• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:50
CEST 14:50
KST 21:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)55Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ] ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Fantasy returning? BW General Discussion Bot on ladder ASL22 General Discussion a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8632 users

SC2 Micro

Blogs > Osmoses
Post a Reply
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 17 2010 00:04 GMT
#1
Looking back, it seems all I've done so far is whine. I feel there's a slight chance I'm misrepresenting my feelings for SC2. I like it, I like the game alot, when I come out of a really close game as a winner I fistpump and go "yeayeyeeeeah!" even if its the middle of the night.

So lets whine a little more. I have a problem with the skill cieling of micro in SC2. Does anyone else feel that it is, in fact, quite low? At least compared to SC:BW? If so, don't hesitate to agree with me. Do it with an exclamation mark at the end so I can feel good about myself. In SC:BW, there were some casters and alot of spells that were severely underused, not because they were no good, but because the time and effort spent to use them were not cost efficient. Spells like lockdown, ensnare, flare and mind control. This meant

A) That they were very rarely seen. Which sucked.
B) When they were used and used well, it was SO AWESOME!

Pick a list of greatest starcraft moments and most of them will probably involve underused spells. I'm terrible with names, but for example there is the malestrom of an entire zerg air army, lockdown on bunch of battlecruisers, flare on a bunch of observers, ensnare on a m&m ball, mind control on dropships.

In my ever so humble opinion, the spells mentioned were ever. so. slightly too hard to use in SC:BW. Seeing them just a bit more often would have really spiced some matchups up. But making it too easy would have reduced their appeal.

This is what has happened in SC2. At the start of any TvP fight, the protoss army gets empd, its a rule, and the entire terran army is stormed with precision, if the toss has templars with mana. Its a rule. Nuking an entire army to shit with a couple of ravens takes less effort than stimming your marines. Its not impressive. Another example? Boxing in your opponents army with sentries. Not fucking hard, OK? But now, as I watch SC2 streams, narrators go nuts when someone blinks low-health stalkers to the back of the line, calling it amazing micro. That's not amazing, a child could do it!

The bad guy is, of course, smartcasting. Except for the case of the stalker blink. That's just plain unimpressive micro :p Why is it that we're impressed by progamer play? Because they're fast. Strategy and metagame and decision making is all fine and well, but they don't make you go "whooo!" We admire progamers because they're fast, speed is impressive. If there was smartcasting in SC:BW, who here would raise their eyebrows when an entire army gets melted by storm, or when a zillion observers/battlecruisers get blinded/lockdowned?

Smartcasting has made the game unimpressive from a spectator point of view, but it has also greatly reduced the satisfaction garnered when you manage to pull a barrage of storms off well. It's not difficult anymore, and knowing that makes even the player himself less elated at his own gameplay.

Can I get a hell yeah? Mmm, endorfins...

OK, moving on to solutions. The obvious one, remove smartcasting, I'll say is the worst one. Yes I said it, it needs to stay. First of all because Blizzard are never going to remove it, I mean are you kidding? Second of all, without smartcasting we have the SC:BW situation where its not worth the effort.

Second solution is to create more opportunities for micro, so many that nobody will be able to do them all. That way we get back the awe of a progamer doing shit that shouldn't be possible with human hands and we also get more depth in battles, the more micro you are able to pull off the better outcome. Right now, as far as TvP goes, the only microing worth the effort is the two-three emps at the start of the battle and possibly storm dodging. Higher rewards for better micro wanted.

Third solution: "its FINE, there is no problem. Smartcasting gives more time to micro other things than spellcasting."

This may be true, apart from for example emp, which is essentially undodgeable and inevidable. Maybe the time saved in not having to individually storm can be used to actually micromanage your zeals, or drop micro your immortals when they get single-targeted? Maybe the problem here is that no koreans have been able to train for 12 hours a day for a couple of years at this game. To be honest, I was never all that impressed by non-korean gameplay in SC:BW either. But if not by storm barrage, muta micro or lurker dodging, what's to make me go "whooooo!" in SC2? Wow, I really have to think hard to even come up with something sarcastic... Uh... Uuuuh... Burrowed banelings?

To be fair it doesn't necessarily have to be micro that gets the adrenaline going, just something significant and perhaps even luck based (so shoot me). Reaver scarabs and spider mines added a multitude of enjoyment to spectating, is there anything even close to those things in SC2?

Hmm, maybe I should rewrite this blog to be about luck rather than micro... Naah.

Whatever, I may be imagining all of this, but at least do me one favor: stop calling stalker blinking "amazing micro".

***
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
MourningWould
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States110 Posts
April 17 2010 00:12 GMT
#2
Umm, a lot of starcraft micro is also luck based. Think storm dodging is fast reactions? It's mostly just predicting and making educated guesses as to where your opponent will throw storms before they do. And you opponent doing the same.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12257 Posts
April 17 2010 00:27 GMT
#3
It's not in a designer's interest to create spells that are intentionally difficult to use or intentionally have little benefit. Mass Lockdown/Blind and such were impressive for exactly that reason, as you said, but who knows what kind of crazy strategies we'd see if that were the norm? Would we start seeing mass Feedback if Ghosts were efficient enough to always build? You have to get out of the mindset that the game will reach a ceiling because it has fewer underused units or abilities, because inevitably strategies will develop to counter those units, which will then in turn have its counter, which will have a counter for that counter. That's how strategy games evolve.
Moderator
intrudor
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada446 Posts
April 17 2010 00:45 GMT
#4
shoulda titled this : SC2 spells
USER MIGHT BE WARNED FOR THIS COMMENT
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
April 17 2010 00:52 GMT
#5
Micro is less about unit control and more about knowing where and when to engage. And it's saddening...
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-17 01:10:39
April 17 2010 01:02 GMT
#6
On April 17 2010 09:12 MourningWould wrote:
Umm, a lot of starcraft micro is also luck based. Think storm dodging is fast reactions? It's mostly just predicting and making educated guesses as to where your opponent will throw storms before they do. And you opponent doing the same.


Well that doesnt completely contradict with the OP since he says that some of those luck based things in bw are really good.
Though I slightly disagree, its also about fast reactions, like when Zero, one some game on outsider got his hydras stormed and he freakin split his left half of the hydras to the left and the right half of the hydras to the right in practically the same freakin time. (I honestly didnt see the time difference).
so sexy.


Anyways, I fully agree with the OP
I was a bit skeptical at first, thinking you were gonna be in favour of removing smartcasting which I would disagree with but no, I agree with everything you said, SC2 is a really fun game already and I also had several fistpump-moments :p but you're absolutely right.


Oh but I wanna add one more thing, which is that I feel like peoples micro still really sucks. I mean it's amazing how many of the current top players still just have one big ass control group when they fight.
but yeah even I can cast perfect mass force fields in a split second
beep boop
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko478
ProTech153
Rex 35
SteadfastSC 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50024
Bisu 1856
Horang2 1183
Hyuk 483
BeSt 454
Soma 400
Mini 333
EffOrt 329
Light 299
Larva 261
[ Show more ]
Rush 128
ZerO 125
Mong 99
Barracks 80
Leta 77
Sea.KH 59
Snow 55
ToSsGirL 49
Pusan 47
Mind 37
Shinee 37
Aegong 28
JYJ 26
Bale 24
Sexy 23
Yoon 23
sorry 19
Noble 12
Terrorterran 12
JulyZerg 11
Icarus 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Dota 2
Gorgc3796
XaKoH 368
Counter-Strike
Fnx 533
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes1409
Khaldor1185
Other Games
gofns37472
singsing2279
olofmeister1031
B2W.Neo459
hiko288
Livibee185
Mew2King78
ArmadaUGS62
Liquid`VortiX13
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream205
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 40
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH192
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 19
• FirePhoenix6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Stellar Fest
10m
OSC
9h 10m
CranKy Ducklings
21h 10m
Online Event
22h 10m
FEL
1d 3h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 4h
BSL: Ladder Tournament
1d 6h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 21h
INu's Battles
1d 23h
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs Light
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
3 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
INu's Battles
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.