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I'm still plugging away at 3 hatch muta ZvT on Fighting Spirit and I feel as though I've improved dramatically. Artosis' advice to just mass standard games of a matchup could not be more true. I've played 32 of them over the last 15 days against the same practice partner, and I've gone from lucking a win about once every 8 games to having a fighting chance in every one of them... though that might have something to do with him playing SC2 because playing SC2 wrecks your BW skill : 3
My play feels way more smooth because I don't have to think about the build as much any more. My APM has gone up a bit too despite my tiny tiny hands: first 4 games = 123, 121, 114, 123, last 4 games = 137, 137, 131, 133. I've gotten a lot better at noticing enemies on the minimap (and stopping drops) too, which was a personal goal so that feels awesome. I didn't end up switching macro setups and I'm still not very good at using the 9 and 0 keys but I've gotten better at 8.
I still can't micro very well, but that's not a huge problem except for one specific thing - if my opponent scouts me first and decides to use his SCV to block my nat I cannot deal with it. I know what I'm supposed to do is control group the hatch drones with an overlord and spam h and bh but I don't think I'm good enough at micro to do that. Does anyone have any tips for learning how to stop your nat from being blocked? It's really frustrating to autolose 1/3 of my games 
Recently what I've been doing is to immediately make my pool while using both the drones I send out (nat hat and scout) to attack the SCV until I can place the hatch, but that delays my nat forevvvvvvvver and is terrible. I'll probably have to learn more things about this if I ever want to play 2 players maps as well as I won't know how to deal with ebays blocking my nat either.
The weakest parts of my game right now are my poor unit control (not even gonna try to fix that, I can't control units for shit), my army composition, remembering to expand past the midgame, and keeping the vessel count down.
I've gotten pretty good at spending my money but I tend to get locked into one thing that I spam eg 5sz6sz7sz8sz, and the result is that at some point I end up losing because I stopped making lurkers or scourge or defilers.
When the game goes long I lose because I run out of money because I forget to take a 4th or a 5th once I've secured 3 gas and because the terran's vessel count gets ridiculous and I don't make enough scourge and am really bad at getting off plagues and even if I do both of those things there's still the matter of actually killing the vessels. I should incorporate the muta vs plagued vessels idea in to my game I guess?
I feel like when I ladder again I ought to be able to hit C- easy, but I'm gonna keep hammering away until I get the glaring issues I've mentioned fixed. I've never been this into BW before and I love it 
Though I'm scared that when I got back to school I'm going to spend all my time playing...
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if you're going 3 hat, you COULD just build your 2nd hat offcenter and then make your 3rd hat in the proper place (back during destination days a lot of pros did this to counter ebay at nat which happened almost every other game at one point lol). That's got to be a relatively fast SCV scout though to be able to block your nat, isn't it? the only time that ever happens to me is if they 8rax and they're going for a bunker rush (at least on 4player maps).
you should be able to kill the SCV with your 11th and 12th drones before you reach 500 minerals if you control right though. maybe you just need more practice at it? lol
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Agree with everything said above.
I rarely get nat-blocked, and if I do, I just 12 pool or offplace my hatch.
I also have this mass same units problem =/, can't really fix it other than to stop doing it lol. I try to think before I make units now instead of going "NO UNITS? -> MAKE ZERGLINGS", "NO DEFILERS? -> 5SD6SD7SD -> WHY DO I HAVE SO MANY DEFILERS YET NO ULTRAS?".
Plague+mutas work fine, though usually I make 2-3 so they don't get instantly sniped by mnm and you can actually fly over them (for a second or two).
I've also gotten to the point where I'm sick of terrans lifting command centers so I make a ctrl group of hydras, which are also really good (they're used by pros alot, but pros have the apm to protect them with swarm, which I doubt D+/C- can do, I certainly can't) against SVs, so maybe try that.
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I find that when you play the same player over and over again standard mode, you get used to their timings and when they push out so you tend to play better against them. But on another note, it's good to see people still trying to improve in BW :D. I still have some goals I'd like accomplished as well. I'm a C zerg, these are just my take on some of the questions you had, hope it helps.
Anyways, for the natural block by an scv, it's pretty rare cause most Terrans late scout even on 2 player maps, but can be annoying when it happens. An alternative solution since you're going for a 3 hatch build is to just plot down the 12 hatch at a slightly off location, and then put the 13 hatch at the natural. this way you won't lose as many larvas as going a fast pool when you're not really planning to make that many lings early. Just be sure not to block your natural hatch haha.
I always research plague after consume is finished. It's an amazing spell to have against bio/vessel balls. Usually you just have to be aware of the vessel's movement. They're going to come in to irradiate your defilers, so you'll definitely get the chance to plague them. Once you get a plague off, you can make a muta to take care of them at a later engagement.
As for unit control, the more games you play out to mid/late game, the more it'll improve. With the exception of muta micro, zvt micro is mainly the large army control to flank and the lurkers. Just make sure you burrow the lurkers in good positions to do as much damage as possible with the lings to support and block escapes. Late game focus on the defiler play, it's essential for modern zvt.
On taking a fourth, you would usually have two lurkers at your third's ramp, so when you have map control, ie after you crush a tank vessel mnm push with your army, feel free to bring those down the ramp and take the expo. If you didn't get map control and you're defending with defilers, make a defiler and some lings at the third, and use that defiler + lurker to set up for a fourth. You really want four gas before you start going heavy ultras for your army generally,
If you have trouble remembering to make more lurkers/defilers. Basically I make about 1-2 defiler each round of production unless I have 2-3 that just aren't getting irradiated. For lurkers, try glancing at your gas and make a mental note, how many lurkers can I make? It'll help to remind you that you have the capacity to make a few more.
Good luck in your games.
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Are you trying to win games on three gas? God, that sounds so difficult and dangerous; whenever you think you could probably hold it take your fourth, it's never let me down before.
Edit: Also if the scv gets to my nat before my expanding drone I just continue to send it as if I were scouting and use the second ol to see when he leaves my nat, if he ebays me I place it off center and get it with my 3rd, I like to think it works about even
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For example, on python, I 9scout after checking the corner with my SCV. Then I have a 50% chance of finding Z on the first try. I usually get there just as they're about to try making the hatch. If they stop trying to place it, I immediately scout their main to verify the pool, and that they're not doing anything weird.
As a Terran, I find that a zerg's safest choice is to make a pool if they can't get down their hat immediately. You then have the option of making as many or as few lings as you want. Sometimes I like to play really greedy, so i block the hat, then I rax 15cc into autolose vs lings with no bunker.
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On a 4 player map like FS, terran has to send his scout really early and scout you first to be able to block your natural. It really shouldn't happen very often. When you see it just go 12 pool and build one more drone, you shouldn't be that far behind. Just make sure you're using all your larvas.
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On August 03 2010 12:03 Ideas wrote:
if you're going 3 hat, you COULD just build your 2nd hat offcenter and then make your 3rd hat in the proper place (back during destination days a lot of pros did this to counter ebay at nat which happened almost every other game at one point lol). That's got to be a relatively fast SCV scout though to be able to block your nat, isn't it? the only time that ever happens to me is if they 8rax and they're going for a bunker rush (at least on 4player maps).
you should be able to kill the SCV with your 11th and 12th drones before you reach 500 minerals if you control right though. maybe you just need more practice at it? lol
I can't even begin to explain how bad my control is - there's a reason I'm learning a macro playstyle : 3
I hadn't thought of just placing it offcenter - that is a much better solution! It'll mean I won't get to hide my spire but whatever; obv I should just get good enough to roll them anyway.
As for the scout timing the terran is scouting on 9; I guess that's early but when it autowins 1/3 of the time...
I should be much better off with your suggestion, though - thanks ^^
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On August 03 2010 12:18 King K. Rool wrote:
Agree with everything said above.
I rarely get nat-blocked, and if I do, I just 12 pool or offplace my hatch.
I also have this mass same units problem =/, can't really fix it other than to stop doing it lol. I try to think before I make units now instead of going "NO UNITS? -> MAKE ZERGLINGS", "NO DEFILERS? -> 5SD6SD7SD -> WHY DO I HAVE SO MANY DEFILERS YET NO ULTRAS?".
Plague+mutas work fine, though usually I make 2-3 so they don't get instantly sniped by mnm and you can actually fly over them (for a second or two).
I've also gotten to the point where I'm sick of terrans lifting command centers so I make a ctrl group of hydras, which are also really good (they're used by pros alot, but pros have the apm to protect them with swarm, which I doubt D+/C- can do, I certainly can't) against SVs, so maybe try that.
I absolutely love transitioning to hydra instead of (or if I'm far enough ahead, in addition to) ultras in the lategame, especially if terran starts to make a lot of tanks. Hydras rule!
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On August 03 2010 12:19 n.DieJokes wrote:
Are you trying to win games on three gas? God, that sounds so difficult and dangerous; whenever you think you could probably hold it take your fourth, it's never let me down before
It's not a conscious decision to stop expanding - it's just not programmed into my head as something I need to do. Often I'll take a 4th and have it die and then not expand again. Taking a 4th isn't very hard, especially if you took another main as your 3rd on FS, it's just a matter of remembering I need to do it.
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Is there some proper etiquette for responding to people in your blog posts? I feel weird making like 4 posts in a row : S
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With 2 hatch I'd definitely just throw down pool + gas and get faster mutas if Terran decides to fuck with my hatch.
With 3 hatch, I agree you should put the second hatchery in your main and use the third as your nat. (That's also a nifty way to block bunker rushes, by the way.)
On August 03 2010 12:27 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 12:18 King K. Rool wrote:
Agree with everything said above.
I rarely get nat-blocked, and if I do, I just 12 pool or offplace my hatch.
I also have this mass same units problem =/, can't really fix it other than to stop doing it lol. I try to think before I make units now instead of going "NO UNITS? -> MAKE ZERGLINGS", "NO DEFILERS? -> 5SD6SD7SD -> WHY DO I HAVE SO MANY DEFILERS YET NO ULTRAS?".
Plague+mutas work fine, though usually I make 2-3 so they don't get instantly sniped by mnm and you can actually fly over them (for a second or two).
I've also gotten to the point where I'm sick of terrans lifting command centers so I make a ctrl group of hydras, which are also really good (they're used by pros alot, but pros have the apm to protect them with swarm, which I doubt D+/C- can do, I certainly can't) against SVs, so maybe try that. I absolutely love transitioning to hydra instead of (or if I'm far enough ahead, in addition to) ultras in the lategame, especially if terran starts to make a lot of tanks. Hydras rule!
Hydra/guardian is my favorite Zerg unit combination. (With some ling/defiler and possibly lurker mixed in, of course.) Air-to-ground is a great solution to tanks. (Provided you keep his vessel count down, but if he has vessels AND lots of tanks, you're doing it wrong.)
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Yah, even though majority of times my hydras fail, I love it when a well placed plague and hydras mow down mnm like no other.
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On August 03 2010 12:50 King K. Rool wrote:
Yah, even though majority of times my hydras fail, I love it when a well placed plague and hydras mow down mnm like no other.
Oh man one time I plagued his entire vessel cloud and then they all died to hydras in a span of about 5 seconds. So many vessel death sounds... it was probably the closest I've ever been to jizzing my pants lol
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On August 03 2010 12:43 Pokebunny wrote:
Pro tip for responding to multiple posts:
Click quote with your mouse wheel (or right click and select) to open in a new tab.
Respond to that quote.
Quote another post in a new tab, and copy paste the quote to your other reply. Alternatively, just edit the second quotes in.
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wow never thought of that...
thanks a lot its time to test.
On August 03 2010 12:57 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 12:50 King K. Rool wrote:
Yah, even though majority of times my hydras fail, I love it when a well placed plague and hydras mow down mnm like no other. Oh man one time I plagued his entire vessel cloud and then they all died to hydras in a span of about 5 seconds. So many vessel death sounds... it was probably the closest I've ever been to jizzing my pants lol
WOW THIS WORKS
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YAY a blog about broodwar!
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Wait what? You're getting your natural blocked in ZvT on Fighting Spirit?
Stuff like this happens in PvZ because Protoss always scouts after pylon. Terrans usually don't scout right after supply depot. Maybe as their barracks is going down. A 12 hatch will probably start before the SCV gets there...
If an scv is there all alone, just attack it with both your hatchery building drone and your scouting drone. When it backs off, pull one drone away to build the hatch, while the other one keeps on attacking the scv. When the hatch has started building, you can go scout with the other one.
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Yeah, I totally know what you mean by how you would just cycle through the hatches and go sz sz sz sz sz sz and sometimes lose because you forgot to replenish your lurker numbers and make some defilers.
My laptop doesn't have sound at all right now so I've been playing the past few months without any sounds. I think it's helped me be more aware of the minimap since I'm pretty much forced to focus entirely on visual cues to tell me what's going on since I don't get any of the "YOUR HIVE IS UNDER ATTACK SHIT" alarms. I still fucking suck though, and it is a fact that I have quietly accepted. I've been mixing around with builds recently unlike you, I guess. I used to only do 3hatch mutas every single game so I guess it feels nicer to switch things around at times. I've been experimenting with opening 9pool the past few days after watching some old Savior games and it has been working to good effect sometimes.
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EPT
