• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:29
CEST 22:29
KST 05:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut? Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [ASL22] Ro24 Group C
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4973 users

SC2 Micro

Blogs > Osmoses
Post a Reply
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 17 2010 00:04 GMT
#1
Looking back, it seems all I've done so far is whine. I feel there's a slight chance I'm misrepresenting my feelings for SC2. I like it, I like the game alot, when I come out of a really close game as a winner I fistpump and go "yeayeyeeeeah!" even if its the middle of the night.

So lets whine a little more. I have a problem with the skill cieling of micro in SC2. Does anyone else feel that it is, in fact, quite low? At least compared to SC:BW? If so, don't hesitate to agree with me. Do it with an exclamation mark at the end so I can feel good about myself. In SC:BW, there were some casters and alot of spells that were severely underused, not because they were no good, but because the time and effort spent to use them were not cost efficient. Spells like lockdown, ensnare, flare and mind control. This meant

A) That they were very rarely seen. Which sucked.
B) When they were used and used well, it was SO AWESOME!

Pick a list of greatest starcraft moments and most of them will probably involve underused spells. I'm terrible with names, but for example there is the malestrom of an entire zerg air army, lockdown on bunch of battlecruisers, flare on a bunch of observers, ensnare on a m&m ball, mind control on dropships.

In my ever so humble opinion, the spells mentioned were ever. so. slightly too hard to use in SC:BW. Seeing them just a bit more often would have really spiced some matchups up. But making it too easy would have reduced their appeal.

This is what has happened in SC2. At the start of any TvP fight, the protoss army gets empd, its a rule, and the entire terran army is stormed with precision, if the toss has templars with mana. Its a rule. Nuking an entire army to shit with a couple of ravens takes less effort than stimming your marines. Its not impressive. Another example? Boxing in your opponents army with sentries. Not fucking hard, OK? But now, as I watch SC2 streams, narrators go nuts when someone blinks low-health stalkers to the back of the line, calling it amazing micro. That's not amazing, a child could do it!

The bad guy is, of course, smartcasting. Except for the case of the stalker blink. That's just plain unimpressive micro :p Why is it that we're impressed by progamer play? Because they're fast. Strategy and metagame and decision making is all fine and well, but they don't make you go "whooo!" We admire progamers because they're fast, speed is impressive. If there was smartcasting in SC:BW, who here would raise their eyebrows when an entire army gets melted by storm, or when a zillion observers/battlecruisers get blinded/lockdowned?

Smartcasting has made the game unimpressive from a spectator point of view, but it has also greatly reduced the satisfaction garnered when you manage to pull a barrage of storms off well. It's not difficult anymore, and knowing that makes even the player himself less elated at his own gameplay.

Can I get a hell yeah? Mmm, endorfins...

OK, moving on to solutions. The obvious one, remove smartcasting, I'll say is the worst one. Yes I said it, it needs to stay. First of all because Blizzard are never going to remove it, I mean are you kidding? Second of all, without smartcasting we have the SC:BW situation where its not worth the effort.

Second solution is to create more opportunities for micro, so many that nobody will be able to do them all. That way we get back the awe of a progamer doing shit that shouldn't be possible with human hands and we also get more depth in battles, the more micro you are able to pull off the better outcome. Right now, as far as TvP goes, the only microing worth the effort is the two-three emps at the start of the battle and possibly storm dodging. Higher rewards for better micro wanted.

Third solution: "its FINE, there is no problem. Smartcasting gives more time to micro other things than spellcasting."

This may be true, apart from for example emp, which is essentially undodgeable and inevidable. Maybe the time saved in not having to individually storm can be used to actually micromanage your zeals, or drop micro your immortals when they get single-targeted? Maybe the problem here is that no koreans have been able to train for 12 hours a day for a couple of years at this game. To be honest, I was never all that impressed by non-korean gameplay in SC:BW either. But if not by storm barrage, muta micro or lurker dodging, what's to make me go "whooooo!" in SC2? Wow, I really have to think hard to even come up with something sarcastic... Uh... Uuuuh... Burrowed banelings?

To be fair it doesn't necessarily have to be micro that gets the adrenaline going, just something significant and perhaps even luck based (so shoot me). Reaver scarabs and spider mines added a multitude of enjoyment to spectating, is there anything even close to those things in SC2?

Hmm, maybe I should rewrite this blog to be about luck rather than micro... Naah.

Whatever, I may be imagining all of this, but at least do me one favor: stop calling stalker blinking "amazing micro".

***
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
MourningWould
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States110 Posts
April 17 2010 00:12 GMT
#2
Umm, a lot of starcraft micro is also luck based. Think storm dodging is fast reactions? It's mostly just predicting and making educated guesses as to where your opponent will throw storms before they do. And you opponent doing the same.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12249 Posts
April 17 2010 00:27 GMT
#3
It's not in a designer's interest to create spells that are intentionally difficult to use or intentionally have little benefit. Mass Lockdown/Blind and such were impressive for exactly that reason, as you said, but who knows what kind of crazy strategies we'd see if that were the norm? Would we start seeing mass Feedback if Ghosts were efficient enough to always build? You have to get out of the mindset that the game will reach a ceiling because it has fewer underused units or abilities, because inevitably strategies will develop to counter those units, which will then in turn have its counter, which will have a counter for that counter. That's how strategy games evolve.
Moderator
intrudor
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada446 Posts
April 17 2010 00:45 GMT
#4
shoulda titled this : SC2 spells
USER MIGHT BE WARNED FOR THIS COMMENT
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
April 17 2010 00:52 GMT
#5
Micro is less about unit control and more about knowing where and when to engage. And it's saddening...
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-17 01:10:39
April 17 2010 01:02 GMT
#6
On April 17 2010 09:12 MourningWould wrote:
Umm, a lot of starcraft micro is also luck based. Think storm dodging is fast reactions? It's mostly just predicting and making educated guesses as to where your opponent will throw storms before they do. And you opponent doing the same.


Well that doesnt completely contradict with the OP since he says that some of those luck based things in bw are really good.
Though I slightly disagree, its also about fast reactions, like when Zero, one some game on outsider got his hydras stormed and he freakin split his left half of the hydras to the left and the right half of the hydras to the right in practically the same freakin time. (I honestly didnt see the time difference).
so sexy.


Anyways, I fully agree with the OP
I was a bit skeptical at first, thinking you were gonna be in favour of removing smartcasting which I would disagree with but no, I agree with everything you said, SC2 is a really fun game already and I also had several fistpump-moments :p but you're absolutely right.


Oh but I wanna add one more thing, which is that I feel like peoples micro still really sucks. I mean it's amazing how many of the current top players still just have one big ass control group when they fight.
but yeah even I can cast perfect mass force fields in a split second
beep boop
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 171
EmSc Tv 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3283
Mini 188
Dewaltoss 145
Soulkey 103
ajuk12(nOOB) 18
Dota 2
qojqva3382
Dendi1373
XBOCT1207
XaKoH 505
canceldota4
League of Legends
Doublelift2888
Trikslyr31
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King105
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu477
Other Games
Grubby2981
Liquid`RaSZi2212
fl0m1828
ceh9626
Beastyqt600
Fnx 553
Mlord466
C9.Mang0317
ArmadaUGS114
RotterdaM109
shahzam85
Livibee82
QueenE59
White-Ra47
Organizations
Other Games
angryscii35
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 19
EmSc2Tv 19
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV449
League of Legends
• TFBlade1166
Other Games
• imaqtpie1372
• Shiphtur316
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 31m
Escore
13h 31m
PiG Sty Festival
15h 31m
Serral vs Reynor
HeRoMaRinE vs herO
Big Brain Bouts
19h 31m
MaNa vs Kelazhur
Nicoract vs HeRoMaRinE
Serral vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 13h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 15h
Zoun vs Solar
SHIN vs Maru
Patches Events
1d 19h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-19
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.