• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:20
CEST 17:20
KST 00:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)23Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) Etiquete rules in Asl? Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11686 users

Tewaking Zerg in SC2

Blogs > Go0g3n
Post a Reply
Go0g3n
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Russian Federation410 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 19:49:11
March 02 2010 17:20 GMT
#1
I played over 100 games for Z in this Beta, close to ~130 now. As a lifelong Z user since 98 i was disappointed in a race, not so much balance-wise, but more in developers uproach to rebuilding the race for StarCraft II.

Here's what Zerg looks to me (and many others) now:

a. Boring. Roaches, an early powerful unit that absolutely needs to be pushed out, kills everything it faces and all the fun with it. The role of Zerglings has been downgraded significantly.

b. Not challenging at all for Zerg user. The Zerg units setup in StarCraft II reminds me of an early version of StarCraft, pre Brood War. Let's say in StarCraft 1.04 there were no medics, lurkers, corsairs, no muta micro either. Hydralisks were 75 minerals only, later added + 25 gas, they were slower, had shorter attack range (sounds familiar, doesn't it?). Also there was no variation, only unit at Tier 2 was Mutalisk, and it was just as useful as Muta can be without Micro.

c. Zerg is now very similar to Protoss in SCBW. It has a strong early unit/combination, like never before. It can easliy live off and produce tons of units with 2 bases, there is no real need to go to Hive Tech, because there're no defilers and new Guardians or whatever they're called just suck.

As a result of all that I believe Zerg needs to be retooled.

1. Baneling Nest should be an upgrade for Pool available on Lair Tech, as a trade-off banes should be made more powerful overall and especially against protoss, maybe 120% damage on shields.

2. Remove 'underground movement' ability from roaches, immense healing speed while burrowed is more than enough.

3. Add a mutation or an upgrade for roach that would make it easier to stop early Protoss immortal push, it needs stopping power, not offensive power. Roach as a unit should not be able to win all matchups, like it does now. Perhaps a +defense or +something on your own creep will do for better defense and give an opportunity to fiddle with roaches on extra dumped creep later in the game.

4. Bring back lurkers or a variation of Hydralisk mutation to create a level 2.5 tech, capable of moving while burrowed. (AFAIK Lurkers were removed just before Beta, i played Lurkers in a build Blizzard brought to Russian gaming expo, Roaches were weaker though)

5. Mutalisks to compensate for the lost micro need some sort of an extra third upgrade (researchable) extending the range a tiny bit or even better - the amount of consecutively hit targets by whatever they attack with.

6. Zerg needs a better caster unit on 2nd tier, maybe bring back Plague capable of damaging only to 50% or the same plage but lasting half as long, maybe even slowing regeneration/healing rate, but keep mind control ability as a trade for Swarm.

7. Lings need to be a little tougher, maybe at the expense of decreased speed with glands researched.

8. Because for whatever reason Zerg is now way slower and uncomfortable switching tech in comparison to BW, maybe it's worth adding a way to decrease Lair/Hive building time at a certain extra cost.

I submitted those to Blizzard, not that they would listen to a C+ (at best) noob, but still.

P.S. If any TL admin or editor would fix the title to Tweaking, that would be very appreciated. Thx in advance.

*
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
March 02 2010 17:24 GMT
#2
look how many changes you are suggesting lol
Moderator
iSiN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1075 Posts
March 02 2010 17:27 GMT
#3
I agree with chill that's a LOT of changes. You'd completely throw off the balance in all the MUs. However I do feel Zerg is just so lacking against toss. Mutas were fun until toss started building sentries then transitioning into phoenix and there is no scourge anymore to reduce phoenix numbers :S
Grouty @HoN/PCKJ <--<333 || Jaedong Fan Cafe GFX
Go0g3n
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Russian Federation410 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 18:18:45
March 02 2010 17:33 GMT
#4
I am suggesting changes, of course nobody in their right mind would rebuild the whole race 5 months or less before release. At least a few of those changes could really spicy Zerg gameply experience and XvZ experience with it.
Redunzl
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
862 Posts
March 02 2010 17:33 GMT
#5
any of those changes would be welcome to me.
how about just fix the way roaches stutter-step
lings also could use some reworking... their crack upgrade leaves much to be desired.
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
March 02 2010 18:21 GMT
#6
I agree that something has to be done about zerg and some of your changes sound reasonable, but i honestly cannot imagine anything more imbalanced than borrowed lurkers that can move.
Ecrilon
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
501 Posts
March 02 2010 18:28 GMT
#7
Burrowed Lurkers that can move eh? Let's buff up the dark templar to something like 100/100 and give it a ranged splash attack. Call it "Void Strike." It does extra damage against workers.
There is but one truth.
Go0g3n
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Russian Federation410 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 18:43:15
March 02 2010 18:34 GMT
#8
Think about it. In SCBW Lurkers are at 2.0 Tech, in SC2 they were (and would be) at 2.5 tech, at this point you're already at ~130 supply easily, scans all over, tanks, medivacs, observers, easily a pack of immortals, plus Protoss has sentries with energy field vs ranged damage.

Also "move while burrowed" could be a researchable just like it is for roaches, - Delaying it even further and making it more expansive.

I'm not saying it's a must have ability, but it's an interesting one, especially for the long run of the game, and it's been in StarCraft II since it's debut in 2008, so Blizzard are clearly committed to it.
shindigs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4795 Posts
March 02 2010 19:35 GMT
#9
I think Zerg has a slightly different feel, but they still stay true to the swarm play-style.

I think the reason why roaches are being widely used is because they are so versatile, but in the future as more standard plays become established they'll fall into another niche like all the other units.

When I play against Protoss, I try to avoid mass roach because for me it essentially becomes an all-in before immortals.
Photographer@shindags || twitch.tv/shindigs
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
March 02 2010 19:44 GMT
#10
God damn it took me a long time trying to figure out what Tewaking meant. Haha.

I definitely agree with the better zerg caster unit, so far nothing even comes close to a defiler.
Retvrn to Forvms
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Showmatch
14:30
WardiTV Showmatch #1
Clem vs herOLIVE!
WardiTV1171
Liquipedia
Epic.LAN
13:00
Epic.LAN 48 Group Stage
epiclan51
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 207
RushiSC 43
DenverSC2 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8369
GuemChi 2250
Rain 2174
Jaedong 1692
EffOrt 949
Mini 462
Hyuk 442
firebathero 342
BeSt 258
ZerO 249
[ Show more ]
Rush 227
Stork 217
Snow 208
Larva 177
ggaemo 135
Zeus 105
Hyun 86
Dewaltoss 79
hero 67
Free 43
soO 37
Sharp 36
scan(afreeca) 32
sorry 28
Terrorterran 27
ToSsGirL 26
Barracks 25
JYJ 21
Sexy 21
Hm[arnc] 19
NaDa 18
Rock 18
Sacsri 16
Bale 16
Noble 14
yabsab 14
IntoTheRainbow 12
Yoon 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Purpose 8
Dota 2
Gorgc8340
syndereN292
Trikslyr38
League of Legends
Doublelift2529
Counter-Strike
byalli1069
fl0m731
allub221
kRYSTAL_24
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor44
Other Games
singsing1839
B2W.Neo733
hiko641
crisheroes350
Liquid`VortiX192
XaKoH 164
ToD142
QueenE66
Rex17
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2336
BasetradeTV227
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 18
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• escodisco1344
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1540
League of Legends
• Jankos2306
• TFBlade823
Other Games
• Shiphtur71
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
40m
SHIN vs Elazer
Percival vs Nicoract
Reynor vs Lambo
Replay Cast
8h 40m
RSL Revival
17h 40m
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
18h 40m
Epic.LAN
21h 40m
IPSL
1d
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
1d 17h
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 18h
OSC
1d 21h
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Ret
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Escore Tournament S3: W3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.