I understand that many of you fear that SC2 will lead to Brood War's death. I cannot say whether or not this is the case, but if it is, then I agree that it is very sad indeed. However, I truly believe that SC2 has brought the community together far more than it has torn it apart. For one, the Brood War veterans share a bond of hardship and respect. We have stuck with a decade old game through thick and thin. We've watched the growth of legends, and we've seen history unfold before our very eyes. If nothing else, SC2 only solidifies our memories - of the endless hours grinding on iCCup or PGTour, of the countless nights spent watching crazy foreign commentators jabber restlessly about our favorite players and teams, just to bear witness to those few life changing moments where something truly amazing happens.
Second, people from all sorts of different gaming backgrounds have gathered here at TL to learn more about our beloved game. Sure, some of them may have brought snobby and disdainful attitudes. But I can honestly say that a great majority have come to learn, and to try to fully appreciate the game we know and love. I don't think any one of them would dare argue that Boxer or Nada or Flash or Jaedong isn't great. People come to Teamliquid because they are curious about Starcraft, and TL is the best goddamn place to learn about it. And given the immense increase in activity on these forums, I can say with confidence that now, there are a hell of a lot more people who love Starcraft just as much as we do, who might not have found out about it otherwise.
Third, yes Teamliquid was a close, tight-knit community that's turning "mainstream." But just look at the Starcraft 2 Tournaments section. Already, there have been multiple tournaments that have boasted well over $1000 prize pools, featuring 64 or even 128 participants. And all in the span of a mere 5 months. This already far eclipses anything that's happened for Brood War, and the actual game still hasn't been released. With SC2, we get a real chance at something we've always been hoping for: to turn Starcraft into a legitimate international eSport. In beta's short lifespan, we've created a community that's not just going to sit on the sidelines reporting results from a country halfway across the world. Thanks to people like Day[9], other popular commentators, the TL mods, and most importantly, the community, we're going to be a part of something truly phenomenal. I, for one, am really looking forward to the future.
Saracen, we need to get together on release day and practice ZvP. Plexa has this sick awesome blink stalker timing attack(sentries/zealots added dependig on Z's army composition) that I have no idea once how to counter D: Once the game is released I demand we spend quality time together to devise plans on how to defeat this new threat.
The most annoying thing about the SC2/BW conflict is even if the BW people are right and SC2 is garbage that's not going to change anything. SC2 is still going to become the main game by virtue of shininess; just look at Brawl or SF4. Yes all the arguments that "you can't compare 10 years of BW to a game that's not even released yet" and "we don't even have all the expansion packs" are valid, but the people making them seem to forget that those are just reasons why we can't tell if SC2 is on the same level as BW as an esport, and not reasons why SC2 actually is on the same level as BW.
What do I expect Starcraft 2 to bring that Brood War did for so many of us...
The joy of playing it, and as well of watching it as entertainment. The kind of joy that gives you the little girl giggle when you watch it. Such as the video below...
On July 22 2010 15:13 Monokeros wrote: Saracen, we need to get together on release day and practice ZvP. Plexa has this sick awesome blink stalker timing attack(sentries/zealots added dependig on Z's army composition) that I have no idea once how to counter D: Once the game is released I demand we spend quality time together to devise plans on how to defeat this new threat.
Also awesome article
Did he improve it any in the last two days of the Beta? Because it got countered pretty handily before that
On July 22 2010 15:14 Crunchums wrote: The most annoying thing about the SC2/BW conflict is even if the BW people are right and SC2 is garbage that's not going to change anything. SC2 is still going to become the main game by virtue of shininess; just look at Brawl or SF4. Yes all the arguments that "you can't compare 10 years of BW to a game that's not even released yet" and "we don't even have all the expansion packs" are valid, but the people making them seem to forget that those are just reasons why we can't tell if SC2 is on the same level as BW as an esport, and not reasons why SC2 actually is on the same level as BW.
I agree. To all of the people who use those arguments, I think it's a really lazy attitude to take. Like, you can sit back and hope that maybe SC2 will be something great. And if not, then whatever, back to WoW or DotA. But then there are people who NEED SC2 to be great, who actively push to make it better, and who do amazing things for the community. We don't know if SC2 is going to be as perfect as BW, which is exactly what these people are saying. "Oh, maybe it will be as awesome as BW in 10 years, and maybe it won't." But in the end, it's the community that holds the game together and keeps it alive through the decades. An active community, not a passive one.
I took 2 sides at once I hide tiny "BW> SCII" stuff in my advice which is used to make it BW=SCII. I personally just want people to make them equal in awesomeness but not have one be considered better than the other.
this is a very nice post...as usual Saracen. i seriously cannot wait to see what is to happen in the future! i feel like things are looking pretty good. as for contributing...I am challenging to beat in sc2 YEAH -_- i played u once but i lost so bad =P
I love Brood War. I really do. It's a versatile and well-polished game that's taken 12 years to get to an incredible level of balance. At first I thought that SC2 could never ever reach that level with all of the AI fly-by-wire stuff it does for you like auto-mining and damage efficiency (think siege tanks). But watching TLO play in several of the beta tournaments has given me hope for creative and exciting play in the future. There is hope!
Brood war will always be in my heart, that shit is hard man! SC 2 is the newest ho in our little website and I gotta admit she got looks, has quality, and kinda easy to know about but hard to master when you make her your wife
Even before SC2, the Team Liquid SC:BW community gave me the solid RTS understanding I needed to reach the top 75 in a totally different game: Red Alert 3. And now I'm writing about SC2 on my offsite blog, something which might end up changing my entire life (who knows).
I don't know about you, but I played Starcraft because it was fun. Now Starcraft 2 is more fun. All this 'hardship" and "tight knit community" was just a byproduct of that.
I feel like I'm more part of the SC2 community than I ever was of the BW community.
On July 22 2010 15:14 Crunchums wrote: The most annoying thing about the SC2/BW conflict is even if the BW people are right and SC2 is garbage that's not going to change anything. SC2 is still going to become the main game by virtue of shininess; just look at Brawl or SF4.
Whenever I see those kinds of conflicts I find it ironic. It's almost as if a large portion of gamers never wanted SC2 to release in the first place.
Personally, I can't wait to continue that storyline that captivated me back in 2000!
Yeah, it's pretty cool to walk by campus and see that everyone who was playing dota is now turning to starcraft 2, or checking out the DOW, AOE forums and seeing starcraft 2 forums piling up. Not only that, people on facebook are talking about starcraft as well. Already you feel like you don't have to be ashamed that you're playing an old game anymore because everyone knows about it.
But I still think starcraft is a long way from becoming a true E-sport. I think that for this to happen, it would be necessary for CSL to have a bigger impact. People who play sports like soccer get to meet their peers and practice as a team. Same should go for starcraft, because after all, we aren't only interested in watching the game. We need to be able to play it and socialize as well, form clans and really get to know the people in them. Then starcraft will be a true esport for the western hemisphere. It has the potential.
I have no doubt starcraft is a good mental workout, perhaps people will see the value of the game in being such a workout and in the future exercising one's mind will be as valuable as exercising one's physique. Then maybe one day we'll see gaming become a part of everyday life for the average american.
I have a lot of fun playing SC2 and I think as an esport it has incredible potential. Will it ever be as good as BW? No, and that makes me sad because BW deserves the type of recognition SC2 is getting from the foreign community. A part of me inside wants SC2 to fail in Korea and SC to live it.
The thing I hate most about SC2 is not something in the game but with the people. The new people that come over and bring the trash from their previous communities and stink up places like the SC2 forum, or Day9's stream. You would be embarrassed for posting content of that level in a pre-SC2 TL, but in the new age, only the mods care, and they can only do so much to limit the level of stupidity (tl has the best moderation of any game forum imo). The streams are the worst place where players that bring an incredible amount of entertainment and pour a ton of time into being the best they can are ridiculed and lambasted with insults. I sometimes see derogatory insults towards Korean and Chinese players simply because they are considered the class of RTS gaming and the ones who take esports to the highest levels.
I would say lastly I am disappointed in the complete ignorance of BW by most of the newer SC2 users. I often get angry at the stupid polls made by asking what game is better, and seeing that SC2 has a gigantic lead is almost infuriating. Its almost as if BW never existed to these people. Whenever discussions of mechanics pops up these people will be quick to respond with "wtf sc2 should not have 12year old broken mechanics and horrible ui that burns my eyes." So what if the goon AI was horrible? The best players get over it and what we see is sometimes breathtaking.
Overall I am just disappointed in the community SC2 has spawned and not so much about the game. SC2 does not feel like a "family" to me, much unlike BW.
you give alot of good points in your blog, but what you need to remember is that alot of the Brood War community aren't really "gamers" in the generic sense. Brood War is the only game we've ever really appreciated; we really don't care about "global acceptance of e-sports" or even the gaming community in general. We don't follow E3 and we're not modern warfare whores who just buy the next in the series. Outside of SCBW, we have no connection to video games other than a broken down 10 year old Nintendo 64. SC1 is the only game we've ever really cared about, and ICCUP grows emptier by the day. That's what really makes us sad.
you give alot of good points in your blog, but what you need to remember is that alot of the Brood War community aren't really "gamers" in the generic sense. Brood War is the only game we've ever really appreciated; we really don't care about "global acceptance of e-sports" or even the gaming community in general. We don't follow E3 and we're not modern warfare whores who just buy the next in the series. Outside of SCBW, we have no connection to video games other than a broken down 10 year old Nintendo 64. SC1 is the only game we've ever really cared about, and ICCUP grows emptier by the day. That's what really makes us sad.
Then brood war gamers need to learn to play for fun :D Really games can be pretty crappy and still be fun as long as you are learning about them and experimenting. New games give people a great opportunity to learn new things and have lots of fun doing that.
On July 23 2010 03:09 Chill wrote: I don't know about you, but I played Starcraft because it was fun. Now Starcraft 2 is more fun. All this 'hardship" and "tight knit community" was just a byproduct of that.
I feel like I'm more part of the SC2 community than I ever was of the BW community.
Its funny hearing you say that when i recall you not looking forward to sc2. Im glad sc2 turned into a good sequel unlike other games like Brawl and shit
sc2 is okay, and maybe it will become great in some years. the sad thing for me is, that bw is still kinda new to me (playing since 2008), so I don't want to switch games right now. (my pc sucks anyway...) dammit.
EPT
