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Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing.
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On July 05 2010 20:34 eLiE wrote:lol, you're looking at an egomaniac right here. I've got the whole shabang going on right now, except my parents wouldn't give me my education fund unless I took nursing first, which in all honesty is probably making my future harder. I feel like the med schools will think of nursing as an easier course and respect it less. But I can probably squeeze some easier marks out of it, and I'm also volunteering every summer at the hospital, and I'm learning stuff by myself (right now, clinical hypnosis, as I want to be a psychiatrist). And being a lifeguard can't hurt either (some some first aid rescues up in there). the MCAT is going to be a problem though, since nursing has absolutely no science in it, so I'm gonna have to teach myself that stuff. On top of having good marks, it's also really important to be well rounded (is what I hear, so I'm not as worried as I could be). OP, good luck with your stuff, make sure you update us, cause this is important info. EDIT: I think it's important to note that you need the right mindset in order to become a doctor. In the words of mighty yoda, there is no try, only do or do not (couldn't pass on a chance to quote yoda  ).
Also to reply to this: If you're applying to medical school, you've had all the courses you need for the MCAT. Having a Biochemistry degree makes half of the biological sciences section and half of the physical sciences section a joke, but it's not like you didn't get that information in GChem/Biology anyway. You're going to be studying for the MCAT anyway, and having more than the pre-reqs can often make you over-think problems. It's especially true of the PS section if you've had PChem.
Honestly if I was younger, I would have done Nursing or EMS as a route into medicine. The main reason I chose Biochem was because it was the only degree I could do along with all the pre-reqs in three years.
ADCOMs won't look down on nursing at all; they understand that nursing is a lot more rigorous than gchem/ochem/bio. It'll also give you an advantage because they won't have any doubts that you know exactly what you're getting into. When it comes to Mr. Caucasian 22 y/o biology major, he has to have a bunch of extra ECs that prove he really wants this.
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On July 06 2010 00:53 Biochemist wrote:
Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing.
So just to be clear, you're advocating that someone get a 4 year nursing degree, and then take 2 years of science requirements to take the MCAT and then apply to medical school? Constructing your argument the way you did is misleading, because reason #2 for reasons NOT to do nursing is far more important for most people than all your other reasons combined.
In response to some of your points...
Hands on experience: IMO, dubious. Sure, you'll learn how to put in Foleys and draw blood and put in IVs. If your future specialty requires that you be able to do this on a regular basis, you will obviously receive this training during residency and beyond. There are plenty of specialties that will never require such skills.
"Nursing will make you a better student": As will going to pharmacy school, PA school, getting advanced degrees in pharmacology, physiology, etc. All these take time.
The "asshat" issue: Disagree pretty hard here too. Asshole nurses will be asshole doctors. Cool nurses will be cool doctors. Those prickish medical students will understand what goes around comes around, when they are prickish residents and the nurses are paging them at 3 am for a temp of 38.
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On July 06 2010 01:25 radar14 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 00:53 Biochemist wrote:
Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing. So just to be clear, you're advocating that someone get a 4 year nursing degree, and then take 2 years of science requirements to take the MCAT and then apply to medical school? Constructing your argument the way you did is misleading, because reason #2 for reasons NOT to do nursing is far more important for most people than all your other reasons combined. In response to some of your points... Hands on experience: IMO, dubious. Sure, you'll learn how to put in Foleys and draw blood and put in IVs. If your future specialty requires that you be able to do this on a regular basis, you will obviously receive this training during residency and beyond. There are plenty of specialties that will never require such skills. "Nursing will make you a better student": As will going to pharmacy school, PA school, getting advanced degrees in pharmacology, physiology, etc. All these take time. The "asshat" issue: Disagree pretty hard here too. Asshole nurses will be asshole doctors. Cool nurses will be cool doctors. Those prickish medical students will understand what goes around comes around, when they are prickish residents and the nurses are paging them at 3 am for a temp of 38.
Yeah, I agree. It's not like a good student can't do their pre-reqs DURING the 4 year nursing degree, if that's their plan all along. Also I repeating some positive reasons to do nursing or RT or something like that on the way to medical school in response to the guys on the last page saying nursing was a complete waste and 100% useless.
Also the positive reasons I gave were the reasons a few PCP physician friends of mine gave me to try to talk me out of doing a science major. As I said, I ultimately decided not to on account of the timeline alone.
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Ok, no reason to get sarcastic and snarky. That's why I asked with my first sentence what you were saying. You said yourself that it takes longer. Why would it take longer if you can finish all that in 4 years?
And I guess you have no comment on all my other points.
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It's a side effect of me not reading my post again in the context of yours before posting it.
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Good Luck!
I'm taking the MCAT on August 12th >.<
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IMO the best MCAT preparation would be to follow this guide at the Student Doctor Network:
Did anyone think the verbal section in AAMC3 was too easy? I got a 12 there after averaging an 8 in the beginning of the 101 passages book...
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On July 06 2010 01:49 iamke55 wrote:IMO the best MCAT preparation would be to follow this guide at the Student Doctor Network: Did anyone think the verbal section in AAMC3 was too easy? I got a 12 there after averaging an 8 in the beginning of the 101 passages book...
AAMC3 is widely considered much easier than either any of the other practice tests or the real MCAT. Supposedly 8/9/10 are newer/more difficult and better indicators of the real thing.
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On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD
Maybe your GPA isn't out of 4.0 because 3.98 as the median is a little absurd.
I'm taking the MCAT next summer >.<. Gl man, and remember, if you score high enough on the MCAT you can still get into an allopathic program. Have you considered attending the Caribbeans for medical school?
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/07/caribbean-medical-schools-a-good-option/
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/09/why-i-chose-podiatry-school/
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UT is amazingly competitive. I have some Canadian classmates that are at the top of the class and didn't get sniff at UT (or any other Canadian schools for that matter). A median GPA of 3.98 wouldn't surprise me at all.
Dear god, some of those articles on SDN are so bad.
Also, I think DO is better than Caribbean MD for the purpose of getting a residency.
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On July 06 2010 02:15 radar14 wrote:UT is amazingly competitive. I have some Canadian classmates that are at the top of the class and didn't get sniff at UT (or any other Canadian schools for that matter). A median GPA of 3.98 wouldn't surprise me at all. Dear god, some of those articles on SDN are so bad. Also, I think DO is better than Caribbean MD for the purpose of getting a residency.
100% agree. I live near a DO school that sends about 50% of its students to allopathic residencies. Although most of them do primary care, that largely reflects the type of students that choose DO for whatever reason. If you have good board scores, you can usually get into the type of residency you want regardless of which pair of letters you sport.
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Don't take aamc 8 that is the most realistic one imo. Wait to take that one last. Also the TPR are harder then necessary but will be good training Good Luck
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
if you really want to go to an allopathic school, consider postbaccalaureate classes. a lot of people who have low gpas go for this route and take an extra year or two of classes to bring their gpas up and become more competitive. a master's degree wouldn't hurt your medical aspirations, although a 3.1 gpa suggests that you might have trouble keeping up in med school classes even if you are able to get in.
in any case, good luck and i hope you do well.
doing nursing if you want a medical degree is a waste of time and you might as well just go for being a physician's assistant since it's only 2 or so more years of schooling and they make around 100k which is not bad at all.
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in response to people about my nursing program, it's been an ongoing argument between me and my parents, things we're said, I kicked down a door, etc... but it's free room and board so I'm stuck here for now. The only positives I can really see is that it will help in my med school interview, because I can say I truly learned about holistic patient care. TBH, I'm so sick of caring, there's all these theoretical models for caring, and it's not that hard, just don't be an asshole to your patients. A lot of the program feels like filler to me, common sense thrown into a theory so it looks professional. The program is definitely easier and more hands on than a life science program, but it's still a ton of work like any uni program. I don't recommend any serious med student take it. The reason I'm in it is insurance for when I don't make it into med school (according to my parents) so I can get a job easily. If you are going nursing, make sure you do really well on that MCAT so they know you have the smarts for the job.
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On July 06 2010 01:25 radar14 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 00:53 Biochemist wrote:
Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing. So just to be clear, you're advocating that someone get a 4 year nursing degree, and then take 2 years of science requirements to take the MCAT and then apply to medical school? Constructing your argument the way you did is misleading, because reason #2 for reasons NOT to do nursing is far more important for most people than all your other reasons combined. In response to some of your points... Hands on experience: IMO, dubious. Sure, you'll learn how to put in Foleys and draw blood and put in IVs. If your future specialty requires that you be able to do this on a regular basis, you will obviously receive this training during residency and beyond. There are plenty of specialties that will never require such skills. "Nursing will make you a better student": As will going to pharmacy school, PA school, getting advanced degrees in pharmacology, physiology, etc. All these take time. The "asshat" issue: Disagree pretty hard here too. Asshole nurses will be asshole doctors. Cool nurses will be cool doctors. Those prickish medical students will understand what goes around comes around, when they are prickish residents and the nurses are paging them at 3 am for a temp of 38.
People do grad school which can take up to 6 years if not longer before med school, at least nursing doesn't hinge on your experiments.
Asshole nurses aren't asshole doctors, I picked this up pretty quickly shadowing some of the people around my regional hospital. They might act like pricks (ever so subtly) towards the patients and fellow residents but definitely not to their nurses, it's the quickest way to hinder your career.
Also, people want to be doctors, there's this social standing that goes with it. You don't get the same response from people if you say you're a physicians assistant than if you said you are a doctor. Funnily enough, there isn't this negative stigma attached to it either like there would be if you were a lawyer or a businessman.
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Oh man good luck with that. What schools are you looking into currently?
I'm afraid of medical school so there is no way in hell I'm going down that path.
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Get micronesia to tutor you to get that physics score up!
You seem like an underachiever with your GPA. From what I know GPA is mostly a measure of effort. And for you to be scoring that high on the MCAT means you didn't try hard enough.
Oh well; lord knows i'll never change
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EPT
