• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:41
CEST 00:41
KST 07:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)5Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE12Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"9
StarCraft 2
General
Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Terran or Protoss
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding BW General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Star Con San Diego 2026
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread 2026-27 Football Thread placeholder TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Games, Hormones, and "Dark" …
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4951 users

SC2 Micro

Blogs > Osmoses
Post a Reply
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 17 2010 00:04 GMT
#1
Looking back, it seems all I've done so far is whine. I feel there's a slight chance I'm misrepresenting my feelings for SC2. I like it, I like the game alot, when I come out of a really close game as a winner I fistpump and go "yeayeyeeeeah!" even if its the middle of the night.

So lets whine a little more. I have a problem with the skill cieling of micro in SC2. Does anyone else feel that it is, in fact, quite low? At least compared to SC:BW? If so, don't hesitate to agree with me. Do it with an exclamation mark at the end so I can feel good about myself. In SC:BW, there were some casters and alot of spells that were severely underused, not because they were no good, but because the time and effort spent to use them were not cost efficient. Spells like lockdown, ensnare, flare and mind control. This meant

A) That they were very rarely seen. Which sucked.
B) When they were used and used well, it was SO AWESOME!

Pick a list of greatest starcraft moments and most of them will probably involve underused spells. I'm terrible with names, but for example there is the malestrom of an entire zerg air army, lockdown on bunch of battlecruisers, flare on a bunch of observers, ensnare on a m&m ball, mind control on dropships.

In my ever so humble opinion, the spells mentioned were ever. so. slightly too hard to use in SC:BW. Seeing them just a bit more often would have really spiced some matchups up. But making it too easy would have reduced their appeal.

This is what has happened in SC2. At the start of any TvP fight, the protoss army gets empd, its a rule, and the entire terran army is stormed with precision, if the toss has templars with mana. Its a rule. Nuking an entire army to shit with a couple of ravens takes less effort than stimming your marines. Its not impressive. Another example? Boxing in your opponents army with sentries. Not fucking hard, OK? But now, as I watch SC2 streams, narrators go nuts when someone blinks low-health stalkers to the back of the line, calling it amazing micro. That's not amazing, a child could do it!

The bad guy is, of course, smartcasting. Except for the case of the stalker blink. That's just plain unimpressive micro :p Why is it that we're impressed by progamer play? Because they're fast. Strategy and metagame and decision making is all fine and well, but they don't make you go "whooo!" We admire progamers because they're fast, speed is impressive. If there was smartcasting in SC:BW, who here would raise their eyebrows when an entire army gets melted by storm, or when a zillion observers/battlecruisers get blinded/lockdowned?

Smartcasting has made the game unimpressive from a spectator point of view, but it has also greatly reduced the satisfaction garnered when you manage to pull a barrage of storms off well. It's not difficult anymore, and knowing that makes even the player himself less elated at his own gameplay.

Can I get a hell yeah? Mmm, endorfins...

OK, moving on to solutions. The obvious one, remove smartcasting, I'll say is the worst one. Yes I said it, it needs to stay. First of all because Blizzard are never going to remove it, I mean are you kidding? Second of all, without smartcasting we have the SC:BW situation where its not worth the effort.

Second solution is to create more opportunities for micro, so many that nobody will be able to do them all. That way we get back the awe of a progamer doing shit that shouldn't be possible with human hands and we also get more depth in battles, the more micro you are able to pull off the better outcome. Right now, as far as TvP goes, the only microing worth the effort is the two-three emps at the start of the battle and possibly storm dodging. Higher rewards for better micro wanted.

Third solution: "its FINE, there is no problem. Smartcasting gives more time to micro other things than spellcasting."

This may be true, apart from for example emp, which is essentially undodgeable and inevidable. Maybe the time saved in not having to individually storm can be used to actually micromanage your zeals, or drop micro your immortals when they get single-targeted? Maybe the problem here is that no koreans have been able to train for 12 hours a day for a couple of years at this game. To be honest, I was never all that impressed by non-korean gameplay in SC:BW either. But if not by storm barrage, muta micro or lurker dodging, what's to make me go "whooooo!" in SC2? Wow, I really have to think hard to even come up with something sarcastic... Uh... Uuuuh... Burrowed banelings?

To be fair it doesn't necessarily have to be micro that gets the adrenaline going, just something significant and perhaps even luck based (so shoot me). Reaver scarabs and spider mines added a multitude of enjoyment to spectating, is there anything even close to those things in SC2?

Hmm, maybe I should rewrite this blog to be about luck rather than micro... Naah.

Whatever, I may be imagining all of this, but at least do me one favor: stop calling stalker blinking "amazing micro".

***
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
MourningWould
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States110 Posts
April 17 2010 00:12 GMT
#2
Umm, a lot of starcraft micro is also luck based. Think storm dodging is fast reactions? It's mostly just predicting and making educated guesses as to where your opponent will throw storms before they do. And you opponent doing the same.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12248 Posts
April 17 2010 00:27 GMT
#3
It's not in a designer's interest to create spells that are intentionally difficult to use or intentionally have little benefit. Mass Lockdown/Blind and such were impressive for exactly that reason, as you said, but who knows what kind of crazy strategies we'd see if that were the norm? Would we start seeing mass Feedback if Ghosts were efficient enough to always build? You have to get out of the mindset that the game will reach a ceiling because it has fewer underused units or abilities, because inevitably strategies will develop to counter those units, which will then in turn have its counter, which will have a counter for that counter. That's how strategy games evolve.
Moderator
intrudor
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada446 Posts
April 17 2010 00:45 GMT
#4
shoulda titled this : SC2 spells
USER MIGHT BE WARNED FOR THIS COMMENT
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
April 17 2010 00:52 GMT
#5
Micro is less about unit control and more about knowing where and when to engage. And it's saddening...
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-17 01:10:39
April 17 2010 01:02 GMT
#6
On April 17 2010 09:12 MourningWould wrote:
Umm, a lot of starcraft micro is also luck based. Think storm dodging is fast reactions? It's mostly just predicting and making educated guesses as to where your opponent will throw storms before they do. And you opponent doing the same.


Well that doesnt completely contradict with the OP since he says that some of those luck based things in bw are really good.
Though I slightly disagree, its also about fast reactions, like when Zero, one some game on outsider got his hydras stormed and he freakin split his left half of the hydras to the left and the right half of the hydras to the right in practically the same freakin time. (I honestly didnt see the time difference).
so sexy.


Anyways, I fully agree with the OP
I was a bit skeptical at first, thinking you were gonna be in favour of removing smartcasting which I would disagree with but no, I agree with everything you said, SC2 is a really fun game already and I also had several fistpump-moments :p but you're absolutely right.


Oh but I wanna add one more thing, which is that I feel like peoples micro still really sucks. I mean it's amazing how many of the current top players still just have one big ass control group when they fight.
but yeah even I can cast perfect mass force fields in a split second
beep boop
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
18:30
Mid Season Playoffs
SteadfastSC189
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 189
ProTech92
CosmosSc2 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3504
Artosis 462
Rain 223
NaDa 33
Purpose 12
Dota 2
monkeys_forever165
League of Legends
Doublelift4251
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1471
minikerr64
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0168
Other Games
gofns12185
summit1g8301
tarik_tv6256
shahzam364
UpATreeSC212
ToD163
NeuroSwarm68
Livibee54
ViBE44
JuggernautJason21
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV20
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 83
• musti20045 40
• RyuSc2 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2685
• Scarra725
• Shiphtur514
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 20m
Escore
11h 20m
CrankTV Team League
12h 20m
Big Brain Bouts
17h 20m
Spirit vs sOs
GgMaChine vs Percival
Serral vs MaxPax
OSC
23h 50m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 5h
RSL Revival
1d 10h
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 12h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-29
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.