• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:34
CEST 13:34
KST 20:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2312Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy BSL Season 23 PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27! PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague [ASL22] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13258 users

You, Too?

Blogs > dimfish
Post a Reply
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-07 07:20:38
May 07 2010 06:44 GMT
#1
I love mapping, and if you're reading this I assume you do, too. I'm intent on producing tournament-quality SC2 melee maps--if that hypes you up then LET'S GET TO IT!

Before you make great maps you gotta make a bunch of ok maps to iron the kinks out. I aim for greatness with every map, like we all should, but they don't always turn out that way, so let's look at some I've done already and extract what works and what doesn't. Seriously, I have thick skin, please rail on stuff you think is bad or I'll never hit my mark of getting a map into tournament play.

First up: (2)Curtain
Pre-beta I posted several map designs on the Blizzard SC2 forums as hatsForSale (before I discovered TeamLiquid--LOVE FOR TL) and I think this was one of my best concepts:

[image loading]

And I mapped it out:
[image loading]
download (2)Curtain

[edit: remove some non-functional land mass outside of the playable borders that was distracting from the basic map design for this discussion]

So what's going on here? First of all, there is a big open space with no expansions along the top of the map. I did that to encourage crafty army maneuvers. There is a "curtain" of LoS-blockers along that space, and if you a-move your units to the enemy main they will happily walk along the curtain. Good players can use the curtain to ambush a-movers or creep up on the natural, and when good players play each other I think you might see them do a lot of work to get in the best position before a battle--in a way unique to this map. So yeah, I think we're off to a good start where a major feature of the map is potential for exciting army maneuvers!

What else do we have? A third expansion that is also adjacent to the main, but if you don't destroy the rocks you have to walk a longer way to get there. You could float a CC, but it'd be tough to defend an attack on it. Now--before you bawl about "back doors on maps are cow cud," let's have a side discussion.

Destructible path-blocker is an awesome tool in the mapper utility belt. Anything can be misused, so just because you hate it on Blistering Sands doesn't mean every "back door" is bad. So open your mind and let's think about this.

1. Rush distance is key. Nobody plays tournaments on Blood Bath (except maybe a Blood Bath tournament which is like a game in itself!) because the wide variety of possible strategies evaporate when I can get in your base in 12 seconds. So, you have two choices: either you call a moratorium on destructibles and every map has a sufficiently long rush distance (or a sufficient number of start locations) OR you use destructibles judiciously and we get cool maps like Scrap Station with a long-turns-into-short main-to-main distance.

2. Many quality SC1 maps featured destructible back doors. Heartbreak Ridge is a cool map where there is a quick mineral-mining way to get through the backdoor to natural, or a mid-to-late game temple-destroying way. It works, doesn't it? Blistering Sands seems a little frustrating because the back door is really a big hinderance, and for it to be fun you basically have to use it to hinder your opponent before they hinder you. It's not like players can't handle it, but it feels more like work defending your main than an exciting, fun strategy game. So, yeah, I think Blistering Sands basically shows you one way how not to use destructibles.

End Side-Track.

[image loading]

So I have a back door of sorts to the main on Curtain, but please take a good look at it. The back ramp is very near the normal ramp to the main, so it's not hard to use one group of units to defend an attack at either. The back door isn't really there for your enemy to attack through, it's mainly to prevent you from fast-expanding twice! I like the expos hugging the main, and I want you to probably choose the natural first, even though it is more exposed, because it works better in the early game.

So what's not working for me? Really I just think that very good players will want more total expansions on the map, but the map is just where I want it otherwise. I'd consider two islands off to the right and left, maybe. The issue I see is that if there are more expansions to the sides, more land mass and expos to the south, or even north of the curtain, then the whole curtain dynamic is ruined. You want units walking the curtain path frequently or it doesn't work!

Or, the map is in a decent state already. Tell me what you think!

Poll: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

Practice matches, it gives me ideas (3)
 
50%

Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair (2)
 
33%

Just one game with my little brother (1)
 
17%

My tourney matches! (0)
 
0%

6 total votes

Your vote: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

(Vote): My tourney matches!
(Vote): Practice matches, it gives me ideas
(Vote): Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair
(Vote): Just one game with my little brother



Waffles
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Romania605 Posts
May 07 2010 06:49 GMT
#2
doesnt seem mirrored in the top left corner.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 07:03 GMT
#3
That stuff top-left is half-done non-usable background terrain. It used to be totally empty up there, and I haven't decided to go full-blown production pretty with this map yet.
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17082 Posts
May 07 2010 07:26 GMT
#4
While it seems like a decent idea, I doubt the feature will affect gameplay much. Since there aren't expansions up there, the only reason to use the hidden terrain would be to set up some sort of epic flank, but if the opponent is at all careful (for example, by sending a worker or something), he'll know what's coming.

Also the resource count seems a bit low.

It's great that people're making maps, though. I used to be semi-involved in maps in BW and hoped to get into it for SC2, but the Galaxy Editor completely fails on my computer and is a completely black screen. :<
Moderator
Deleted User 55994
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
949 Posts
May 07 2010 08:54 GMT
#5
Does not have enough expansions.
snotboogie
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia3550 Posts
May 07 2010 09:00 GMT
#6
Idra is pissed at this map
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 14:35 GMT
#7
On May 07 2010 18:00 snotboogie wrote:
Idra is pissed at this map


Why? Not enough expansions? Wouldn't he like the nice open areas for flanking MMM balls?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
WardiTV 10, Group C
IntoTheiNu 752
WardiTV329
ComeBackTV 291
Rex83
IndyStarCraft 63
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
09:00
Korean StarCraft League #91
CranKy Ducklings100
CranKy Ducklings SOOP7
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 82
IndyStarCraft 58
Zoun (SOOP) 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25538
Larva 1827
ggaemo 210
Last 179
Zeus 130
910 51
ToSsGirL 46
Sexy 36
JulyZerg 8
Dota 2
Gorgc4407
XaKoH 404
Pyrionflax102
Fuzer 21
Counter-Strike
kRYSTAL_197
Other Games
Lowko374
XBOCT326
crisheroes251
DeMusliM114
Liquid`LucifroN48
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream14324
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 362
lovetv 11
Other Games
BasetradeTV7
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile112
• Letter142
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1832
Upcoming Events
The PiG Daily
10h 26m
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
Serral vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings
22h 26m
AI Arena Tournament
1d 5h
BSL: Ladder Tournament
1d 7h
GSL
1d 20h
Yamato Cup
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Jaedong
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.