• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:23
CEST 20:23
KST 03:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 226ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon405.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes39Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)102
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 29 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf First season(s) of tastosis gomtv gsl vods? ASL22 General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7287 users

You, Too?

Blogs > dimfish
Post a Reply
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-07 07:20:38
May 07 2010 06:44 GMT
#1
I love mapping, and if you're reading this I assume you do, too. I'm intent on producing tournament-quality SC2 melee maps--if that hypes you up then LET'S GET TO IT!

Before you make great maps you gotta make a bunch of ok maps to iron the kinks out. I aim for greatness with every map, like we all should, but they don't always turn out that way, so let's look at some I've done already and extract what works and what doesn't. Seriously, I have thick skin, please rail on stuff you think is bad or I'll never hit my mark of getting a map into tournament play.

First up: (2)Curtain
Pre-beta I posted several map designs on the Blizzard SC2 forums as hatsForSale (before I discovered TeamLiquid--LOVE FOR TL) and I think this was one of my best concepts:

[image loading]

And I mapped it out:
[image loading]
download (2)Curtain

[edit: remove some non-functional land mass outside of the playable borders that was distracting from the basic map design for this discussion]

So what's going on here? First of all, there is a big open space with no expansions along the top of the map. I did that to encourage crafty army maneuvers. There is a "curtain" of LoS-blockers along that space, and if you a-move your units to the enemy main they will happily walk along the curtain. Good players can use the curtain to ambush a-movers or creep up on the natural, and when good players play each other I think you might see them do a lot of work to get in the best position before a battle--in a way unique to this map. So yeah, I think we're off to a good start where a major feature of the map is potential for exciting army maneuvers!

What else do we have? A third expansion that is also adjacent to the main, but if you don't destroy the rocks you have to walk a longer way to get there. You could float a CC, but it'd be tough to defend an attack on it. Now--before you bawl about "back doors on maps are cow cud," let's have a side discussion.

Destructible path-blocker is an awesome tool in the mapper utility belt. Anything can be misused, so just because you hate it on Blistering Sands doesn't mean every "back door" is bad. So open your mind and let's think about this.

1. Rush distance is key. Nobody plays tournaments on Blood Bath (except maybe a Blood Bath tournament which is like a game in itself!) because the wide variety of possible strategies evaporate when I can get in your base in 12 seconds. So, you have two choices: either you call a moratorium on destructibles and every map has a sufficiently long rush distance (or a sufficient number of start locations) OR you use destructibles judiciously and we get cool maps like Scrap Station with a long-turns-into-short main-to-main distance.

2. Many quality SC1 maps featured destructible back doors. Heartbreak Ridge is a cool map where there is a quick mineral-mining way to get through the backdoor to natural, or a mid-to-late game temple-destroying way. It works, doesn't it? Blistering Sands seems a little frustrating because the back door is really a big hinderance, and for it to be fun you basically have to use it to hinder your opponent before they hinder you. It's not like players can't handle it, but it feels more like work defending your main than an exciting, fun strategy game. So, yeah, I think Blistering Sands basically shows you one way how not to use destructibles.

End Side-Track.

[image loading]

So I have a back door of sorts to the main on Curtain, but please take a good look at it. The back ramp is very near the normal ramp to the main, so it's not hard to use one group of units to defend an attack at either. The back door isn't really there for your enemy to attack through, it's mainly to prevent you from fast-expanding twice! I like the expos hugging the main, and I want you to probably choose the natural first, even though it is more exposed, because it works better in the early game.

So what's not working for me? Really I just think that very good players will want more total expansions on the map, but the map is just where I want it otherwise. I'd consider two islands off to the right and left, maybe. The issue I see is that if there are more expansions to the sides, more land mass and expos to the south, or even north of the curtain, then the whole curtain dynamic is ruined. You want units walking the curtain path frequently or it doesn't work!

Or, the map is in a decent state already. Tell me what you think!

Poll: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

Practice matches, it gives me ideas (3)
 
50%

Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair (2)
 
33%

Just one game with my little brother (1)
 
17%

My tourney matches! (0)
 
0%

6 total votes

Your vote: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

(Vote): My tourney matches!
(Vote): Practice matches, it gives me ideas
(Vote): Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair
(Vote): Just one game with my little brother



Waffles
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Romania605 Posts
May 07 2010 06:49 GMT
#2
doesnt seem mirrored in the top left corner.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 07:03 GMT
#3
That stuff top-left is half-done non-usable background terrain. It used to be totally empty up there, and I haven't decided to go full-blown production pretty with this map yet.
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17070 Posts
May 07 2010 07:26 GMT
#4
While it seems like a decent idea, I doubt the feature will affect gameplay much. Since there aren't expansions up there, the only reason to use the hidden terrain would be to set up some sort of epic flank, but if the opponent is at all careful (for example, by sending a worker or something), he'll know what's coming.

Also the resource count seems a bit low.

It's great that people're making maps, though. I used to be semi-involved in maps in BW and hoped to get into it for SC2, but the Galaxy Editor completely fails on my computer and is a completely black screen. :<
Moderator
Deleted User 55994
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
949 Posts
May 07 2010 08:54 GMT
#5
Does not have enough expansions.
snotboogie
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia3550 Posts
May 07 2010 09:00 GMT
#6
Idra is pissed at this map
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 14:35 GMT
#7
On May 07 2010 18:00 snotboogie wrote:
Idra is pissed at this map


Why? Not enough expansions? Wouldn't he like the nice open areas for flanking MMM balls?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 268
RotterdaM 219
RushiSC 131
BRAT_OK 97
MindelVK 49
UpATreeSC 44
Railgan 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 883
Jaedong 558
Mini 343
Soulkey 271
ggaemo 172
Rush 171
Dewaltoss 143
firebathero 132
soO 50
Bale 18
[ Show more ]
yabsab 16
sorry 14
Dota 2
Gorgc7029
qojqva1620
Counter-Strike
fl0m1687
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King111
Other Games
Grubby2624
singsing2405
FrodaN1521
byalli261
C9.Mang0112
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick34644
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 3
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 0
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4159
• TFBlade930
Other Games
• imaqtpie810
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
5h 37m
The PondCast
15h 37m
Replay Cast
1d 14h
CrankTV Team League
1d 16h
OSC
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Serral vs Bunny
ByuN vs GgMaChine
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
RSL Revival
4 days
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.