• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:00
CEST 22:00
KST 05:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League24Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1265.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
Server Blocker Terran AddOns placement SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War GG Lan Fest Sofia, Bulgaria [this November] [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos [Recap] Hive ZvZ in MonstarZ vs Dreams [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10301 users

You, Too?

Blogs > dimfish
Post a Reply
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-07 07:20:38
May 07 2010 06:44 GMT
#1
I love mapping, and if you're reading this I assume you do, too. I'm intent on producing tournament-quality SC2 melee maps--if that hypes you up then LET'S GET TO IT!

Before you make great maps you gotta make a bunch of ok maps to iron the kinks out. I aim for greatness with every map, like we all should, but they don't always turn out that way, so let's look at some I've done already and extract what works and what doesn't. Seriously, I have thick skin, please rail on stuff you think is bad or I'll never hit my mark of getting a map into tournament play.

First up: (2)Curtain
Pre-beta I posted several map designs on the Blizzard SC2 forums as hatsForSale (before I discovered TeamLiquid--LOVE FOR TL) and I think this was one of my best concepts:

[image loading]

And I mapped it out:
[image loading]
download (2)Curtain

[edit: remove some non-functional land mass outside of the playable borders that was distracting from the basic map design for this discussion]

So what's going on here? First of all, there is a big open space with no expansions along the top of the map. I did that to encourage crafty army maneuvers. There is a "curtain" of LoS-blockers along that space, and if you a-move your units to the enemy main they will happily walk along the curtain. Good players can use the curtain to ambush a-movers or creep up on the natural, and when good players play each other I think you might see them do a lot of work to get in the best position before a battle--in a way unique to this map. So yeah, I think we're off to a good start where a major feature of the map is potential for exciting army maneuvers!

What else do we have? A third expansion that is also adjacent to the main, but if you don't destroy the rocks you have to walk a longer way to get there. You could float a CC, but it'd be tough to defend an attack on it. Now--before you bawl about "back doors on maps are cow cud," let's have a side discussion.

Destructible path-blocker is an awesome tool in the mapper utility belt. Anything can be misused, so just because you hate it on Blistering Sands doesn't mean every "back door" is bad. So open your mind and let's think about this.

1. Rush distance is key. Nobody plays tournaments on Blood Bath (except maybe a Blood Bath tournament which is like a game in itself!) because the wide variety of possible strategies evaporate when I can get in your base in 12 seconds. So, you have two choices: either you call a moratorium on destructibles and every map has a sufficiently long rush distance (or a sufficient number of start locations) OR you use destructibles judiciously and we get cool maps like Scrap Station with a long-turns-into-short main-to-main distance.

2. Many quality SC1 maps featured destructible back doors. Heartbreak Ridge is a cool map where there is a quick mineral-mining way to get through the backdoor to natural, or a mid-to-late game temple-destroying way. It works, doesn't it? Blistering Sands seems a little frustrating because the back door is really a big hinderance, and for it to be fun you basically have to use it to hinder your opponent before they hinder you. It's not like players can't handle it, but it feels more like work defending your main than an exciting, fun strategy game. So, yeah, I think Blistering Sands basically shows you one way how not to use destructibles.

End Side-Track.

[image loading]

So I have a back door of sorts to the main on Curtain, but please take a good look at it. The back ramp is very near the normal ramp to the main, so it's not hard to use one group of units to defend an attack at either. The back door isn't really there for your enemy to attack through, it's mainly to prevent you from fast-expanding twice! I like the expos hugging the main, and I want you to probably choose the natural first, even though it is more exposed, because it works better in the early game.

So what's not working for me? Really I just think that very good players will want more total expansions on the map, but the map is just where I want it otherwise. I'd consider two islands off to the right and left, maybe. The issue I see is that if there are more expansions to the sides, more land mass and expos to the south, or even north of the curtain, then the whole curtain dynamic is ruined. You want units walking the curtain path frequently or it doesn't work!

Or, the map is in a decent state already. Tell me what you think!

Poll: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

Practice matches, it gives me ideas (3)
 
50%

Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair (2)
 
33%

Just one game with my little brother (1)
 
17%

My tourney matches! (0)
 
0%

6 total votes

Your vote: What kind of game would you want to play on (2)Curtain?

(Vote): My tourney matches!
(Vote): Practice matches, it gives me ideas
(Vote): Ladder matches, it's fresh and fair
(Vote): Just one game with my little brother



Waffles
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Romania605 Posts
May 07 2010 06:49 GMT
#2
doesnt seem mirrored in the top left corner.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 07:03 GMT
#3
That stuff top-left is half-done non-usable background terrain. It used to be totally empty up there, and I haven't decided to go full-blown production pretty with this map yet.
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17082 Posts
May 07 2010 07:26 GMT
#4
While it seems like a decent idea, I doubt the feature will affect gameplay much. Since there aren't expansions up there, the only reason to use the hidden terrain would be to set up some sort of epic flank, but if the opponent is at all careful (for example, by sending a worker or something), he'll know what's coming.

Also the resource count seems a bit low.

It's great that people're making maps, though. I used to be semi-involved in maps in BW and hoped to get into it for SC2, but the Galaxy Editor completely fails on my computer and is a completely black screen. :<
Moderator
Deleted User 55994
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
949 Posts
May 07 2010 08:54 GMT
#5
Does not have enough expansions.
snotboogie
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia3550 Posts
May 07 2010 09:00 GMT
#6
Idra is pissed at this map
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 07 2010 14:35 GMT
#7
On May 07 2010 18:00 snotboogie wrote:
Idra is pissed at this map


Why? Not enough expansions? Wouldn't he like the nice open areas for flanking MMM balls?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL Open Qualifier
04:00
Pro & Gosu - Last Chance #1
ZZZero.O83
LiquipediaDiscussion
AI Arena Tournament
01:00
Swiss - Round 6
Laughngamez YouTube
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 56
MindelVK 18
EmSc Tv 15
Nina 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 18494
Shuttle 520
White-Ra 155
Dewaltoss 94
ZZZero.O 83
Mind 71
910 54
Barracks 43
soO 13
Dota 2
canceldota126
League of Legends
JimRising 424
Counter-Strike
fl0m5128
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3422
Liquid`Hasu263
Other Games
summit1g6153
FrodaN896
B2W.Neo689
Khaldor406
byalli398
KnowMe210
crisheroes136
ToD111
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick736
StarCraft 2
angryscii 35
EmSc Tv 15
EmSc2Tv 15
[ Show 25 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 98
• 3DClanTV 54
• Adnapsc2 43
• Reevou 8
• musti20045 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach44
• Azhi_Dahaki28
• blackmanpl 24
• 80smullet 19
• Michael_bg 6
• FirePhoenix3
• Pr0nogo 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4751
League of Legends
• Nemesis2845
• Jankos2077
Other Games
• imaqtpie805
• Shiphtur534
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h
OSC
17h
IPSL
20h
BSL Open Qualifier
23h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 15h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.