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The Truth About China?

Blogs > Undisputed-
Post a Reply
Undisputed-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States379 Posts
January 29 2010 16:30 GMT
#1
I hear and wonder about how much the U.S. depends on China. People make comments about how China owns us due to them buying up our debt. There are rising concerns paired with China's economic growth in our current situation. As well as China's refusal to limit greenhouse gas production to the dismay of many. I came across this article that I thought was interesting and covered these points.

10 China Myths for the New Decade
[Yes it's Heritage, try not to blow a gasket.]

[example]

Myth #4: China is America's banker.

Truth: If there was ever any Chinese financial influence, it is not there now.

The U.S. federal government is running, and is expected to continue running, a gigantic budget deficit, which will hurt the economy for the next decade. China buys some of the bonds to finance that deficit and has about $800 billion in official holdings of U.S. treasuries, plus perhaps that much in other types of holdings.

[image loading]

U.S. Interest Rates and Chinese Purchases of Treasury Bonds

Even so, the conventional wisdom--that America needs Chinese financing to continue its wild spending--turns out to be wrong. Partly because of the damaging jump in the size of the deficit, Chinese bond purchases have become irrelevant.

Official Chinese purchases of U.S. Treasury bonds are on pace to fall well below $100 billion for 2009 (the full-year total is published in February), while the federal government deficit soared to $1.4 trillion. Yet U.S. commercial interest rates are lower than at the end of 2008, when official Chinese purchases were equivalent in size to nearly half the federal deficit.[7] Official Chinese holdings of treasuries equal less than 7 percent of U.S. government debt.[8] Chinese bond purchases no longer seem to matter, if they ever did.

In addition, when Chinese purchases were large, it was because Beijing had no choice but to buy American bonds. The PRC can take in a great deal of money from the world through its trade surplus and other activities. The same rules that keep the Chinese currency undervalued keep Beijing from spending the world's money at home. Most foreign money disbursed in China ends up right back with the central government, by law.[9]

That can leave the PRC sitting on a huge pile of dollars and the U.S. economy as the only place big and solid enough to absorb it back. China has not been lending; they have been investing the only way they can.

Finally, the bulk of China's pile of foreign money can be traced back to the Sino-American trade gap. On exactly the same lines, the PRC ties its currency to the dollar. Linking itself closely to the American economy that way is also the PRC's best choice. In contrast, any American financial dependence on China has almost vanished.

*
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
Draconizard
Profile Joined October 2008
628 Posts
January 29 2010 16:49 GMT
#2
Do we really need yet another China thread?

...in before 10+ pages of poorly worded, generalized attacks on the big, bad communists interspersed with thinly veiled Chinese jingoism that can rationalize any wrongdoing by the PRC.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 17:05:33
January 29 2010 17:04 GMT
#3
I just read a lot of arguments based on assumptions, with a few numbers here and there that are taken out of context, or are given no context at all in the paper. It's kind of a "meh" article. Says a lot without actually saying anything substantial...

Take this:

Official Chinese purchases of U.S. Treasury bonds are on pace to fall well below $100 billion for 2009 (the full-year total is published in February), while the federal government deficit soared to $1.4 trillion. Yet U.S. commercial interest rates are lower than at the end of 2008, when official Chinese purchases were equivalent in size to nearly half the federal deficit.[7] Official Chinese holdings of treasuries equal less than 7 percent of U.S. government debt.[8] Chinese bond purchases no longer seem to matter, if they ever did.


What he did is throw in a bunch of numbers, but failed to explain the significance of them. (Hint, it's not what he's trying to say). And note how he concludes Point 4 after conveniently forgetting to mention how the CURRENT debt held by China will be resolved, while simply speculating heavily that China will reduce purchasing of US bonds.

"Chinese bond purchases no longer seem to matter, if they ever did." This conclusion was interjected in with no supporting evidence, nor anything to explain it afterwards. It was just placed in after a bunch of numbers in the hopes that you will take it as fact.

And as OP you even acknowledged - it's fucking Heritage, everything they say should be lookd at with the highest amount of skepticism possible.
TranslatorBaa!
Not_A_Notion
Profile Joined May 2009
Ireland441 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-29 17:17:07
January 29 2010 17:12 GMT
#4
Is it just me or does the methodology,um, suck, why plot against 30 year mortgage rate and not 30 year bond yields?
The scaling is pretty sucky too, it might as well be a graph of apples and oranges.
The thrust of the argument seems to, China is buying less treasuries but commercial rates haven't gone up.
But there are literally hundreds of other factors that influence commercial rates, again why note show treasury yields?
This is all pretty lame conjecture, in the same way that I can say "Oh since the March 2009 when just before when China started cutting back on US treasury holdings(from graph in OP) the dollar index has fallen 10% therefore the reduction in Chinese bond purchases have damaged the dollar substantially Dollar Index Source
Or the fact that yields on 30 year bonds have gone from 3.6% to 4.5% over the last 12 months.
30 year yields
The whole argument is entirely unconvincing
Gotta agree with Carnivorous Sheep here
EDIT: The other points in the article pretty much suck too
A worrying lack of anvils
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
January 29 2010 19:21 GMT
#5
Crappy article imo.

Nobody said China owns USA, but to say China isn't playing a decent factor in USA's economy right now by buying those bonds just because USA's deficit is bigger than what chinese have bought is absolute nonsense.
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 29 2010 19:30 GMT
#6
Another brilliant blog by Undisputed.
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