• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:53
CET 01:53
KST 09:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza Terran AddOns placement How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
It's March 3rd CasterMuse Youtube Recent recommended BW games Soma Explains: JD's Unrelenting Aggro vs FlaSh TvZ is the most complete match up
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues BWCL Season 64 Announcement The Casual Games of the Week Thread [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Online Quake Live Config Editor Tool Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Just Watchers: Why Some Only…
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3120 users

You, Too?

Blogs > dimfish
Post a Reply
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-07 07:20:38
May 07 2010 06:44 GMT
#1
I love mapping, and if you're reading this I assume you do, too. I'm intent on producing tournament-quality SC2 melee maps--if that hypes you up then LET'S GET TO IT!

Before you make great maps you gotta make a bunch of ok maps to iron the kinks out. I aim for greatness with every map, like we all should, but they don't always turn out that way, so let's look at some I've done already and extract what works and what doesn't. Seriously, I have thick skin, please rail on stuff you think is bad or I'll never hit my mark of getting a map into tournament play.

First up: (2)Curtain
Pre-beta I posted several map designs on the Blizzard SC2 forums as hatsForSale (before I discovered TeamLiquid--LOVE FOR TL) and I think this was one of my best concepts:

[image loading]

And I mapped it out:
[image loading]
download (2)Curtain

[edit: remove some non-functional land mass outside of the playable borders that was distracting from the basic map design for this discussion]

So what's going on here? First of all, there is a big open space with no expansions along the top of the map. I did that to encourage crafty army maneuvers. There is a "curtain" of LoS-blockers along that space, and if you a-move your units to the enemy main they will happily walk along the curtain. Good players can use the curtain to ambush a-movers or creep up on the natural, and when good players play each other I think you might see them do a lot of work to get in the best position before a battle--in a way unique to this map. So yeah, I think we're off to a good start where a major feature of the map is potential for exciting army maneuvers!

What else do we have? A third expansion that is also adjacent to the main, but if you don't destroy the rocks you have to walk a longer way to get there. You could float a CC, but it'd be tough to defend an attack on it. Now--before you bawl about "back doors on maps are cow cud," let's have a side discussion.

Destructible path-blocker is an awesome tool in the mapper utility belt. Anything can be misused, so just because you hate it on Blistering Sands doesn't mean every "back door" is bad. So open your mind and let's think about this.

1. Rush distance is key. Nobody plays tournaments on Blood Bath (except maybe a Blood Bath tournament which is like a game in itself!) because the wide variety of possible strategies evaporate when I can get in your base in 12 seconds. So, you have two choices: either you call a moratorium on destructibles and every map has a sufficiently long rush distance (or a sufficient number of start locations) OR you use destructibles judiciously and we get cool maps like Scrap Station with a long-turns-into-short main-to-main distance.

2. Many quality SC1 maps featured destructible back doors. Heartbreak Ridge is a cool map where there is a quick mineral-mining way to get through the backdoor to natural, or a mid-to-late game temple-destroying way. It works, doesn't it? Blistering Sands seems a little frustrating because the back door is really a big hinderance, and for it to be fun you basically have to use it to hinder your opponent before they hinder you. It's not like players can't handle it, but it feels more like work defending your main than an exciting, fun strategy game. So, yeah, I think Blistering Sands basically shows you one way how not to use destructibles.

End Side-Track.

[image loading]

So I have a back door of sorts to the main on Curtain, but please take a good look at it. The back ramp is very near the normal ramp to the main, so it's not hard to use one group of units to defend an attack at either. The back door isn't really there for your enemy to attack through, it's mainly to prevent you from fast-expanding twice! I like the expos hugging the main, and I want you to probably choose the natural first, even though it is more exposed, because it works better in the early game.

So what's not working for me? Really I just think that very good players will want more total expansions on the map, but the map is just where I want it otherwise. I'd consider two islands off to the right and left, maybe. The issue I see is that if there are more expansions to the sides, more land mass and expos to the south, or even north of the curtain, then the whole curtain dynamic is ruined. You want units walking the curtain path frequently or it doesn't work!

Or, the map is in a decent state already. Tell me what you think!

Poll: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

Practice matches, it gives me ideas (3)
 
50%

Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair (2)
 
33%

Just one game with my little brother (1)
 
17%

My tourney matches! (0)
 
0%

6 total votes

Your vote: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

(Vote): My tourney matches!
(Vote): Practice matches, it gives me ideas
(Vote): Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair
(Vote): Just one game with my little brother



Waffles
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Romania605 Posts
May 07 2010 06:49 GMT
#2
doesnt seem mirrored in the top left corner.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 07:03 GMT
#3
That stuff top-left is half-done non-usable background terrain. It used to be totally empty up there, and I haven't decided to go full-blown production pretty with this map yet.
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17050 Posts
May 07 2010 07:26 GMT
#4
While it seems like a decent idea, I doubt the feature will affect gameplay much. Since there aren't expansions up there, the only reason to use the hidden terrain would be to set up some sort of epic flank, but if the opponent is at all careful (for example, by sending a worker or something), he'll know what's coming.

Also the resource count seems a bit low.

It's great that people're making maps, though. I used to be semi-involved in maps in BW and hoped to get into it for SC2, but the Galaxy Editor completely fails on my computer and is a completely black screen. :<
Moderator
Deleted User 55994
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
949 Posts
May 07 2010 08:54 GMT
#5
Does not have enough expansions.
snotboogie
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia3550 Posts
May 07 2010 09:00 GMT
#6
Idra is pissed at this map
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 14:35 GMT
#7
On May 07 2010 18:00 snotboogie wrote:
Idra is pissed at this map


Why? Not enough expansions? Wouldn't he like the nice open areas for flanking MMM balls?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
LiuLi Cup Grand Finals Group C
CranKy Ducklings120
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 180
JuggernautJason80
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11037
Sea 4524
GuemChi 753
Artosis 687
Shuttle 227
Dota 2
monkeys_forever152
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1799
taco 566
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe67
Other Games
summit1g11195
C9.Mang0294
shahzam180
Maynarde160
ToD143
Mew2King46
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick930
Counter-Strike
PGL101
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH81
• Hupsaiya 57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift2775
Other Games
• imaqtpie1009
• Shiphtur153
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
1d
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Ultimate Battle
3 days
Light vs ZerO
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-02
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.