Selling bunkers is the most absurd thing in the game right now. Nothing should and has been free in BW or SC2 other than bunkers. There is no risk-reward decision making a T has to do. Is there any train of thought that surrounds bunker rushing or spamming bunkers when you think the opponent might all-in rush? No.
Bunker sell value: 50% and based on how much HP the bunker has (Selling bunker with 50% HP -> gives you back 25 minerals). Agreed, but reserve the possibility to tweak the numbers based on how it works out. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
2. Concussive Shells are too cheap to upgrade. This upgrade is as good as, if not better than, charge upgrade for zealots for example and comes much earlier in the game for 50/50 with ridiculously short research time. Research should cost 100/100 MINIMUM considering how broken this shit is and increase research time by 15 seconds.
And I'd like to add that it's not fun playing normal speed against fastest -_- since the 1st day I played SC2 I always thought this ability was not in the 'spirit' of Starcraft, which is about fast vs fast (zerglings vs. vultures), not handicapping the other guy so that he can't do shit about it. So either what I mentioned above or reduce the slow % significantly.
3. Banshees range from 6 to 5. They 2 shot workers which is already powerful and are strong enough in combat regardless of whether the opponent has detection or not, which is counter intuitive (I know SC2 is a different game but compare their game-breakingness to surprise wraiths in BW for example). I feel that the surprise factors of banshees are devastating enough as it is (need anti-air + detection fairly early on in the game) but the fact that they have 6 range makes it so that the defending side often has to put 2 anti-air structures on their mineral line. As far as I can tell, both of these are gut-instinct changes. I haven't seen high level players outright say these are issues. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
4. Planetory Fortress repair AI. Please auto-attack workers -_-; Yes. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
5. Ghost EMP cast range nerf. I feel like HT vs Ghost should be at least be fairly matched so the faster player can come out on top with feedback/EMP. Range has nothing to do with it because neither of them will be in the front of your army. More relevant is army positioning and vision, meaning it's a vision war between scan and observers. Also, IMO feedbacking Ghosts is a waste of mana. Use feedback on Medivacs/Banshees, and just lay down Storms against bio: 1) If you trade EMPs/storms reasonably evenly, Protoss still wins because storm is relatively more damaging (compared to the units' health--EMP does 1/3 to 1/2 of a Protoss unit's "health" in damage, and marines taking at least 3 ticks of storm for 30 damage is pretty likely, even if the Terran is fast about moving away), has overlapping effect, and can actually kill units. The only time he should win is if he was significantly faster on EMP than you on storm (range should only account for getting 1 faster EMP), or he got like 3 templar with one EMP (in which case, you screwed up, and you templar weren't spread out enough). 2) You don't need to hit the ghost for storm. Less room for error, doesn't get screwed up by him cloaking or casting, and gives you more range to work with if you're trying to hit his army. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
1. PvP is often a cheese-fest and one possible solution I've thought of is that an enemy pylon can deny warping in if it's in range of the pylon based on who has a closer nexus.
So if I'm trying to 4 gate warp-in and build 3 pylons simultaneously in the other guy's base, he can build 3 pylon's, one next to each one, and I won't be able to warpin to those pylons since his nexus is closer to his pylons than mine. I think this would make PvP more strategic and increase the number of viable strats/playing styles. Don't know enough about PvP to comment. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
2. Switch the costs for the 2 HT upgrades? Probably not switch--Khaydarin Amulet is fine where it is, but Storm might need to be re-evaluated. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
3. Increase shield for Warp Prisms and reduce the HP? Would like to see 60HP/100SHIELD as these have a lot of potential but are underused since they're so freaking fragile and often carry non-gateway units which are expensive. Sure. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
4. 10 second build time reduction on Dark Shrine or 50 gas reduction. This shit is so gas heavy it's not even funny and the 100 sec build time on top of it is a dead giveaway that DTs are coming to the opponent even if you hide it. Comparing DT tech vs Banshee tech, there is less of a risk for banshees considering how hard DTs are stopped compared to banshees when they're scouted. My issue with DTs isn't that they're too slow, but more that the Dark Shrine doesn't transition into anything sensible. I don't know if DTs with Temp Archive turned out to be an issue in testing, but I'd certainly like to know Blizzard's reason for this building. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
1. Queen transfusion should be more efficient to other units. So a Queen should be able to heal a drone using less than 50 mana. For example, it should cost minimum 15 mana and maximum 50 mana and heal to full HP and use up mana based on how much HP is needed to for max heal. Not sure how much of a difference this makes. If it's actually useful it makes sense, but it just feels like a change that muddles the mechanics without actually affecting anything relevant to the game. On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
2. Nydus Worms should have +1 armor so it's not so easily denied by mass workers and rewards riskier, low-econ play.
3. +5 HP Hydras. Don't think these would really change much.
On August 21 2010 19:15 Heen wrote:
Yes, I hate Terran.
I also hate Zerg too since my PvZ winrate is pretty sad but I sympathize for them every time I watch TvZ on a stream I'm always thinking to myself: don't play Z.
I love how despite saying that ZvT imbalance is worse than the other matchups, most of your changes help PvT way more than ZvT. Race bias?
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Nice post, Yango.
I thought up about half of these on the spot and some of the changes are not elegant solutions. It's like writing an essay, reading it immediately afterwards it looks OK, then you re-read it the next day and it seems a lot worse.
As for PvZ, I guess the balance is at worst 6-4, but I still thought it was usually P favored because of the midgame warp gate strength.
Maurader change I feel is needed as mentioned in the reply above where I talk about how aggression is safer for T with concussive shells.
And banshees I feel is too powerful compared to the low risk involved. Usually harassment units rely on good micro and surprise and are otherwise fairly weak in combat (DTs, reapers, hellions). I'm saying 2 shotting workers on top of 6 range is a little bit too much to deal with even with good scouting.
Medivacs and banshees are usually low on mana. Feedback is a great skill but there are more often not good opportunities for it to do enough damage to be worth it than to storm. We also have to look at the case where neither player has ideal micro. The way units keep formation is that HTs, being slow often clump together. Spreading them out is actually very difficult to do every time you think there might be a clash.
I think the 2 HT upgrades, which are both necessary are a bit too much... 350/350 especially since P tech is very gas heavy.
I agree mostly with the rest of your post.
As for the last comment, like I mentioned in the OP, I'm not familiar with Zerg so I'd rather not suggest too much. Still, bunkers and banshee changes would help TvZ tremendously along with the Queen transfusion suggestion which I had in mind for Z surviving the dozen different ways T can harass. Transfusion is most often seen on Queen-to-Queen but I personally thought it should have more possibilities.
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On August 21 2010 21:23 kyarisan wrote:
Hey, I'm a protoss player too, an even worse rank than you, but i think some of these proposals are pretty good
Terran: agree with all points, but i think selling bunkers should be a flat rate of 50 minerals. as for the shells, i honestly don't know if nerfing the research time or cost itself is enough to truly balance the ability out, it's ridiculously good and forces your army to be in one big ball at all times lest a group of marauders zoom by at light speed with stim, which is a problem in the mid to late game, not the early game. it needs to be neutered a little bit IMO.
Protoss:
1. i actually think this is too obstructive to the original purpose of pylon warp-in, and creates a lot of uncomfortable conflict with its goals. i think a better adjustment is to cause units warping in to receive additional damage during warp, this would make probes attacking warping in units possibly worthwhile, and currently as a protoss player in other scenarios you really don't want to be in the position where you're in a battle and your reinforcements are getting hit warping in, so you're going to continue to build proxy pylons away from major skirmish areas anyway, thus not affecting its proper usage too much.
2. i don't know if this is really necessary, although it would be nice.
3. i totally agree, lol. i want to be able to re-use a warp prism if it receives a few shots on the way in, and right now i feel like if i take more than a few shots that it becomes a liability to use afterward.
4. i would agree to this, but i think the fact that you can transition into archons makes up for how fragile the DT unit is itself. lately ive been using more DT into archon lately, notably against T, and DT's definitely have a use lategame against zerg.
Zerg:
1. So you're saying to make it similar to how terran can repair? i can't really comment, i don't know if it's needed. why is it needed exactly?
2. i think if you do this you need to make their rate of unit recall a little slower or something, as i think nydus worms arent that bad the way they are now, if you make them harder to kill when you legitimately see one pop up and your army is doing something a long way away, then you need to give the zerg more of a reason to think twice about what he is doing, in case you don't get there in time.
3. i don't know if i agree with this, double check if any changes happen with upgraded colossi X-shotting them, i think this could cause a problem
Basically going DTs is so gas heavy it's very often a loss if it's hard countered and with its insanely long build time, it often is and like Yango mentioned, it doesn't have a good transition afterwards other than the upgrades at citadel.
And yes, the PvP 'fix' is a sticky situation.
As for transfusion, the ability to heal 125 HP is very restrictive not that it's used that often but compare it to orbital commands, which have 3 awesome abilities (at least 2 awesome, 1 good -_-).
Nydus worms having +1 armor is to prevent them from being killed so easily even if it wasn't prepared for in the least.
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The funny thing is, your suggested changes fix the TvZ match-up probably the least. Planetary Fortress "nerf" or really, targeting priority re-order, is good. Everyone's been talking about that since the beta. But bunker, banshee, and EMP nerf don't do that much to the TvZ match-up.
I kinda want to agree on the dark shrine buff, but at the same time, I don't mind giving players some time to figure it out. Someone I'm sure, will find a reliable use for it in one match-up or another.
I don't like your PvP "fixes." The 4gate all-in is counterable, if you're paying attention. You might not like how quickly the game ends, but it's certainly not an automatic loss. There will always been some early, aggressive strategies, when maps are as small as Steppes of War.
I personally use warp prisms quite a bit, and while I'd appreciate more regenerating shields, I don't mind having to be careful with them. Generally, losing HP on them means either your opponent saw the prism coming, or you were being sloppy.
No about the transfusion, though. Transfusion's supposed to have that issue of costing 50 energy, so that early on, when you're spamming spawn larva, you don't have transfusion. It makes getting the second queen a lot more important. Transfusion is actually really, really, good, which is why the 1 second cooldown was added. (Well, especially really, really good in mass queens + roaches)
I don't think hydras need a buff. They're kind of a tricky unit, but it feels like hydras are meant to be used either as a) anti-air, or b) mass unit when you have the econ advantage. Just like massing stalkers tends to not work (except sorta against protoss), massing just hydras shouldn't be a solid gameplan.
Bunkers in general, seem to be less of an issue than terran mech. The main complaint is that zerg has a hell of a time dealing with siege tanks. Not sure how to fix that, but I think that's the main issue dealing with the TvZ match-up, and your suggestions don't really seem to fix that issue.
Oh, right, and as a protoss player, I'm actually okay with EMP staying the way it is, too.
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I agree with the matchups ratio op listed. Bunker salvage needs to be fixed. Main thing is that it salvages in seconds.
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EPT
