Since my last blog entry, I've learned how to play, and now hold a pretty decent 50-21 record in the platinum league as Zerg, with my points hovering around mid-1500s. Seeing as how I'm a C- player in Brood War, I was pretty surprised.
I was thinking while watching Flash vs Pure. There's so much going on in Brood War, but I can do almost as well in SC2. Sure, I might miss a spawn larva every now and then, but overall, there's not as huge of a skill gap between me and the top.
For example, in Brood War, if I played a B player, there was no way in hell I would win unless I pull off some of my cheese. My macro just isn't good enough. If we played in SC2, even if we both have solid strategies, I still would have a chance at winning. Macro is just a lot easier.
Same thing with micro. My general SC2 gameplan for the mid-game, mass roaches and hydras. The most micro I do for that is splitting them into two groups so I can send in roaches first to soak damage. That and occassionally splitting them more for a good flank. My late game is infestors, which don't require much micro either, just e and click for parasite, and something else and click for fungal growth. No having to manually click each infestor and cast each spell with a seperate spellcaster. It's just too easy.
I'm not saying that I can win every game in SC2. It's still pretty difficult. But really, the challenge isn't the same as in Brood War. Just doesn't "feel" right.
sc2 has been completely noobified. you dont even have to 1a2a3a4a anymore its just 1a. thats just the way it is for now anyway. i guess its now a lot more friendly to the noob community.
Before when I didn't have the beta, I thought that SC2 was going to be dumbed down for the noobies, and I was actually shocked in how much skill I needed to put into the game. Some of my friends were actually hard to beat (soo easy in BW, lol) and took a lot longer than when I played BW with them. The game is definitely easier to play, but it's probably just to get more people playing. More people = more cashmoney for blizzard.
On May 09 2010 14:32 GeMicles wrote: sc2 has been completely noobified. you dont even have to 1a2a3a4a anymore its just 1a. thats just the way it is for now anyway. i guess its now a lot more friendly to the noob community.
Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.
Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote: Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.
Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!
The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote: Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.
Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!
The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-
This is what blizzard was aiming for and I think its perfectly fine. Because macro levels are similar, the difference of skill in micro and strategy will influence the game more. That is what a good player should win games by, not by hand speed. Sc1 was way too limiting in the sense that if you can't play very fast, you can't be top tier.
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote: Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.
Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!
The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-
This is what blizzard was aiming for and I think its perfectly fine. Because macro levels are similar, the difference of skill in micro and strategy will influence the game more. That is what a good player should win games by, not by hand speed. Sc1 was way too limiting in the sense that if you can't play very fast, you can't be top tier.
Yeah, next thing they will make turn-based football, cuz its too limiting, if you are not durable enough, you'll get tired and you won't abe to run. The way it is right now, people who can't run as fast or can't do awesome tricks to prevent tackles or can't tackle properly can't be top tier, this is so not fair
We're all a bit spoiled from BW where what made a player good was outline in standard play and expert mechanics displayed by korean progamers.
SC2 most likely will rely on a different set of skills and methods yet to be invented by the community. However, as the game evolves I'm pretty sure those with a better understanding of BW will be able to adapt more quickly.
Hahah yeah because there is just so much micro in sc2 right now -.- It is not okay that they toke one of the core mechanics in the game and make it brutally easy.
If macro and micro was as easy as it is in starcraft1 any of those b teamers or practice partner clones could probably take a game off Flash. It just makes the game boring. Anyone could do it.
I feel like you could give someone who has never played sc2 a beta key, teach him a build, and then throw him in a game vs incontrol and he could crap out a descent game....
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote: Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.
Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!
The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-
This is what blizzard was aiming for and I think its perfectly fine. Because macro levels are similar, the difference of skill in micro and strategy will influence the game more. That is what a good player should win games by, not by hand speed. Sc1 was way too limiting in the sense that if you can't play very fast, you can't be top tier.
Yeah, next thing they will make turn-based football, cuz its too limiting, if you are not durable enough, you'll get tired and you won't abe to run. The way it is right now, people who can't run as fast or can't do awesome tricks to prevent tackles or can't tackle properly can't be top tier, this is so not fair
hahahaha I don't get why some people want to limit everything to just strategy and micro...seriously why compete on only two fronts when you can compete on more, like say macro? I mean the point of being top tier was because you could do something others couldn't (macro'ing perfectly in SC is difficult but everyone strives for it). Value comes through scarcity. I guess some people don't appreciate how hard macro was in SC?
You should have seen the big smile my friend had when I told him there was auto mining, MBS, and unlimited selection. His smile grew even bigger when I told him what smart casting was all about, to which he replied "awesome, that makes things so much easier now!"
On May 09 2010 16:29 Salv wrote: Neo, what do you expect, the game is only in beta. Right now, the difference between what I consider a good player and the rest is knowledge and that's it. If you know what counters what, and which units to make in general, you're going to get to platinum and you should do quite well (1500+ ELO). Nothing is streamlined yet, I don't even have a set build I do, I just kind of play and the game just flows. In Starcraft I had a very specific build for each match-up which depending on the map. That isn't the case for SCII unless I decide to 10/10 gate in my natural maybe.
Basically, I think once the very best builds began to show themselves, people will gravitate towards them and then people can work on the little, little things that make them better than every body else. That's just my opinion, give it time, I like SC II more than SC I already, and I was one of the few who blogged about how much I hated it at the time of launch!
The fact that the game is in beta doesn't change anything. This is pretty much the game you will get out of the box with an the exception of a few unit tweaks. Since sc2 is so easy right now, i could practice for 8 hours every single day and you could practice 2 times a week and pretty much macro on par with me. Does that seem fair -.-
You completely missed what I was saying. When I say the game is in beta, I am saying that to illustrate how young the game is, not that I think all the units or abilities will suddenly be changed. Brood war had years to undergo all kinds of experimentation, with people trying to streamline builds and come up with the best possible opening. There is a ton of variation between what people do right now, so until there are streamlined builds, winning games mostly just depends on knowledge.
Also, if I practiced 8 hours a day and you practiced 2 days a week, I am sure you would get absolutely killed every game in every area. You really think your macro is on par with top players right now?
The population playing on ICCUP is probably the top ~10% (maybe 20%) of all BW players. Of those, more than half are D level or lower.
The population playing on SC2 Bnet is 100% of all SC2 players. Even if platinum is the top 5%, anyone C-level on ICCUP should expect to be in platinum and doing well ... and I'm pretty sure platinum is more than the top 5%.
C- is pretty good relative to most people that play BW.
In any game things will balance out. If one thing is too easy there will be more things to replace it that are hard. You can never be perfect so someone will always be better than you.
EPT
