• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:50
CEST 08:50
KST 15:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China3Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16
StarCraft 2
General
Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025! US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 785 users

SC2 vs Brood War

Blogs > neobowman
Post a Reply
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
May 09 2010 05:29 GMT
#1
Since my last blog entry, I've learned how to play, and now hold a pretty decent 50-21 record in the platinum league as Zerg, with my points hovering around mid-1500s. Seeing as how I'm a C- player in Brood War, I was pretty surprised.

I was thinking while watching Flash vs Pure. There's so much going on in Brood War, but I can do almost as well in SC2. Sure, I might miss a spawn larva every now and then, but overall, there's not as huge of a skill gap between me and the top.

For example, in Brood War, if I played a B player, there was no way in hell I would win unless I pull off some of my cheese. My macro just isn't good enough. If we played in SC2, even if we both have solid strategies, I still would have a chance at winning. Macro is just a lot easier.

Same thing with micro. My general SC2 gameplan for the mid-game, mass roaches and hydras. The most micro I do for that is splitting them into two groups so I can send in roaches first to soak damage. That and occassionally splitting them more for a good flank. My late game is infestors, which don't require much micro either, just e and click for parasite, and something else and click for fungal growth. No having to manually click each infestor and cast each spell with a seperate spellcaster. It's just too easy.

I'm not saying that I can win every game in SC2. It's still pretty difficult. But really, the challenge isn't the same as in Brood War. Just doesn't "feel" right.

*****
GeMicles
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada307 Posts
May 09 2010 05:32 GMT
#2
sc2 has been completely noobified. you dont even have to 1a2a3a4a anymore its just 1a. thats just the way it is for now anyway. i guess its now a lot more friendly to the noob community.
i pikachu in the shower
intrudor
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada446 Posts
May 09 2010 05:46 GMT
#3
basically you want your right to be a newbie handed back to you


otherwise 5/5, would read again
USER MIGHT BE WARNED FOR THIS COMMENT
sqwert
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States781 Posts
May 09 2010 05:46 GMT
#4
more strategy, less mechanics. wait until the pros in korea find some glitches that can't be fixed after the game is released so we can have fun again
if everythings coming your way, youre in the wrong lane. sAviOr 4evar!
HaruHaru
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States988 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 06:09:49
May 09 2010 06:09 GMT
#5
seriously the skill gap needs to be increased
i miss the skill gap between me and the noobs
Long live BroodWar!
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
May 09 2010 06:16 GMT
#6
Before when I didn't have the beta, I thought that SC2 was going to be dumbed down for the noobies, and I was actually shocked in how much skill I needed to put into the game. Some of my friends were actually hard to beat (soo easy in BW, lol) and took a lot longer than when I played BW with them. The game is definitely easier to play, but it's probably just to get more people playing. More people = more cashmoney for blizzard.
133 221 333 123 111
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66156 Posts
May 09 2010 06:27 GMT
#7
On May 09 2010 15:09 haruharu wrote:
seriously the skill gap needs to be increased
i miss the skill gap between me and the noobs

POGGERS
Xenocide_Knight
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Korea (South)2625 Posts
May 09 2010 06:35 GMT
#8
On May 09 2010 14:32 GeMicles wrote:
sc2 has been completely noobified. you dont even have to 1a2a3a4a anymore its just 1a. thats just the way it is for now anyway. i guess its now a lot more friendly to the noob community.

well now its just 1
Shine[Kal] #1 fan
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
May 09 2010 07:29 GMT
#9
Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.

Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!
brokenSC
Profile Joined November 2009
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 07:44:15
May 09 2010 07:43 GMT
#10
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote:
Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.

Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!


The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-
roronoe
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada1527 Posts
May 09 2010 07:48 GMT
#11
On May 09 2010 16:43 brokenSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote:
Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.

Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!


The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-


This is what blizzard was aiming for and I think its perfectly fine. Because macro levels are similar, the difference of skill in micro and strategy will influence the game more. That is what a good player should win games by, not by hand speed. Sc1 was way too limiting in the sense that if you can't play very fast, you can't be top tier.
The Purgatory of Endless Depths
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 08:10:20
May 09 2010 08:08 GMT
#12
On May 09 2010 16:48 roronoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2010 16:43 brokenSC wrote:
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote:
Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.

Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!


The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-


This is what blizzard was aiming for and I think its perfectly fine. Because macro levels are similar, the difference of skill in micro and strategy will influence the game more. That is what a good player should win games by, not by hand speed. Sc1 was way too limiting in the sense that if you can't play very fast, you can't be top tier.


Yeah, next thing they will make turn-based football, cuz its too limiting, if you are not durable enough, you'll get tired and you won't abe to run. The way it is right now, people who can't run as fast or can't do awesome tricks to prevent tackles or can't tackle properly can't be top tier, this is so not fair
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
shindigs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4795 Posts
May 09 2010 08:21 GMT
#13
We're all a bit spoiled from BW where what made a player good was outline in standard play and expert mechanics displayed by korean progamers.

SC2 most likely will rely on a different set of skills and methods yet to be invented by the community. However, as the game evolves I'm pretty sure those with a better understanding of BW will be able to adapt more quickly.
Photographer@shindags || twitch.tv/shindigs
brokenSC
Profile Joined November 2009
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 16:52:02
May 09 2010 16:50 GMT
#14
Hahah yeah because there is just so much micro in sc2 right now -.- It is not okay that they toke one of the core mechanics in the game and make it brutally easy.

If macro and micro was as easy as it is in starcraft1 any of those b teamers or practice partner clones could probably take a game off Flash. It just makes the game boring. Anyone could do it.

I feel like you could give someone who has never played sc2 a beta key, teach him a build, and then throw him in a game vs incontrol and he could crap out a descent game....
Hyde
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia14568 Posts
May 09 2010 17:51 GMT
#15
On May 09 2010 17:08 Mortician wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2010 16:48 roronoe wrote:
On May 09 2010 16:43 brokenSC wrote:
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote:
Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.

Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!


The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-


This is what blizzard was aiming for and I think its perfectly fine. Because macro levels are similar, the difference of skill in micro and strategy will influence the game more. That is what a good player should win games by, not by hand speed. Sc1 was way too limiting in the sense that if you can't play very fast, you can't be top tier.


Yeah, next thing they will make turn-based football, cuz its too limiting, if you are not durable enough, you'll get tired and you won't abe to run. The way it is right now, people who can't run as fast or can't do awesome tricks to prevent tackles or can't tackle properly can't be top tier, this is so not fair

hahahaha
I don't get why some people want to limit everything to just strategy and micro...seriously why compete on only two fronts when you can compete on more, like say macro? I mean the point of being top tier was because you could do something others couldn't (macro'ing perfectly in SC is difficult but everyone strives for it). Value comes through scarcity. I guess some people don't appreciate how hard macro was in SC?

You should have seen the big smile my friend had when I told him there was auto mining, MBS, and unlimited selection. His smile grew even bigger when I told him what smart casting was all about, to which he replied "awesome, that makes things so much easier now!"
Because when you left, Brood War was all spotlights and titans. Now, with the death of the big leagues, Brood War has moved to the basements and carparks. Now, Brood War is unlicensed brawls, lost teeth, and bloody fights for fistfulls of money - SirJolt
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
May 09 2010 18:09 GMT
#16
On May 09 2010 16:43 brokenSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote:
Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.

Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!


The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-


You completely missed what I was saying. When I say the game is in beta, I am saying that to illustrate how young the game is, not that I think all the units or abilities will suddenly be changed. Brood war had years to undergo all kinds of experimentation, with people trying to streamline builds and come up with the best possible opening. There is a ton of variation between what people do right now, so until there are streamlined builds, winning games mostly just depends on knowledge.

Also, if I practiced 8 hours a day and you practiced 2 days a week, I am sure you would get absolutely killed every game in every area. You really think your macro is on par with top players right now?
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
May 09 2010 18:45 GMT
#17
The population playing on ICCUP is probably the top ~10% (maybe 20%) of all BW players. Of those, more than half are D level or lower.

The population playing on SC2 Bnet is 100% of all SC2 players. Even if platinum is the top 5%, anyone C-level on ICCUP should expect to be in platinum and doing well ... and I'm pretty sure platinum is more than the top 5%.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
May 09 2010 18:50 GMT
#18
C- is pretty good relative to most people that play BW.

In any game things will balance out. If one thing is too easy there will be more things to replace it that are hard. You can never be perfect so someone will always be better than you.
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 19:38:41
May 09 2010 19:34 GMT
#19
I feel exactly the same and i'm C- too :D

This game seems so easy especially as protoss. And even when you lose you never feel outmacroed or outmicroed.

Usually the other guy just had a better arc or a better unit composition lol.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Mong 157
Leta 125
Mind 94
Shine 31
yabsab 11
Bale 6
Barracks 0
Dota 2
XaKoH 355
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1335
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King119
Other Games
summit1g9949
NeuroSwarm123
SortOf107
ProTech48
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick31886
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH368
• practicex 31
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki43
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2102
League of Legends
• Rush1635
• Lourlo1294
• HappyZerGling155
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
4h 11m
Replay Cast
17h 11m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
WardiTV European League
1d 9h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 17h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.