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Okay, so... today I went to clean my Razer Lycosa keyboard. It gets dusty, and somehow there is a shit ton of hair in this beast... so I slowly lifted my K button, and my Enter buttons to clean it, and the goddamn plastic snapped around the enter key.
What the hell is the point of having a gaming keyboard, a keyboard that is meant to take pounding and pain, if you can't lift up an input key without breaking the damn thing? That is actually grade A stupidity.
Anyway, what are you all using for SC2 keyboards? This one was a laptop style keyboard, it had that laptop style of keys, which is okay.
![[image loading]](http://www.getright.com.au/v2006ver1/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/56dd4beff73a5ae24b820eca79c833be.jpg)
Previous to this I had a G15 which died out on me from overuse.
Are there any oldschool warriors out there using the good ol'e fashioned 10 dollar keyboard? I'm seriously considering it, I'm at the point now where I don't need the backlighting I've been typing for so goddamn long (19 years I've been in front of a damned keyboard.)
So tell me TL'ers, what's your recommended weapon of choice?
   
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The cheap ones are the best! Laptop keyboards are BS first of all. Second of all, us whities are a lot more anal about keyboards than the pros. Just get a good ol clacky keyed MFer and rock it like its hot.
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I dont really understand the need to buy a really expensive over-the-top gaming keyboard as opposed to mice.
Im totally fine with using a $15-25 standard keyboard. Something like this... Of course keyboards have a long lifetime but I feel they are more expendable than a mouse.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126013
edit: If you are willing get a mechanical keyboard.
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Shop garage sales. Don't pay more than a dollar.
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I have this one and is fairly decent and CHEAP.
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DT35
If you have money get a filco, they're sick.
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It doesn't matter what keyboard you buy as long as you feel the keys you press and you're comfortable with it.
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On June 15 2010 13:47 ella_guru wrote: The cheap ones are the best! Laptop keyboards are BS first of all. Second of all, us whities are a lot more anal about keyboards than the pros. Just get a good ol clacky keyed MFer and rock it like its hot.
Why do you think laptop keyboards are bad? I'm curious, as I have always played BW/SC2 on my actual laptop so I'm not used to regular keyboards.
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Never buy expensive keybords for hardcore gaming man The cheaper the better,I still use the Microsoft wired 500 keybord 5 years!!
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On June 15 2010 14:01 FortuneSyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 13:47 ella_guru wrote: The cheap ones are the best! Laptop keyboards are BS first of all. Second of all, us whities are a lot more anal about keyboards than the pros. Just get a good ol clacky keyed MFer and rock it like its hot. Why do you think laptop keyboards are bad? I'm curious, as I have always played BW/SC2 on my actual laptop so I'm not used to regular keyboards.
Flat keys are : ( (
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I have the ABS M1 and I'm pretty happy with it. If you can find one, I would totally recommend going for it. The only problems I have with it are the really bright LEDs for Capslock and stuff and the occasionally squeaky space bar. I'm really impressed by the pretty good build quality and the mechanical switches really make a difference when I'm typing.
I also have this Microsoft 600 series keyboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823109077
I like it as well since it's pretty cheap and it gives good response when I am typing (at least for a silent key keyboard). I think they have the similar laptop style keyboards that you have on the Lycosa (obviously of lower quality though.)
The Microsoft wired 500 is also a pretty solid keyboard and I wouldn't mind going for that. It's keys are not the laptop kind though.
I'm also under the impression that expensive 'gaming' keyboards are full of shit. If you have the money to spend on a gaming keyboard might as well get a decent mechanical switch keyboard that will last you a long time and feel better.
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The best keyboards you can buy are mechanical keyboards. And a solid one will never break. Anyone who says that a cheap keyboard is better has never used a mechanical keyboard. Razer doesn't make gaming keyboards. They make crap with lights.
I used to have a razer Turantula and always hated it. When it finally broke I did a ton of research. I knew nothing about quality keyboards. I decided to buy a filco tenkeyless with brown switches which can be purchased at http://www.elitekeyboards.com. They are a bit pricey, but these things are built like fucking tanks. No way they will break. Another option is the steelseries 7g. However, they only come with black switches which have a lot more resistance then the brown switches.
There may be some cheaper mechanical keyboards on newegg, but the filco and steelseries 7g are probably higher quality.
You can do some research yourself into keyboards at http://www.geekhack.org. Tons of mechanical keyboard reviews and other information that is actually pretty sweet.
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On June 15 2010 14:05 Bosu wrote:The best keyboards you can buy are mechanical keyboards. And a solid one will never break. Anyone who says that a cheap keyboard is better has never used a solid mechanical keyboard. Razer doesn't make gaming keyboards. They make crap with lights. I use a filco tenkeyless with brown switches which can be purchased at http://www.elitekeyboards.com. They are a bit pricey, but these things are built like fucking tanks. No way they will break. Another option is the steelseries 7g. However, they only come with brown switches which have a lot more resistance then the brown switches. There may be some cheaper mechanical keyboards on newegg, but the filco and steelseries 7g are probably higher quality. You can do some research yourself into keyboards at http://www.geekhack.org. Tons of mechanical keyboard reviews and other information that is actually pretty sweet.
Yup, I think you mean the 7G has black switches which are ok, but I personally prefer browns. I love my filco.
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On June 15 2010 14:02 ella_guru wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 14:01 FortuneSyn wrote:On June 15 2010 13:47 ella_guru wrote: The cheap ones are the best! Laptop keyboards are BS first of all. Second of all, us whities are a lot more anal about keyboards than the pros. Just get a good ol clacky keyed MFer and rock it like its hot. Why do you think laptop keyboards are bad? I'm curious, as I have always played BW/SC2 on my actual laptop so I'm not used to regular keyboards. Flat keys are : ( (
flat keys depress less, so you don't waste so much time pressing the button. Plus your finger tires less. Please think of another reason.
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On June 15 2010 14:08 lu_cid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 14:05 Bosu wrote:The best keyboards you can buy are mechanical keyboards. And a solid one will never break. Anyone who says that a cheap keyboard is better has never used a solid mechanical keyboard. Razer doesn't make gaming keyboards. They make crap with lights. I use a filco tenkeyless with brown switches which can be purchased at http://www.elitekeyboards.com. They are a bit pricey, but these things are built like fucking tanks. No way they will break. Another option is the steelseries 7g. However, they only come with brown switches which have a lot more resistance then the brown switches. There may be some cheaper mechanical keyboards on newegg, but the filco and steelseries 7g are probably higher quality. You can do some research yourself into keyboards at http://www.geekhack.org. Tons of mechanical keyboard reviews and other information that is actually pretty sweet. Yup, I think you mean the 7G has black switches which are ok, but I personally prefer browns. I love my filco.
Yea I misstyped. 7g has black switches.
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On June 15 2010 14:09 FortuneSyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 14:02 ella_guru wrote:On June 15 2010 14:01 FortuneSyn wrote:On June 15 2010 13:47 ella_guru wrote: The cheap ones are the best! Laptop keyboards are BS first of all. Second of all, us whities are a lot more anal about keyboards than the pros. Just get a good ol clacky keyed MFer and rock it like its hot. Why do you think laptop keyboards are bad? I'm curious, as I have always played BW/SC2 on my actual laptop so I'm not used to regular keyboards. Flat keys are : ( ( flat keys depress less, so you don't waste so much time pressing the button. Plus your finger tires less. Please think of another reason.
It was just my opinion and didn't really intend to get into a big thing about it : (
But I'm pretty sure the pros know what they are doing so your point is a bit moot.
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But to be honest I kind of like the feel of a full keystroke down it doesn't bother me too much.
And the fucked up part about razer lycosa, they advertise having gaming capabilties, you know this keyboard only has something like 6 different circuitry paths? That's pathetic.
Don't the oldschool keyboards have separate circuits per key?
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On June 15 2010 14:14 Joey.rumz wrote: But to be honest I kind of like the feel of a full keystroke down it doesn't bother me too much.
And the fucked up part about razer lycosa, they advertise having gaming capabilties, you know this keyboard only has something like 6 different circuitry paths? That's pathetic.
Don't the oldschool keyboards have separate circuits per key?
Every keyboard connected through USB will only register 6 keystrokes at a time. Good keyboards with a PS2 connection can go higher. Although I am not sure anyone actually needs more then 6. It's probably not a big deal.
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I just use a cheapass Microsoft keyboard, never bought a new one in my life. Don't really see why someone would spend so much for a keyboard o.O
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On June 15 2010 14:22 numLoCK wrote: I just use a cheapass Microsoft keyboard, never bought a new one in my life. Don't really see why someone would spend so much for a keyboard o.O
If you tried a mechanical keyboard for a few days you would understand. I have never heard anyone who has bought one regret it. They just make other keyboards feel really cheap. Hard to explain to people who have only used membrane keyboards.
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Razer, in my experience, is garbage. If you want a fancy keyboard get a mechanical one, otherwise get the $10 special.
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I have a good ol' Dell keyboard. Fighting!
If I were you I'd just take Tasteless's advice:
Ok, first go to wherever you normally buy computer equipment. look for the cheapest keyboard, the ones in Korea are usually Qsen but other keyboards also work. What you want is a keyboard that is short on all sides, no lengthy bottom or fancy extra keys on the top.
Open the box and close your eyes and press a few keys rapidly in order, you don't want the keys to depress too easily because you need to hear and feel it when you hit one of your hotkeys during the game. You just want a soft clicking sound, not a hard one, whenever you hit any of the buttons; enough so it's audible but not so much that your fingers get tired when you type with it.
You can read the full blog here.
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On June 15 2010 14:29 TimmyMac wrote: Razer, in my experience, is garbage. If you want a fancy keyboard get a mechanical one, otherwise get the $10 special.
Razer makes a quality mouse(ive had my lachesis for roughly 2 years works like i just got it out of the box.) I can not speak for their keyboards, Im using an old ps2 one I got from a pre-packaged pc my mom bought a long time ago.
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Though the keyboards are absolute trash, imho. I have the Razer naga, and it's simply fantastic.
I am going to look into the mechanical keyboard though.
Edit: in the meantime, I am going to use a cheapo keyboard until I make a decision. Thanks fellas for the sweet and epic feedback.
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ABS mechanical is great.
got mine from a thread a while back for 10 bucks...gold plated usb yo
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On June 15 2010 14:01 Coulthard wrote:Never buy expensive keybords for hardcore gaming man  The cheaper the better,I still use the Microsoft wired 500 keybord 5 years!! It's getting harder to find wired keyboards. Can't see the good in having the batteries run out in the middle of an sc game personally? Wired>wireless for gaming
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If you had bought a G15 you wouldn't have had to replace it in the first place. The only damage mine has taken is from cola spills. Oh but it's banned from LAN tournaments I think, because of the macros, but if that's not an issue...
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On June 15 2010 20:35 Adeny wrote: If you had bought a G15 you wouldn't have had to replace it in the first place. The only damage mine has taken is from cola spills. Oh but it's banned from LAN tournaments I think, because of the macros, but if that's not an issue...
G15 is overpriced junk.
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On June 15 2010 21:21 Bosu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 20:35 Adeny wrote: If you had bought a G15 you wouldn't have had to replace it in the first place. The only damage mine has taken is from cola spills. Oh but it's banned from LAN tournaments I think, because of the macros, but if that's not an issue... G15 is overpriced junk.
Except it's extremely robust... Best price/lasting ability for any punching bag/keyboard imo.
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On June 15 2010 14:39 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 14:29 TimmyMac wrote: Razer, in my experience, is garbage. If you want a fancy keyboard get a mechanical one, otherwise get the $10 special. Razer makes a quality mouse(ive had my lachesis for roughly 2 years works like i just got it out of the box.) I can not speak for their keyboards, Im using an old ps2 one I got from a pre-packaged pc my mom bought a long time ago. I dunno, I bought a Copperhead and it died pretty quick - I've NEVER had another mouse die on me like that. Plus that rubberized grip is garbage and wears off. Doesn't seem like $70 of value to me.
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I play on a laptop so idk about keyboards, but my experience with my Razer Krait has been great and it was only $30
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anyone know of a mechanical keyboard with larger keys like that of a laptop?
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On June 16 2010 02:55 TimmyMac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 14:39 Trowabarton756 wrote:On June 15 2010 14:29 TimmyMac wrote: Razer, in my experience, is garbage. If you want a fancy keyboard get a mechanical one, otherwise get the $10 special. Razer makes a quality mouse(ive had my lachesis for roughly 2 years works like i just got it out of the box.) I can not speak for their keyboards, Im using an old ps2 one I got from a pre-packaged pc my mom bought a long time ago. I dunno, I bought a Copperhead and it died pretty quick - I've NEVER had another mouse die on me like that. Plus that rubberized grip is garbage and wears off. Doesn't seem like $70 of value to me.
Almost every mouse I have had has died within about 1-2 years including 2 Microsoft Intellimouse explorers, razer diamondback, razer copperhead, logitech g5. Going on about a year with a year with mx518 right now.
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United States11637 Posts
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On June 15 2010 22:17 Adeny wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 21:21 Bosu wrote:On June 15 2010 20:35 Adeny wrote: If you had bought a G15 you wouldn't have had to replace it in the first place. The only damage mine has taken is from cola spills. Oh but it's banned from LAN tournaments I think, because of the macros, but if that's not an issue... G15 is overpriced junk. Except it's extremely robust... Best price/lasting ability for any punching bag/keyboard imo.
A bunch of keys on my G15 stopped working after I spilled a bit of water on it. Lasting ability my ass. I had a Lycosa but hated it because of the laptop keys and the fact that it wouldn't register certain key presses if you typed too fast. Now I just use that $20 Logitech one that someone already linked from newegg. I don't like the curved space bar very much, but I got used to it pretty quick.
My problem with the laptop-style keyboard was that I pressed the wrong keys while gaming a lot. I have really skinny fingers but still managed to fat-finger number keys while playing SC way too often.
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On June 15 2010 14:05 Bosu wrote:The best keyboards you can buy are mechanical keyboards. And a solid one will never break. Anyone who says that a cheap keyboard is better has never used a mechanical keyboard. Razer doesn't make gaming keyboards. They make crap with lights. I used to have a razer Turantula and always hated it. When it finally broke I did a ton of research. I knew nothing about quality keyboards. I decided to buy a filco tenkeyless with brown switches which can be purchased at http://www.elitekeyboards.com. They are a bit pricey, but these things are built like fucking tanks. No way they will break. Another option is the steelseries 7g. However, they only come with black switches which have a lot more resistance then the brown switches. There may be some cheaper mechanical keyboards on newegg, but the filco and steelseries 7g are probably higher quality. You can do some research yourself into keyboards at http://www.geekhack.org. Tons of mechanical keyboard reviews and other information that is actually pretty sweet.
quoting this again because its accurate and exactly what i was going to say
geekhack is the other of the 3 forums i frequent
gamer keyboards are GARBAGE
membranes suck. switches ftw.
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On June 16 2010 04:18 Bosu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2010 02:55 TimmyMac wrote:On June 15 2010 14:39 Trowabarton756 wrote:On June 15 2010 14:29 TimmyMac wrote: Razer, in my experience, is garbage. If you want a fancy keyboard get a mechanical one, otherwise get the $10 special. Razer makes a quality mouse(ive had my lachesis for roughly 2 years works like i just got it out of the box.) I can not speak for their keyboards, Im using an old ps2 one I got from a pre-packaged pc my mom bought a long time ago. I dunno, I bought a Copperhead and it died pretty quick - I've NEVER had another mouse die on me like that. Plus that rubberized grip is garbage and wears off. Doesn't seem like $70 of value to me. Almost every mouse I have had has died within about 1-2 years including 2 Microsoft Intellimouse explorers, razer diamondback, razer copperhead, logitech g5. Going on about a year with a year with mx518 right now.
lucky, my diamondback died in 3 months (usb cord made out of paper or something really bad) and i went back to my trusty mx518. the mx518's left click eventually died after 4 years of furious clicking, although my mx510 is still working after 5 years. i'm never going to buy another razer product.
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I recently picked up a cheap $10 "gaming" keyboard. Which really only has anti-ghosting and a disable-windows-key-button. But before that I've used about 2 cheap microsoft keyboards for at least 10 years.
I didn't buy a new keyboard because my old one broke either, I just needed another one for a new computer.
Also I prefer the non-laptop-like keys mainly because of feel but I think they tend to be more robust too.
On June 16 2010 08:06 hellobye wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2010 04:18 Bosu wrote:On June 16 2010 02:55 TimmyMac wrote:On June 15 2010 14:39 Trowabarton756 wrote:On June 15 2010 14:29 TimmyMac wrote: Razer, in my experience, is garbage. If you want a fancy keyboard get a mechanical one, otherwise get the $10 special. Razer makes a quality mouse(ive had my lachesis for roughly 2 years works like i just got it out of the box.) I can not speak for their keyboards, Im using an old ps2 one I got from a pre-packaged pc my mom bought a long time ago. I dunno, I bought a Copperhead and it died pretty quick - I've NEVER had another mouse die on me like that. Plus that rubberized grip is garbage and wears off. Doesn't seem like $70 of value to me. Almost every mouse I have had has died within about 1-2 years including 2 Microsoft Intellimouse explorers, razer diamondback, razer copperhead, logitech g5. Going on about a year with a year with mx518 right now. lucky, my diamondback died in 3 months (usb cord made out of paper or something really bad) and i went back to my trusty mx518. the mx518's left click eventually died after 4 years of furious clicking, although my mx510 is still working after 5 years. i'm never going to buy another razer product.
Cheap always seems better. I had some cheap samsung mouse that lasted 8 years (I used it for 5 then gave it to my brother) and the cheapest razer mouse which I'm still using after 4 years.
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imo the cherry browns are better. Linear is worse for games cos you dint get the same response from the switch. that said i prefer my topre realforce over the filco alps keyboard i have. . .. Although i cant reccommend it cos its still far too expensive. If you watch some of artosis lan vids you will see that filco, hhkb and topre are actually pretty popular among some the gamers. There was even a pink one xp. Prolly cos theye manufactured in taiwan and japan with asian language support. But i can definately say they are made really really well and can take alot of abuse. That and theyre just a joy to use.
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I personally use a Das Keyboard with Cherry Blue MX keyswitches (Filco keyboards have these types of switches too.) Very nifty tactile touch. A little on the expensive side though (Filcos and Das' run for about $120.) If you'd even consider ponying up the cash to plop down on one of these, I'd highly recommend it.
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I personally use an OCZ Alchemy Elixir (NOT the Elixir 2).
It's got 10 blue macro keys. The software that comes with it allows you to remap any key on the keyboard to another key, the macro keys can be programmed to macros.
It's got rubber tops, so the letters will wear off faster than other keyboards. But for a $30 budget gaming keyboard, I love it.
The plastic that it's made with seems cheap at first, but it doesn't affect me any in actual use. It was a turn off to me that the left windows key doesn't exist (they literally left a blank space there) but I see the reason.
It's a -long- keyboard, if that's something that bothers you. I personally like it.
Overall, I suggest it. -if- you can find it. I hit up many online stores only to find out they were sold out and the keyboard isn't manufactured anymore.
If anyone buys it and has issues with Windows 7 or 64-bit, send me a message. It's not supported natively but it's possible to make it work, I fixed it for myself.
Cheapest gaming keyboard I could find with Macro keys. I recommend it.
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Im planning to get a Filco soon, would Cherry Blue switches be good for Starcraft?
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On June 17 2010 10:47 Adsee wrote: Im planning to get a Filco soon, would Cherry Blue switches be good for Starcraft?
They should feel about the same as the browns, but the blues will be louder. Some people love the sound. I think it's a bit annoying. And if I brought it to a lan it would probably be a bit ridiculous.
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On June 17 2010 10:47 Adsee wrote: Im planning to get a Filco soon, would Cherry Blue switches be good for Starcraft?
Yeah this discussion also piqued my interest in getting one of these. They say the Cherry Black switch are good for gaming, but I don't think mushy and stiff keys = gaming. I was thinking the browns would have a nice click feeling but not have the ridiculous sounds that the blues have.
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I went for browns over blues because of sound. I was torn between blacks and browns. I went with browns and love the feel. I have never used blacks and don't know anybody who has so I am not sure on them. But since the browns feel good to me I don't think I would want to use more force to push down keys. Probably would make my hands tired after a couple hours. When I was reading geekhacks I know some people recommended blacks for FPS and brown/blues for RTS. I think most people get the browns or blues.
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The only thing Cherry switches are good for is durability imo. You will still have to build up finger strength through practice, there's no way around it. OP if you liked your G15 then just get another one. Not worth the hassle to try and adapt to a new keyboard, they're really all the same in the end, just depends on what you're comfortable with.
I highly advise against spending $100 on a mechanical keyboard unless you have back problems. If you want them for office use or something outside of BW then that's your call. You will not have higher apm with a mechanical keyboard. Unless you're planning to practice 14 hours a day your fingers will never get tired since you're taking constant breaks.
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Even if cherries were only better for durability, why would you buy a keyboard that broke when you can buy one that doesn't It would make more sense to just buy a 10-20$ logitech keyboard that probably uses the same type of keys as the g15.
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as long as the keyboard has 5-key or more rollover on the wasd block atleast then it's cool if you don't play fps then or certain 3rd person rpgs then who cares.
I'm still rocking my Old old G15 i even changed the leds to green after the right side burned out.
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On June 17 2010 14:55 zulu_nation8 wrote: The only thing Cherry switches are good for is durability imo. You will still have to build up finger strength through practice, there's no way around it. OP if you liked your G15 then just get another one. Not worth the hassle to try and adapt to a new keyboard, they're really all the same in the end, just depends on what you're comfortable with.
I highly advise against spending $100 on a mechanical keyboard unless you have back problems. If you want them for office use or something outside of BW then that's your call. You will not have higher apm with a mechanical keyboard. Unless you're planning to practice 14 hours a day your fingers will never get tired since you're taking constant breaks.
thats bullcrap imo, you need less force to trigger a keystroke on a cherry brown then a normal 15 dollar keyboard. it only appears more cos the switch actuation is at the top of the stroke, rather than the middle or bottom. hence theres a bit more resistance but def less force.
but yeahh, dont spend that much on a keyboard if you are satisfied with cheaper options. but if you already own or are considering getting stuff like dinovo edge, lycosa mirror, g19's then it could be worth getting a proper keyboard.
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On June 17 2010 14:59 Bosu wrote: Even if cherries were only better for durability, why would you buy a keyboard that broke when you can buy one that doesn't It would make more sense to just buy a 10-20$ logitech keyboard that probably uses the same type of keys as the g15. i haven't really seen many keyboards break keyboard usually outlasts most other components it's just down to what you prefer using , rubber dome or mechanical
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On June 17 2010 19:35 PobTheCad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2010 14:59 Bosu wrote: Even if cherries were only better for durability, why would you buy a keyboard that broke when you can buy one that doesn't It would make more sense to just buy a 10-20$ logitech keyboard that probably uses the same type of keys as the g15. i haven't really seen many keyboards break keyboard usually outlasts most other components it's just down to what you prefer using , rubber dome or mechanical Depends on the user, some ppl are abusive, eat drink over it and never clean it spill shit on it and then are surprised when they break. Even mechanical keyboards have limits and they are usually less then dome switches. They are just more durable and the pressing the key up and down part of the keyboard, ie more presses until it will give out.
keyboards aren't waterproof... well most aren't
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On June 17 2010 14:22 Bosu wrote: I went for browns over blues because of sound. I was torn between blacks and browns. I went with browns and love the feel. I have never used blacks and don't know anybody who has so I am not sure on them. I love them. I pound my KB hard when typing and don't miss the tactile bump, but I like it for gaming
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My keyboard is awesome  It was $15...lol
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Saitek Eclipse I or II.
It's basically a standard keyboard with slightly quieter keys and backlighting, which I really love. Durable. No wasted space or extra macro buttons.
I've had 2... since I started PC gaming. Since Halo 1 PC days. Spilled a whole thing of Tea on the first one about a year ago, got a second one and did the same thing a few months later.
Went back just for shits and giggles and the first one was working again :D
Durable and sturdy. Popped all the keys off once for a serious cleaning of the board and it was like new. No noticable ware. It has faded, but I can only tell due to comparison with the first.
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My other fear is with these cheap-o keyboards, as they may be really good, just not heavy enough and will move around a lot. I guess I can pin them down with the right surface material though. My hands are giant.
I'm talking CTRL to CTRL from pinky to thumb. It gets really bad when I have a light keyboard. ;(
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