I knew this girl in high school, who cut her hair so it looked like a boys. She attempted to speak in a 'deep' voice (you know that voice that girls use when they are pretending to sound like a guy) and wore guy's clothings etc... She would hit on girls, etc...
Well, one day an acquantance of mine came up to me, and said "Dude I think she likes me" I asked the usual, "who?" because I thought this girl was a guy for 4 years. But apparently she was straight physically, but since she believed she was supposed to be a boy, she considered herself gay. Aint that a mind fuck.
Well, to the OP:
What do your friends/family think of the situation?
Is it difficult to get into a relationship (dating-wise) when you express how u feel like your not in your 'real' body?
On January 28 2010 13:32 keepITup wrote: I've never heard gender be defined that way, and honestly I think it's just a deeply thought out excuse/philosophy to defend being trans-gender.
Not that I'm against transgenders or anything.
What have you heard as definitions for gender? I ask because the OP's concept of it is pretty widely accepted. In fact, I haven't heard any radically differing definitions for the word (outside people misusing it, of course).
On January 28 2010 12:44 CommanderFluffy wrote: Are you a transgender?
On January 28 2010 12:45 SanguineToss wrote: Be honest are u a man or a woman
This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
believe it or not that just blew my mind
Well it's very weird so that's a normal reaction I think that most people would want to transition to a male body in that case, but I can't afford it and eventually I've become kind of attached to being partly guy partly girl.
On January 28 2010 12:55 sassy wrote: scy detected
If only I knew what that was, maybe I could explain why you detected it
ScY is a starcraft player known to be a heshe
Ahh okay. Am I also a "heshe" or is that a "shehe"? I have no idea with this terminology. XD
On January 28 2010 12:52 [ZiNC]Ling wrote: This seems to be very important to people so i'll answer honestly. I have a female body (born with it, plan to keep it that way) and a male mind.
A male mind? Um...so you're a lesbian who enjoys sports and cars?
What's the difference between someone who's gay and a transgender under your definition?
Gender is about who you are, sexual orientation is about who you fuck. It's confusing because it's hard to tell whether gay/lesbian/straight refer to someone's gender vs the gender of people they are attracted to, or their sex vs the sex they are attracted to, or something else entirely. I'm bi so I don't have to try to explain whether I'm gay or straight. XD
thopol and xDark.Carnivalx, thanks for posting some good answers<3 The questions are coming in faster than I can reply to them.
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
Liking sports or science, while it may contribute, does not constitute a social role. I think that definition is not referring to any of its components, but rather all of them. I might be wrong about that though.
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
Liking sports or science, while it may contribute, does not constitute a social role. I think that definition is not referring to any of its components, but rather all of them. I might be wrong about that though.
On January 28 2010 13:32 keepITup wrote: I've never heard gender be defined that way, and honestly I think it's just a deeply thought out excuse/philosophy to defend being trans-gender.
Not that I'm against transgenders or anything.
What have you heard as definitions for gender? I ask because the OP's concept of it is pretty widely accepted. In fact, I haven't heard any radically differing definitions for the word (outside people misusing it, of course).
They have always been interchangeable terms for me. Most dictionaries don't go that in-depth.
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
"The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"
Liking sports or science, while it may contribute, does not constitute a social role. I think that definition is not referring to any of its components, but rather all of them. I might be wrong about that though.
I should have been clearer with my examples.
I think I agree with the WHO definition, and I'd say that interests are a very small part of gender roles. For example, people would think it's normal for a guy to like Starcraft, but it's weird for a girl to like Starcraft. Playing Starcraft doesn't *make* me a guy though. It's just one of many tiny statistical indications.
On January 28 2010 14:00 SanguineToss wrote: Wait so since ur a woman but u have a male mind which means u like women. Does this mean ur still technically a virgin cause u dont ...men
I'm bi, so I've dated both men and women, but yes I'm a virgin
ling, there are plenty of short guys, and male hormones are actually more effective than female hormones as far as passability is concerned. Male hormones will grow an adam's apple, deepen your voice, let you grow facial/body hair, develop male type muscle/fat distribution. Other than being short, you would almost certainly be very passable if you decided to do it.
That said, there are two types of surgery involved. Top surgery is removal of the breast tissue and nipple reatachement. This is generally very realistic but takes a while to heal. Bottom surgery just isnt as advanced as it is for mtf. I haven't seen any pictures, but I've heard from many ftm that they are so unsatisfied with what the surgery would give them that they choose not to.
In any case, you are awesome. Even if you never transition (not everyone does) or take hormones (not everyone does) or surgery (not everyone does) you can still express yourself however makes you feel best. If thats wearing male clothes in public, at home alone on the weekends, unisex clothes, no makeup, whatever; the right path for you is whichever one will make you the most happy.
Unfortunately finding which path will make you happy is a very scary things. Be brave and trust yourself. Above all, you are worth it. Life is short, so if you want to do it go for it. If you are uncertain, do everything you can do that's reversible and see how you feel about it. How do you feel when you wear male clothes? How do you feel when you fake a male voice? Of course it will feel silly in the beginning, but it might generate other feelings as well.
On January 28 2010 13:01 XinRan wrote: I don't understand how you define "male mind" and how you know you have a male mind. What is compelling that convinces you that you are the wrong sex?
In addition to all the psychological things we associate with male and female minds (think stereotypes and social constructs) there are actual physical (neurological) differences in male and female brains. This is currently believed to be a result of testosterone imprinting (brain masculinization) in the womb. Males get the testosterone imprinting which rewires their brain, females do not. Interestingly, after that crucial period, all the hormones in the world wont rewire the brain. If you expose a ftm to a whole load of estrogen, the male wiring will remain.
You can see a study showing a possible cause of mtf (an abnormal genetic sequence prevents testosterone imprinting)
In the largest ever genetic study of male to female transsexuals Australian researchers have found a significant genetic link between gender identity and a gene involved in testosterone action.
From an early age people develop an inner sense of being male or female – their gender identity. Transsexuals however, identify with a physical sex opposite to their perceived biological sex.
DNA samples were collected from 112 male to female transsexuals and researchers compared genetic differences with non transsexuals. The results are published in the high impact journal Biological Psychiatry.
The researchers discovered that male to female transsexuals were more likely to have a longer version of a gene which is known to modify the action of the sex hormone testosterone.
"We think that these genetic differences might reduce testosterone action and under masculinise the brain during foetal development." said researcher Lauren Hare.
Another study showing the similarity of female and mtf minds and the similarity of gay and straight male minds (with the two groups being different):
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus Transsexuals experience themselves as being of the opposite sex, despite having the biological characteristics of one sex....Therefore, we determined in 42 subjects the number of somatostatin-expressing neurons in the BSTc in relation to sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and past or present hormonal status. Regardless of sexual orientation, men had almost twice as many somatostatin neurons as women (P < 0.006). The number of neurons in the BSTc of male-to-female transsexuals was similar to that of the females (P = 0.83). In contrast, the neuron number of a female-to-male transsexual was found to be in the male range. Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers. The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.
Thanks for the responses, they're pretty mind-opening.
I tend to attract a lot of guys who find they feel comfortable talking to me and say I'm not crazy/confusing/different like most girls, but if I tell them I'm male gendered they freak out and start thinking they are gay.
Are you attracted to masculine women and/or feminine men? Or feminine women and/or masculine men?
Were you ever encouraged to be feminine? Was there ever a point where you dressed/acted like a "pretty" girl? Did you get any male attention? How were you generally treated at/during the time you "changed" by others (both men and women)? What age was this?
Do you think there is any potential for you to "go strait" if you met the right guy? Seeing as you are still a virgin...what is the likelihood you "made a mistake"?
What are the top three or four key things that made you realize you were male gendered?
I'm trying to understand the psychology of it at an intuitive level. Definitions don't help me very much.
On January 28 2010 13:09 Warrior Madness wrote: masculine mind (more geared towards, sports, games, science, etc.?)
Think about how crazy that is. You're defining gender by interest.
the relationship is actually very interesting. The males liking sports/games/science etc is a social construct. Yet precisely because these social constructs say "males like X" means that people with a masucline brain will tend to follow those constructs and like X. Which is not to say that every ftm likes cars, explosions, guns, boobs etc.
For example, pink (by current convention) is a female color. Precisely because it is, mtf tend to gravitate towards it.
Some social constructs might have a biological basis (some studies have shown women are hardwired to prefer softer colours/tones than men), but the actual association is fairly complex, and the line between the two isnt always clear.
On January 28 2010 14:40 Ilikestarcraft wrote: i played with dolls and wore dresses when i was younger And my sister was the tomboy who never wore skirts or dresses and played sports.
hahaha. Don't worry about it. The symptoms of transgender are often very severe and often come with a whole host of psychological problems generated by it.
Question it, but don't worry about it. If you dont really really want to be a girl right now, chances are you won't wake up tomorrow and suddenly want to be one.
fwiw, playing with dolls, even putting on girls clothes (once or occasionally) is a normal thing for males of all sexual orientations. Wearing a dress once won't make you transgendered. Even prefering to wear girls clothes wont necessarily make you transgendered.
I know guys worry just as much about being transgender without realizing it as they do about that cute girl in the bar being transgendered. You don't have to worry about either one.
On January 28 2010 14:00 SanguineToss wrote: Wait so since ur a woman but u have a male mind which means u like women. Does this mean ur still technically a virgin cause u dont ...men
I'm bi, so I've dated both men and women, but yes I'm a virgin
not to shit all over this thread, or be an ass, BUT if you're a virgin you have no idea whether you are truly bi curious or actually bi sexual in it's entirety.
what i mean is, my brother for example he is gay, but he has sex with women every once in a while and enjoys it, because well every guy likes getting his ... anyways the point is he doesn't love women in the romantic sense, he eventually starts treating the ones that he builds relationships with after the countless intimacies as like sisters ...who he has sex with. what i mean by that is he loves them like you love a friend or a brother, not how you love a lover.
EPT
I think that most people would want to transition to a male body in that case, but I can't afford it and eventually I've become kind of attached to being partly guy partly girl.
