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[H] Dog Guide

Blogs > fnaticAugury
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Augury
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States758 Posts
August 18 2010 17:48 GMT
#1
So I live in the Bay Area and have been interested in getting a dog for the past year. I've finally decided to get one; however, I'm pretty clueless on the procedure of buying a dog or what I should even be looking for.

I've settled on a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/greaterswissmountain.htm

I also have a few different breeds that I'd be interested in as well.

Anyways, I'm basically just asking for advice/help on finding a breeder/shelter, etc..

I'm looking for a puppy and although I'm not opposed to a shelter, I just have pretty big doubts that I'd be able to find one of the breeds I'm looking for at the age I want.

Thanks for any help :D

Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16978 Posts
August 18 2010 17:53 GMT
#2
The first thing you should realize is how expensive it is to maintain and keep dogs. Thousands of dollars a year. If you don't have that kind of cash to spend on a pet, as well as the time commitment to walk it, feed it, etc., then you probably shouldn't get one

Lots of people make this mistake.

Beyond that, if you're ready to adopt a dog, stay away from mall pets or other sources that use illegal/mass breeding sites. Go for reputable breeders who keep tabs on pets' lineages, or simply go to an animal rescue shelter and ask the works for recommendations. Sometimes you have to get past what breeds you think you want, and just look around for a pet in a shelter that looks like it needs lots of love.
Moderator
Augury
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States758 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 18:18:30
August 18 2010 18:16 GMT
#3
I have a lot of money saved up and enough disposable income, so I'm not worried about that aspect.

Does anyone in the Bay Area know of any good breeders or websites? They all look the same to me :/

I've also done a decent chunk of reading, but good articles for taking care of dogs, etc.. would be helpful.

Edit: I'm going to try to find the breed I want, but I'm not opposed to walking in to a shelter and looking around. If anyone knows a nice shelter, that would be useful information as well, thanks.
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 19:01:28
August 18 2010 18:52 GMT
#4
Whatever you do, don't get pedigree dogs. Those dogs are inbred and have many genetic problems. Dogs are so deformed now because of selective breeding that they don' t look like they should have about 40 years ago. They have many physical problems, it's disgusting really... When dogs walks onto the stage during dog shoes, a lot of them can barely walk or breathe correctly... watch Pedigree Dogs Exposed. Dogs are bred for looks now... not health and the Kennel Club refuses to change their policies. The "ideal" golden retriever and pugs are so deformed that they cannot walk straight and bugs can barely breathe because of the flaps on their face. And this is aside from all of the genetic diseases. 1 in 20 ridgebacks is born without a ridge,yet they are perfectly healthy. Still, owners kill that puppy because they believe it's a mutation, when actually the RIDGE is the mutation. So they kill a perfectly healthy puppy because "it's not a ridgeback without a ridge" We fucking named them and now we hold the dogs up to that? Disgusting

just my 2 cents
always tired -_-
Badjas
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Netherlands2038 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 19:11:27
August 18 2010 19:09 GMT
#5
I disagree with AppleTart on the pedigree dogs. I don't know the details for some situations, but it does vary greatly by breed. For poodles, for example, dogs are checked in shows on their coat, build, walking and running movement and teeth among other things. They get tested on PRA and patella luxation which are important for those who want to breed. Other issues like heart conditions or with other internal organs are not prominently checked for, however if you have a pedigree (papers) then you can make contact with breeders of parent dogs. Those tests and show checks are different by breed and are generally defined by the respective breed's kennel club. As an example, the finnish kennel club (kennelliitto) has a website where you can access the pedigree of every dog registered, with which you can determine the amount of inbreeding (which really isn't that high in many cases, but again that might vary greatly with breed).

Worse options are to take a dog from a puppy mill / pet store, where you have no guarantee on checks being done.

Also, I have no idea if there's a big difference in mentality between the FCI (international kennel club) and the american kennel club.

Edit: Visit a dog show or two! And when you know what breed you want, if you are lucky there might be a specialty show for that breed.
I <3 the internet, I <3 you
NrG.NeverExpo
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2114 Posts
August 18 2010 19:10 GMT
#6
Vet bills can be ridiculous, i`ve encountered a few over the last year with my dog. For example my dog hopped up on the table when i had some weed out, and decided to eat it. At first he got really fuckin dizzy, and kinda looked like a bobble head. Then he started puking so we thought we`d take him to emergency. Just to walk in the door after hours was like $250. Then the procedures afterwards can double or triple that number. Lucky for us they were understanding, they gave him some medicine to help his stomach, some activated charcoal to soak up any toxins the marijuana left over, and IV`d a bunch of water into him all for about $40 extra. It was a really good price, but we were in and out of the vet that night until like 6:30 am.

My advice to you is be prepared! Get a hold of an emergency med kit, in case they swallow something u want out, u can make them throw it up etc. Don`t let this kinda thing stop you from getting a dog because its an amazing partner to have, but the more prepared you are, the easy a situation is if something does go wrong.
TwitteR: @NeverExpo follow me, i'll follow back :)
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 19:28:24
August 18 2010 19:17 GMT
#7
On August 19 2010 04:09 Badjas wrote:
I disagree with AppleTart on the pedigree dogs. I don't know the details for some situations, but it does vary greatly by breed. For poodles, for example, dogs are checked in shows on their coat, build, walking and running movement and teeth among other things. They get tested on PRA and patella luxation which are important for those who want to breed. Other issues like heart conditions or with other internal organs are not prominently checked for, however if you have a pedigree (papers) then you can make contact with breeders of parent dogs. Those tests and show checks are different by breed and are generally defined by the respective breed's kennel club. As an example, the finnish kennel club (kennelliitto) has a website where you can access the pedigree of every dog registered, with which you can determine the amount of inbreeding (which really isn't that high in many cases, but again that might vary greatly with breed).

Worse options are to take a dog from a puppy mill / pet store, where you have no guarantee on checks being done.

Also, I have no idea if there's a big difference in mentality between the FCI (international kennel club) and the american kennel club.

Edit: Visit a dog show or two! And when you know what breed you want, if you are lucky there might be a specialty show for that breed.


Finnish Kennel Club is a lot better than the British/American one, the Finnish Kennel Club is a lot more stringent on health. However, dog breeding for dog shows is depleting the gene pool. All of the pedigree bulldogs today now have the genes of only 50 dogs... do you realize how much inbreeding that is? Dogs like people, when inbred cause a lot of problems. the Finnish kennel club at least is against inbreeding of sister brother or mother to son, but the American one has no such rules. Regardless, dogs are bred for looks because of the Breed standard (this book some random guys wrote up to decide what the "ideal" dog is. Look at the picture of a healthy golden retriever and a pedigree one, they look NOTHING alike.

A German shepherd for the police is the working, healthy dog. Smart and active and strong.

A pedigree German shepherd is deformed and although it looks like the breed standard, it is very unhealthy. Go to Google images and look up "pedigree German shepherd" and then look up like police German shepherd.

Pedigree: http://www.vonweissblau.com/images/target_2.jpg
Natural: http://www.islandcrisis.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/GermanShepherd.jpg

Notice how the natural one has a back that is straight and not slanted and legs that are parallel. notice in the pedigree the back slants down... that is not natural and those dogs cant run and play very well.
always tired -_-
Augury
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States758 Posts
August 18 2010 19:30 GMT
#8
How do I avoid getting an inbred dog? Do you have any suggestions for breeders? Do you know anything specific about the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog breed? Is that a bad breed for being inbred?

Thanks for the advice though.
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 19:47:45
August 18 2010 19:42 GMT
#9
Well, usually getting a pedigree dog, there will be some levels of inbreeding. However, going to a shelter would be a good deal. Try to find one in a shelter if possible, they need lots of love. You could look up local shelters and ask if that breed is in store, you can visit them too, maybe you will find another dog. They really need the love you can provide.

You can ask the seller of the dog as well about the history and inbreeding to be sure! Goodluck!
I am only very against inbreeding because my friend had a pedigree dog that was inbred many times. She had to get put down because she had so many seizures it was painful for her to live. Many places avoid inbreeding and are against it, they usually will say that on their website. So if you can't find it in a shelter, just make sure the place you are getting it from is inbred free and that is fine too!

I hope you find a healthy dog!

edit: I'm not too sure about that breed hmmm.... but I'm sure you can get more information when you start contacting breeders.
always tired -_-
Badjas
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Netherlands2038 Posts
August 18 2010 19:56 GMT
#10
Thanks for the feedback there AppleTart. Indeed I can't say much for the ways of the american dog breeding ways. I'd like to point out that for poodles, in the shows I've been to in the netherlands and finland, they test carefully on the dog's stance, legs and walk. Poodles are hunting dogs, which might lead to this. As you mention, the american kennel club(s) weigh way too heavy on the looks, then I agree that would be a disaster.

The example picture you gave shows the owner keeping the dog in 'show position' it seems (I don't know anything about German shepherds in this regard) and it looks quirky to me but perhaps it is intentional. Poodles are positioned quite neutral (but 'stretched'/spread enough for good evaluation).

For the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog... hrmm.. google fu to the rescue.
American Kennel Club page
It is only an official standard with breed standards since 2003, which is very recent, so it doesn't do much with regards to show checks being done. Which might help with breeders not going for the best show/visual material but I don't know for how long they would have been running in shows. If you can visit a dog show with this breed attending, you should pay attention to the way the judge evaluates the dogs. Perhaps dog owners are happy to show you their notes from the judge, which should contain strong and weak points of the dog, which could help you orient.
I <3 the internet, I <3 you
AppleTart
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 20:04:46
August 18 2010 20:02 GMT
#11
On August 19 2010 04:56 Badjas wrote:
Thanks for the feedback there AppleTart. Indeed I can't say much for the ways of the american dog breeding ways. I'd like to point out that for poodles, in the shows I've been to in the netherlands and finland, they test carefully on the dog's stance, legs and walk. Poodles are hunting dogs, which might lead to this. As you mention, the american kennel club(s) weigh way too heavy on the looks, then I agree that would be a disaster.

The example picture you gave shows the owner keeping the dog in 'show position' it seems (I don't know anything about German shepherds in this regard) and it looks quirky to me but perhaps it is intentional. Poodles are positioned quite neutral (but 'stretched'/spread enough for good evaluation).

For the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog... hrmm.. google fu to the rescue.
American Kennel Club page
It is only an official standard with breed standards since 2003, which is very recent, so it doesn't do much with regards to show checks being done. Which might help with breeders not going for the best show/visual material but I don't know for how long they would have been running in shows. If you can visit a dog show with this breed attending, you should pay attention to the way the judge evaluates the dogs. Perhaps dog owners are happy to show you their notes from the judge, which should contain strong and weak points of the dog, which could help you orient.


Yeah, you have a good point, since the breed standard is only 7 years old, you should be okay since the gene pool is still rich for those breeds. But you can't be too safe.

And yes, even though that German shepherd is in show position, you still tell that the back is slanted. The "ideal" German shepherd by the breed standard has that majestic boastful look of the chest, which is pronounced the if tail end is slanted down. However, like people, dogs should have a straight frame. I know there is one breed of dog with a curled tail and they state that the more curved the tail, the better. Unfortunately... the curved tail results because of scoliosis for the spine which pulls the tail into a curve..

The Finnish seem to be very good about their dogs, the poodles at least, I'm glad they check for physical strength as well. It's sad that here in America/Britain judges like looks more than function... also it's hard for them to evaluate genetic problems. There was a rule that was almost passed that forbode any dog with a genetic problem to compete, but that was overturned T_T.
always tired -_-
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32049 Posts
August 18 2010 20:04 GMT
#12
On August 19 2010 04:10 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
Vet bills can be ridiculous, i`ve encountered a few over the last year with my dog. For example my dog hopped up on the table when i had some weed out, and decided to eat it. At first he got really fuckin dizzy, and kinda looked like a bobble head. Then he started puking so we thought we`d take him to emergency. Just to walk in the door after hours was like $250. Then the procedures afterwards can double or triple that number. Lucky for us they were understanding, they gave him some medicine to help his stomach, some activated charcoal to soak up any toxins the marijuana left over, and IV`d a bunch of water into him all for about $40 extra. It was a really good price, but we were in and out of the vet that night until like 6:30 am.

My advice to you is be prepared! Get a hold of an emergency med kit, in case they swallow something u want out, u can make them throw it up etc. Don`t let this kinda thing stop you from getting a dog because its an amazing partner to have, but the more prepared you are, the easy a situation is if something does go wrong.

mary jane is completely benign if it's not heated dude. It was probably puking because of the texture or something, not because he was ill.

but yeah, shit gets pricey. For the love of god, read about your breed first. Don't get a dalmation or some kind of energetic dog if you're gonna stuff it in an apartment and never walk it. And don't ever go to a pet store or something for a dog. Reputable breeder or a shelter 100%.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
Augury
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States758 Posts
August 18 2010 22:40 GMT
#13
Thanks for all of the help guys, going to call around some shelters and then go take a look at some. If I don't find a match, I'll start looking for reputable breeders.
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