• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:24
CEST 06:24
KST 13:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo9Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Updates to The Core/Core Lite for v5.0.16?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL CK #4 20-21th June Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data needed BW General Discussion VPN experiences
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming! The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8715 users

You, Too?

Blogs > dimfish
Post a Reply
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-07 07:20:38
May 07 2010 06:44 GMT
#1
I love mapping, and if you're reading this I assume you do, too. I'm intent on producing tournament-quality SC2 melee maps--if that hypes you up then LET'S GET TO IT!

Before you make great maps you gotta make a bunch of ok maps to iron the kinks out. I aim for greatness with every map, like we all should, but they don't always turn out that way, so let's look at some I've done already and extract what works and what doesn't. Seriously, I have thick skin, please rail on stuff you think is bad or I'll never hit my mark of getting a map into tournament play.

First up: (2)Curtain
Pre-beta I posted several map designs on the Blizzard SC2 forums as hatsForSale (before I discovered TeamLiquid--LOVE FOR TL) and I think this was one of my best concepts:

[image loading]

And I mapped it out:
[image loading]
download (2)Curtain

[edit: remove some non-functional land mass outside of the playable borders that was distracting from the basic map design for this discussion]

So what's going on here? First of all, there is a big open space with no expansions along the top of the map. I did that to encourage crafty army maneuvers. There is a "curtain" of LoS-blockers along that space, and if you a-move your units to the enemy main they will happily walk along the curtain. Good players can use the curtain to ambush a-movers or creep up on the natural, and when good players play each other I think you might see them do a lot of work to get in the best position before a battle--in a way unique to this map. So yeah, I think we're off to a good start where a major feature of the map is potential for exciting army maneuvers!

What else do we have? A third expansion that is also adjacent to the main, but if you don't destroy the rocks you have to walk a longer way to get there. You could float a CC, but it'd be tough to defend an attack on it. Now--before you bawl about "back doors on maps are cow cud," let's have a side discussion.

Destructible path-blocker is an awesome tool in the mapper utility belt. Anything can be misused, so just because you hate it on Blistering Sands doesn't mean every "back door" is bad. So open your mind and let's think about this.

1. Rush distance is key. Nobody plays tournaments on Blood Bath (except maybe a Blood Bath tournament which is like a game in itself!) because the wide variety of possible strategies evaporate when I can get in your base in 12 seconds. So, you have two choices: either you call a moratorium on destructibles and every map has a sufficiently long rush distance (or a sufficient number of start locations) OR you use destructibles judiciously and we get cool maps like Scrap Station with a long-turns-into-short main-to-main distance.

2. Many quality SC1 maps featured destructible back doors. Heartbreak Ridge is a cool map where there is a quick mineral-mining way to get through the backdoor to natural, or a mid-to-late game temple-destroying way. It works, doesn't it? Blistering Sands seems a little frustrating because the back door is really a big hinderance, and for it to be fun you basically have to use it to hinder your opponent before they hinder you. It's not like players can't handle it, but it feels more like work defending your main than an exciting, fun strategy game. So, yeah, I think Blistering Sands basically shows you one way how not to use destructibles.

End Side-Track.

[image loading]

So I have a back door of sorts to the main on Curtain, but please take a good look at it. The back ramp is very near the normal ramp to the main, so it's not hard to use one group of units to defend an attack at either. The back door isn't really there for your enemy to attack through, it's mainly to prevent you from fast-expanding twice! I like the expos hugging the main, and I want you to probably choose the natural first, even though it is more exposed, because it works better in the early game.

So what's not working for me? Really I just think that very good players will want more total expansions on the map, but the map is just where I want it otherwise. I'd consider two islands off to the right and left, maybe. The issue I see is that if there are more expansions to the sides, more land mass and expos to the south, or even north of the curtain, then the whole curtain dynamic is ruined. You want units walking the curtain path frequently or it doesn't work!

Or, the map is in a decent state already. Tell me what you think!

Poll: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

Practice matches, it gives me ideas (3)
 
50%

Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair (2)
 
33%

Just one game with my little brother (1)
 
17%

My tourney matches! (0)
 
0%

6 total votes

Your vote: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

(Vote): My tourney matches!
(Vote): Practice matches, it gives me ideas
(Vote): Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair
(Vote): Just one game with my little brother



Waffles
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Romania605 Posts
May 07 2010 06:49 GMT
#2
doesnt seem mirrored in the top left corner.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 07:03 GMT
#3
That stuff top-left is half-done non-usable background terrain. It used to be totally empty up there, and I haven't decided to go full-blown production pretty with this map yet.
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17069 Posts
May 07 2010 07:26 GMT
#4
While it seems like a decent idea, I doubt the feature will affect gameplay much. Since there aren't expansions up there, the only reason to use the hidden terrain would be to set up some sort of epic flank, but if the opponent is at all careful (for example, by sending a worker or something), he'll know what's coming.

Also the resource count seems a bit low.

It's great that people're making maps, though. I used to be semi-involved in maps in BW and hoped to get into it for SC2, but the Galaxy Editor completely fails on my computer and is a completely black screen. :<
Moderator
Deleted User 55994
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
949 Posts
May 07 2010 08:54 GMT
#5
Does not have enough expansions.
snotboogie
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia3550 Posts
May 07 2010 09:00 GMT
#6
Idra is pissed at this map
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 14:35 GMT
#7
On May 07 2010 18:00 snotboogie wrote:
Idra is pissed at this map


Why? Not enough expansions? Wouldn't he like the nice open areas for flanking MMM balls?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
22:55
FSL TeamLeague: PTB vs ASH
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft852
RuFF_SC2 139
StarCraft: Brood War
ZergMaN 17
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm147
League of Legends
Doublelift4478
JimRising 612
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv516
Other Games
summit1g7773
C9.Mang0522
monkeys_forever126
ViBE60
Trikslyr44
Mew2King16
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2658
Other Games
gamesdonequick1027
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta30
• practicex 20
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1105
• Lourlo851
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Spring Champion…
6h 36m
GSL
7h 36m
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
14h 36m
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
19h 36m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 6h
GSL
1d 7h
Patches Events
1d 12h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 14h
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 19h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.