• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:33
CET 15:33
KST 23:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT26Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0242LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game?
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament How do the "codes" work in GSL?
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 TvZ is the most complete match up CasterMuse Youtube A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone A new season just kicks off
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread New broswer game : STG-World Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here!
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1886 users

SC2 Micro

Blogs > Osmoses
Post a Reply
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 17 2010 00:04 GMT
#1
Looking back, it seems all I've done so far is whine. I feel there's a slight chance I'm misrepresenting my feelings for SC2. I like it, I like the game alot, when I come out of a really close game as a winner I fistpump and go "yeayeyeeeeah!" even if its the middle of the night.

So lets whine a little more. I have a problem with the skill cieling of micro in SC2. Does anyone else feel that it is, in fact, quite low? At least compared to SC:BW? If so, don't hesitate to agree with me. Do it with an exclamation mark at the end so I can feel good about myself. In SC:BW, there were some casters and alot of spells that were severely underused, not because they were no good, but because the time and effort spent to use them were not cost efficient. Spells like lockdown, ensnare, flare and mind control. This meant

A) That they were very rarely seen. Which sucked.
B) When they were used and used well, it was SO AWESOME!

Pick a list of greatest starcraft moments and most of them will probably involve underused spells. I'm terrible with names, but for example there is the malestrom of an entire zerg air army, lockdown on bunch of battlecruisers, flare on a bunch of observers, ensnare on a m&m ball, mind control on dropships.

In my ever so humble opinion, the spells mentioned were ever. so. slightly too hard to use in SC:BW. Seeing them just a bit more often would have really spiced some matchups up. But making it too easy would have reduced their appeal.

This is what has happened in SC2. At the start of any TvP fight, the protoss army gets empd, its a rule, and the entire terran army is stormed with precision, if the toss has templars with mana. Its a rule. Nuking an entire army to shit with a couple of ravens takes less effort than stimming your marines. Its not impressive. Another example? Boxing in your opponents army with sentries. Not fucking hard, OK? But now, as I watch SC2 streams, narrators go nuts when someone blinks low-health stalkers to the back of the line, calling it amazing micro. That's not amazing, a child could do it!

The bad guy is, of course, smartcasting. Except for the case of the stalker blink. That's just plain unimpressive micro :p Why is it that we're impressed by progamer play? Because they're fast. Strategy and metagame and decision making is all fine and well, but they don't make you go "whooo!" We admire progamers because they're fast, speed is impressive. If there was smartcasting in SC:BW, who here would raise their eyebrows when an entire army gets melted by storm, or when a zillion observers/battlecruisers get blinded/lockdowned?

Smartcasting has made the game unimpressive from a spectator point of view, but it has also greatly reduced the satisfaction garnered when you manage to pull a barrage of storms off well. It's not difficult anymore, and knowing that makes even the player himself less elated at his own gameplay.

Can I get a hell yeah? Mmm, endorfins...

OK, moving on to solutions. The obvious one, remove smartcasting, I'll say is the worst one. Yes I said it, it needs to stay. First of all because Blizzard are never going to remove it, I mean are you kidding? Second of all, without smartcasting we have the SC:BW situation where its not worth the effort.

Second solution is to create more opportunities for micro, so many that nobody will be able to do them all. That way we get back the awe of a progamer doing shit that shouldn't be possible with human hands and we also get more depth in battles, the more micro you are able to pull off the better outcome. Right now, as far as TvP goes, the only microing worth the effort is the two-three emps at the start of the battle and possibly storm dodging. Higher rewards for better micro wanted.

Third solution: "its FINE, there is no problem. Smartcasting gives more time to micro other things than spellcasting."

This may be true, apart from for example emp, which is essentially undodgeable and inevidable. Maybe the time saved in not having to individually storm can be used to actually micromanage your zeals, or drop micro your immortals when they get single-targeted? Maybe the problem here is that no koreans have been able to train for 12 hours a day for a couple of years at this game. To be honest, I was never all that impressed by non-korean gameplay in SC:BW either. But if not by storm barrage, muta micro or lurker dodging, what's to make me go "whooooo!" in SC2? Wow, I really have to think hard to even come up with something sarcastic... Uh... Uuuuh... Burrowed banelings?

To be fair it doesn't necessarily have to be micro that gets the adrenaline going, just something significant and perhaps even luck based (so shoot me). Reaver scarabs and spider mines added a multitude of enjoyment to spectating, is there anything even close to those things in SC2?

Hmm, maybe I should rewrite this blog to be about luck rather than micro... Naah.

Whatever, I may be imagining all of this, but at least do me one favor: stop calling stalker blinking "amazing micro".

***
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
MourningWould
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States110 Posts
April 17 2010 00:12 GMT
#2
Umm, a lot of starcraft micro is also luck based. Think storm dodging is fast reactions? It's mostly just predicting and making educated guesses as to where your opponent will throw storms before they do. And you opponent doing the same.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12240 Posts
April 17 2010 00:27 GMT
#3
It's not in a designer's interest to create spells that are intentionally difficult to use or intentionally have little benefit. Mass Lockdown/Blind and such were impressive for exactly that reason, as you said, but who knows what kind of crazy strategies we'd see if that were the norm? Would we start seeing mass Feedback if Ghosts were efficient enough to always build? You have to get out of the mindset that the game will reach a ceiling because it has fewer underused units or abilities, because inevitably strategies will develop to counter those units, which will then in turn have its counter, which will have a counter for that counter. That's how strategy games evolve.
Moderator
intrudor
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada446 Posts
April 17 2010 00:45 GMT
#4
shoulda titled this : SC2 spells
USER MIGHT BE WARNED FOR THIS COMMENT
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
April 17 2010 00:52 GMT
#5
Micro is less about unit control and more about knowing where and when to engage. And it's saddening...
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-17 01:10:39
April 17 2010 01:02 GMT
#6
On April 17 2010 09:12 MourningWould wrote:
Umm, a lot of starcraft micro is also luck based. Think storm dodging is fast reactions? It's mostly just predicting and making educated guesses as to where your opponent will throw storms before they do. And you opponent doing the same.


Well that doesnt completely contradict with the OP since he says that some of those luck based things in bw are really good.
Though I slightly disagree, its also about fast reactions, like when Zero, one some game on outsider got his hydras stormed and he freakin split his left half of the hydras to the left and the right half of the hydras to the right in practically the same freakin time. (I honestly didnt see the time difference).
so sexy.


Anyways, I fully agree with the OP
I was a bit skeptical at first, thinking you were gonna be in favour of removing smartcasting which I would disagree with but no, I agree with everything you said, SC2 is a really fun game already and I also had several fistpump-moments :p but you're absolutely right.


Oh but I wanna add one more thing, which is that I feel like peoples micro still really sucks. I mean it's amazing how many of the current top players still just have one big ass control group when they fight.
but yeah even I can cast perfect mass force fields in a split second
beep boop
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Winter Champion…
12:00
Group C
WardiTV1031
IndyStarCraft 199
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko458
IndyStarCraft 199
ProTech138
Vindicta 39
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43677
Horang2 4536
firebathero 4387
Hyuk 1322
Jaedong 899
Light 456
Rush 161
hero 97
ToSsGirL 84
[sc1f]eonzerg 50
[ Show more ]
sorry 44
Hm[arnc] 33
Terrorterran 15
scan(afreeca) 15
Noble 12
Dota 2
Gorgc4316
qojqva1803
XcaliburYe204
febbydoto11
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2296
allub389
markeloff184
oskar79
kRYSTAL_45
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King106
Other Games
B2W.Neo859
hiko510
crisheroes177
QueenE159
XaKoH 126
Liquid`VortiX78
Sick52
DeMusliM21
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL750
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV493
League of Legends
• Nemesis4402
• TFBlade861
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
18h 28m
CasterMuse Showmatch
18h 28m
Light vs Queen
WardiTV Winter Champion…
21h 28m
The PondCast
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
SC Evo Complete
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-22
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.