• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:21
CEST 14:21
KST 21:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week2[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation14$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL67
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 1 - Final Week Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 658 users

Good listening guide - Day 15

Blogs > Daigomi
Post a Reply
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
March 12 2010 22:55 GMT
#1
[image loading]



My main computer is offline, so I am choosing songs here based on memory rather than listening. I'll just choose albums I know super well, so it shouldn't be a problem.

1. Gorillaz - Demon Days
What? Alternative
When? 2005
Why? This album is just incredible. Damon Albarn and Danger Mouse combined into a mindbogglingly good album.
Show me! + Show Spoiler +


2. L van Beethoven - 32 Variations on an original theme in C Minor
What? Classical
When? 1806
Why? It definitely is gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh. A stunning piano piece by Beethoven.
Show me! + Show Spoiler +


3. Anthemon - Arcanes
What? Symphonic metal
When? 2003
Why? What female vocals in metal should sound like. Symphonic without being Nightwish.
Show me! + Show Spoiler +


4. DOOM - Born like this
What? Hip Hop
When? 2009
Why? Totally worth the wait. Killer lyrics, great production, a mad roller-coaster of samples and hip hop.
Show me! + Show Spoiler +


5. Ulver - Svidd Neger Soundtrack
What? Soundtrack
When? 2003
Why? Choosing an Ulver album is almost impossible. For now, this amazing soundtrack will do.
Show me! + Show Spoiler +



A nice melodic day (barring the DOOM album). I hope you guys enjoy the choices!

Disclaimer: The title says that it is Daigomi's guide to good listening. That means its my opinion. Feel free to disagree as long as you provide reasons; I enjoy a good discussion as much as the next person. Also, I just like listening to music, I don't give a shit for the political implications of any music.

+ Show Spoiler [E-Cookie winners to date] +
Day 4 - Eti307 - Wale sampling Yann Tiersen
Day 8 - - Name a song that samples Rodriguez's Sugar Man.
Day 9 - - Which arcade game's music is sampled in Percee P's 2 Brothers From The Gutter?
Day 14 - ZZangDreamjOy - Cake's Long Skirt/Short Jacket as Chuck's theme song.


Moderator
Eti307
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
Canada3442 Posts
March 12 2010 23:00 GMT
#2
Agreed, Demon Days is such a good album

The new album (Plastic Beach) is a letdown imo, too many featurings.. Only a couple songs prevent it from being a total disaster
Sapraedon
Profile Joined January 2010
United Kingdom142 Posts
March 12 2010 23:45 GMT
#3
Doom is lyrical syntax, abstract acrobat. :3

Espers
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom606 Posts
March 13 2010 00:06 GMT
#4
Gorillaz is the kind of stuff you hear on TV/radio/parties etc and can appreciate and sing along, but I don't really see how it makes you wanna listen to them in your spare time. Might be different to people outside the UK though considering how popular there are/were at one point here
WaveMotion
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States147 Posts
March 13 2010 00:16 GMT
#5
Anthemon is pretty sweet. ill check out their other stuff. though i really only like clint eastwood by the gorillaz.
In heaven, everything is fine.
hoppipolla
Profile Joined January 2010
Australia782 Posts
March 13 2010 01:39 GMT
#6
Gorillaz and MF DOOM are sooooo good. And the song November Has Come where they work together is awesome.
"It's not acceptable"
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
March 13 2010 02:09 GMT
#7
I love gorillaz, my favorite song of theirs is
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
mucker
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1120 Posts
March 13 2010 02:10 GMT
#8
See, now DOOM is an oldschool rapper you don't have to make excuses for. Still bringing something fresh and new and evolving with every album. Wish he would treat his fans better when it comes to live shows though. First time I paid to see him they sent a doomposter - someone else in the mask lipsyncing the tracks until we booed him off stage. Second time he just flat out didn't show up and they ended the show after a super long wait after the opening acts. I know it's the supervillian persona and amusing to think about but it sucks when it happens.

Recommending Jake One's White Van Music. Tons of great tracks, including Trap Door, one of my favorite DOOM tracks.
It's supposed to be automatic but actually you have to press this button.
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
March 13 2010 02:48 GMT
#9
That's one thing I'm afraid about. It seems like anyone can sound good on an album ... but there are really very few musicians who actually sound good live. That's why I'm always afraid of buying expensive tickets to a live show ... because I'm afraid they'll be a terrible disappointment.
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
March 13 2010 08:46 GMT
#10
On March 13 2010 08:00 Eti307 wrote:
Agreed, Demon Days is such a good album

The new album (Plastic Beach) is a letdown imo, too many featurings.. Only a couple songs prevent it from being a total disaster

I am getting the new album today, but I haven't listened to it yet. I've heard very mixed reviews, some people saying it's as good as Demon Days, others saying it is one step away from terrible. Will have to see why I think.
On March 13 2010 09:06 Espers wrote:
Gorillaz is the kind of stuff you hear on TV/radio/parties etc and can appreciate and sing along, but I don't really see how it makes you wanna listen to them in your spare time. Might be different to people outside the UK though considering how popular there are/were at one point here

Well, you can't really judge an album based on radio play, especially not a Gorillaz album. Give the album a listen from start to finish, it is a really good and enjoyable album.
On March 13 2010 10:39 maps wrote:
Gorillaz and MF DOOM are sooooo good. And the song November Has Come where they work together is awesome.

Haha, I wanted to ask a question about which two artists work together, but I decided it was a bit easy. To those saying that Gorillaz are too mainstream, artists like MF DOOM don't just work with anyone :p
On March 13 2010 11:10 mucker wrote:
See, now DOOM is an oldschool rapper you don't have to make excuses for. Still bringing something fresh and new and evolving with every album. Wish he would treat his fans better when it comes to live shows though. First time I paid to see him they sent a doomposter - someone else in the mask lipsyncing the tracks until we booed him off stage. Second time he just flat out didn't show up and they ended the show after a super long wait after the opening acts. I know it's the supervillian persona and amusing to think about but it sucks when it happens.

Recommending Jake One's White Van Music. Tons of great tracks, including Trap Door, one of my favorite DOOM tracks.

In South Africa, we don't get live music really, so fortunately I don't have that problem. And I love Jake One's White Van Music I'll almost certainly still list it at some point.
Moderator
boesthius
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States11637 Posts
March 13 2010 08:52 GMT
#11
--- Nuked ---
Slox
Profile Joined October 2009
United States21 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-13 10:02:24
March 13 2010 10:00 GMT
#12
The more I listen to the stuff you post, the more I realize that I am a fan of a really narrow scope of music...

Anyway, I apologize as this is more a general response to all of your threads, rather than this specific one... but here goes.

I can appreciate a very wide variety of music. I can listen to and enjoy a wide variety of music. I'll give anything a listen once, but it's not often I'm willing to add anything to my regular play list (unless it falls under the vary narrow style of music I seem to like -- apparently).

I have enjoyed the stuff you have posted, even if very little of it will actually make it into my regular listening.


Some random thoughts:

- Metal - I really do not like this genre of music. On very rare occasion I can appreciate it, but I simply do not enjoy this style of music. I do not see the appeal at all. Does it require some degree of skill to play the instruments the way they do? I'm sure it does, but technical difficulty is not justification of ear rape. That said, the metal songs you have posted, have in general been more tolerable/enjoyable for me than stuff I have heard in the past -- so kudos there. The metal song on this one in particular I enjoyed -- would have actually liked it quite a bit if not for the screaming (growling? moaning? I'm not sure what this is even called).

- Electronic - I would really like this genre of music as something to have on in the background while I do something else. However, every single song seems to always contain a sound that sticks out and interferes with my thinking. Very frustrating when I'm listening to a song and I start to really think to myself, "wow this song is really relaxing, I could sit here and listen to this all da--" *insert sound of a saw blade being shaken up and down* "--AMNIT!"

- Rap / Hip-Hop - In general I seem to really like the stuff you have posted from this genre. Not much else to say, but this is nice because I don't often listen to this genre of music aside from a few artists I like and when I hear it in public places.

- Classical - This is something I can always seem to listen to and enjoy, even though I'm not really into this genre. Would I be able to tell a bad piece from a good piece or a good piece from a great piece? Absolutely not. Still, the ones you posted I did enjoy...

- Indie - As expected, it's hit or miss with this one. Some I like quite a bit, others not so much, can't really say what causes me to like some over the others.



In general I guess my music tastes are very mainstream -- unfortunately. I'd like to think that I only enjoy "good" popular music, but it all gets lumped together.

Some things I like:

Harmonies (I simply can't get enough of these -- it's something that is lacking in the music you seem to enjoy though which makes me sad) - I'm a big fan of The Beatles, The Eagles, Alison Krauss and Union Station, Matchbox Twenty, etc.

Singer / Songwriter - I'm a big fan of James Taylor, Ray LaMontagne, Nick Drake, Cat Stevens, etc.



In conclusion; while the music you post isn't exactly to my tastes, it's still very enjoyable overall. Keep up the good work -- love this series of blogs you are doing.


EDIT: Oh and I absolutely MUST add this: if you are listening to artists who do not perform well live, then you are most likely listening to bad music...

I have yet to go to a show and been disappointed by the performance, and I have been to a great many shows.
HoeJJa Fan
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
March 13 2010 17:42 GMT
#13
If a musician can only sound good on an album recording ... and stink live ... then that's that. I'll enjoy the album but I won't buy tix to see them live. Are they bad musicians? Maybe. But at least I can fully enjoy their production corrected album. It doesn't take away that much from the fact that the album sounds good. They just simply can't make good music without some "help".
Daigomi
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
South Africa4316 Posts
March 13 2010 19:09 GMT
#14
On March 13 2010 17:52 boesthius wrote:
God Daigomi, you've got some of the best musical tastes I've seen in a while. Black metal and MFdoom, ridiculously good stuff man. Albeit Ulver has varied genres a bit, I'm glad that you enjoy them. Kveldssanger has to be my favorite album from them, I think.

Haha, thanks! Doing a bit of research now, I've realised that I might not have given Ulver's black metal albums enough of a chance. I listened to Nattens madrigal in about 2001, before I had any of their experimental albums, and i was just too raw for me. Few bands go from melodic to more raw, so I never tried their older albums, which now seems like a mistake. I'll definitely go listen to Kveldssanger!
On March 13 2010 19:00 Slox wrote:
The more I listen to the stuff you post, the more I realize that I am a fan of a really narrow scope of music...

Anyway, I apologize as this is more a general response to all of your threads, rather than this specific one... but here goes.

I can appreciate a very wide variety of music. I can listen to and enjoy a wide variety of music. I'll give anything a listen once, but it's not often I'm willing to add anything to my regular play list (unless it falls under the vary narrow style of music I seem to like -- apparently).

I have enjoyed the stuff you have posted, even if very little of it will actually make it into my regular listening.


Some random thoughts:

- Metal - I really do not like this genre of music. On very rare occasion I can appreciate it, but I simply do not enjoy this style of music. I do not see the appeal at all. Does it require some degree of skill to play the instruments the way they do? I'm sure it does, but technical difficulty is not justification of ear rape. That said, the metal songs you have posted, have in general been more tolerable/enjoyable for me than stuff I have heard in the past -- so kudos there. The metal song on this one in particular I enjoyed -- would have actually liked it quite a bit if not for the screaming (growling? moaning? I'm not sure what this is even called).

- Electronic - I would really like this genre of music as something to have on in the background while I do something else. However, every single song seems to always contain a sound that sticks out and interferes with my thinking. Very frustrating when I'm listening to a song and I start to really think to myself, "wow this song is really relaxing, I could sit here and listen to this all da--" *insert sound of a saw blade being shaken up and down* "--AMNIT!"

- Rap / Hip-Hop - In general I seem to really like the stuff you have posted from this genre. Not much else to say, but this is nice because I don't often listen to this genre of music aside from a few artists I like and when I hear it in public places.

- Classical - This is something I can always seem to listen to and enjoy, even though I'm not really into this genre. Would I be able to tell a bad piece from a good piece or a good piece from a great piece? Absolutely not. Still, the ones you posted I did enjoy...

- Indie - As expected, it's hit or miss with this one. Some I like quite a bit, others not so much, can't really say what causes me to like some over the others.


In general I guess my music tastes are very mainstream -- unfortunately. I'd like to think that I only enjoy "good" popular music, but it all gets lumped together.

Some things I like:

Harmonies (I simply can't get enough of these -- it's something that is lacking in the music you seem to enjoy though which makes me sad) - I'm a big fan of The Beatles, The Eagles, Alison Krauss and Union Station, Matchbox Twenty, etc.

Singer / Songwriter - I'm a big fan of James Taylor, Ray LaMontagne, Nick Drake, Cat Stevens, etc.


In conclusion; while the music you post isn't exactly to my tastes, it's still very enjoyable overall. Keep up the good work -- love this series of blogs you are doing.

EDIT: Oh and I absolutely MUST add this: if you are listening to artists who do not perform well live, then you are most likely listening to bad music...

I have yet to go to a show and been disappointed by the performance, and I have been to a great many shows.

Thanks for the input, you make some interesting comments. Regarding your "regular playlist", the way I see it is the more you listen to music that you're not used to, the more you enjoy it and the more likely you are to add it to your regular playlist. Giving it a try is a good first step, but if you want to expand your musical tastes then you should give the stuff that you find interesting a bit more of a chance. Put one album in your car, and listen to it instead of listening to the radio once or twice, or play an album while browsing or playing a game. You don't have to dedicate your time to it, but play it a bit while doing something else.

With the specific genres: I got into metal by listening to a very select few albums I enjoyed (usually the less heavy things). The most I listened to the songs without growls, the more I was willing to listen to songs with 'one or two growls,' until eventually I enjoyed the growls as well.

I know exactly what you mean with the electronic albums. Usually the jarring-type songs are a bit more technical, which is why I often enjoy them. However, at other times I just want to listen to something relaxing, and then it annoys me. I made quite a few recommendations that don't have the jarring sounds. mum and Felix Laband come to mind now, but I'm sure there are others.

I'm really glad you like the hip-hop, it's one of my favourite genres, but it gets such a bad rep in the media and in popular discourse.

Classical, I'm almost with you. I still don't see myself as an expert in the field, but that might just be because I'm surrounded by people who are (my gf's brother is a professional organist, while her father is a professional pianist). Still, I think classical is about finding something you enjoy, maybe learning a bit more about the pieces you like if you want to. The more I know, the more I enjoy it usually.

Indie is hit and miss for most people not into the genre. Some things are immediately appealing, others demand a bit more from the listener. Just like metal, I started at the easier stuff of indie, and as you get more used to it, you start finding more interesting music to listen to. Just listening to what you do enjoy is a good starting place.

When I was younger I was a complete musical elitist. I would only listen to non-mainstream music. My argument was pretty much "there might be interesting mainstream music, but I don't need to wade through shit to find it." These days I'm much more open to mainstream music, there are artists that make popular music that try to do something a bit different, and they should be respected for what they do
On March 14 2010 02:42 lac29 wrote:
If a musician can only sound good on an album recording ... and stink live ... then that's that. I'll enjoy the album but I won't buy tix to see them live. Are they bad musicians? Maybe. But at least I can fully enjoy their production corrected album. It doesn't take away that much from the fact that the album sounds good. They just simply can't make good music without some "help".

I'll mostly agree with you, but I do have a qualification. Saying that artists need to be good live is similar to saying that electronic artists are not really musicians cause they don't play an instrument. The one situation where I would disagree is with artists that are famous because of their voice. For example, rock groups that aren't that great live are ok, but when singer-songwriters aren't that good live then it will count against them.
Moderator
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs Day 5
Clem vs ReynorLIVE!
Crank 1373
Tasteless1158
ComeBackTV 1040
IndyStarCraft 175
Rex148
3DClanTV 99
IntoTheiNu 54
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1373
Tasteless 1158
IndyStarCraft 175
Rex 148
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 25850
Sea 23078
Rain 7300
Bisu 3096
Jaedong 1347
Hyuk 806
Light 753
Pusan 647
firebathero 466
Mini 451
[ Show more ]
actioN 321
Stork 293
Zeus 270
EffOrt 225
Backho 170
Hyun 161
ToSsGirL 136
Soulkey 116
Snow 71
hero 68
Mind 66
JYJ41
Sea.KH 33
Rush 33
Aegong 32
Shinee 31
sas.Sziky 30
sSak 28
Icarus 21
JulyZerg 21
Sharp 18
Sacsri 16
Free 14
Noble 13
yabsab 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
SilentControl 9
IntoTheRainbow 9
Hm[arnc] 7
Movie 7
ivOry 4
sorry 4
Dota 2
Gorgc8852
XaKoH 457
XcaliburYe310
League of Legends
singsing1774
Counter-Strike
x6flipin551
allub293
flusha283
markeloff58
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor158
Other Games
tarik_tv22914
B2W.Neo1061
shahzam638
crisheroes521
DeMusliM475
Fuzer 290
Liquid`RaSZi165
RotterdaM156
Pyrionflax148
QueenE16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick30904
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1134
• Stunt428
Upcoming Events
OSC
39m
Replay Cast
11h 39m
RSL Revival
21h 39m
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 3h
OSC
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
FEL
1d 23h
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.