• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:28
CEST 05:28
KST 12:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting2[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent5Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)61Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition295.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 154
StarCraft 2
General
PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent Any rep analyzer that shows resources situation? Whose hotkey signature is this? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop the Construction YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1159 users

Programming tutor? - Page 2

Blogs > Phyre
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21549 Posts
January 08 2010 03:26 GMT
#21
On January 08 2010 11:30 illu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 11:27 Cloud wrote:
On January 08 2010 11:25 illu wrote:
Wait. You need TUTORs to TEACH you how to program? Are you for rela?

Uh what's so wrong about that?

I just don't think it is worth his money to hire someone to teach it to him: writing computer programs is easier than learning how to use chopsticks.

But the way most self-taught programmers code is comparable to using a chopstick as a spear. Sure it works a lot of the time, but everyone else who sees it is gonna wonder what the fuck you were thinking.
Administrator
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 03:32:35
January 08 2010 03:31 GMT
#22
On January 08 2010 11:30 illu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 11:27 Cloud wrote:
On January 08 2010 11:25 illu wrote:
Wait. You need TUTORs to TEACH you how to program? Are you for rela?

Uh what's so wrong about that?

I just don't think it is worth his money to hire someone to teach it to him: writing computer programs is easier than learning how to use chopsticks.


It's easy to write code that works.

It's hard to write code that 1) is flexible so that years down the line unforeseen situations can be easily handled 2) is modular so that thousands of people can concurrently work on it 3) maintains consistent hierarchy and naming conventions so that it is easy to understand.
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Phyre
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1288 Posts
January 08 2010 04:02 GMT
#23
On January 08 2010 12:22 ulszz wrote:
wut u have 4 year cs and need a tutor? and i thought i was going to come out with my cs degree knowing shit...

I was foolish and wasn't able to secure an internship before graduation which made it awfully hard to get an actual programming job right out of college hence why I'm working as a tester right now to get my foot in the door. I'm paying for that stupidity now but I've resolved to redouble my efforts this year.

Just don't be like me, make sure you get that experience via an internship before you graduate. Or at least build up a decent personal portfolio you can talk about and pull code samples and such from. Thinking that this diploma alone would guarantee me a job was so utterly idiotic in hindsight. Makes me wish I could go back in time and punch myself.

Anyway, back to looking towards the future...
"Oh no, I got you with your pants... on your face... That's not how you wear pants." - Nintu, catching 1 hatch lurks.
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
January 08 2010 04:16 GMT
#24
Illu... oh man. Rofl. Disappointed. Your remarks are the true symbolism of a terrible, terrible programmer.

Or you find chopsticks insanely difficult to use.

Anyway the point is, I think it's definitely worth paying money to have good programmers teaching you how to program. You'll develop way less ferral habits, and you'll have someone else's brain to bounce of asap rather than trawling community sites for advice which might be the advice of someone like yourself. And we don't want that.
Oh no
Phyre
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1288 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 05:21:09
January 08 2010 05:01 GMT
#25
On January 08 2010 13:16 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
You'll develop way less ferral habits, and you'll have someone else's brain to bounce of asap rather than trawling community sites for advice which might be the advice of someone like yourself. And we don't want that.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Steering away from bad habits and such.

As I think about this more, any suggestions on what specifically to ask for would be helpful. I think I have a pretty good idea what I would request in terms of tutoring but I'd like to hear what you guys think as well.
"Oh no, I got you with your pants... on your face... That's not how you wear pants." - Nintu, catching 1 hatch lurks.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9104 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 05:23:13
January 08 2010 05:22 GMT
#26
On January 08 2010 11:30 illu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 11:27 Cloud wrote:
On January 08 2010 11:25 illu wrote:
Wait. You need TUTORs to TEACH you how to program? Are you for rela?

Uh what's so wrong about that?

I just don't think it is worth his money to hire someone to teach it to him: writing computer programs is easier than learning how to use chopsticks.


Please post more terribly. I have tried both activities and using chopsticks is far easier.
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 19:56:55
January 08 2010 19:47 GMT
#27
What exactly do you mean by "learning how to program"? Obviously syntax isn't an issue, and I'm assuming your schooling has taught you a number of useful algorithms and how to analyse efficiency and such.

So I'm guessing you are wondering how to write good code.

Personally, I highly doubt the usefulness of being tutored on writing good code.


IMO, the most effective way to learn this skill is to write your own programs, then try to modify / augment them a month or two later. There is nothing more memorable than seeing and struggling with your own past mistakes, and viewing your own code through the eyes of someone who had no idea what you were thinking when you wrote it (not touching your code for a month will generally have this effect).


Another crucial experience is to write one very large program over the course of many months to a year, as opposed to writing many small ones. For one thing, you will inevitably find yourself coming back to pieces of code that you've long-forgotten and needing to improve it, so it takes care of the above. But in addition, there are skills you will learn from writing a large program that you will never learn from writing small ones. Such as, how to organize your code and data so that you can:
- easily find a method or piece of data after you've forgotten where it is
- wrap your mind around all aspects of the increasingly-complex program without going insane
- etc.


For instance, you might try writing a moderately-complex game, and experience the following:

1. You get bogged-down from the growing number of relationships and amount of communication between different game objects.

2. You make your code easier to comprehend by using event senders and listeners for communication between objects, as opposed to having unique methods for every interaction between objects.

3. You start encountering the drawbacks and caveats of event handlers. E.g. maybe you thought, if object B is listening to object A, then object B doesn't need to keep track of object A, but then object B is destroyed and suddenly you get an error because A tried to send an event to B. So now B and A have to know about each other, so that B can tell A when it is being destroyed. But if B simply called a method from A, then A wouldn't have to know about B and the whole interaction would've been much simpler. Or maybe you have A check if B is still active before sending it an event, but now it becomes much harder to pool Bs for reuse, and you might find yourself with a veritable memory leak because the event just doesn't get triggered 99% of the time. In any case, you find a simple call from B to A would have been a much better option in this situation.

4. You gradually learn the kinds of situations where events are useful, and the kinds where they are more trouble than they're worth, and you establish a healthy balance between the two in your game.


Now imagine you learn several dozen things about programming in this way. If you were simply told these things by someone else, and never got to experience them first-hand, how thoroughly would you actually understand those lessons, and how many would you remember two years from now when you end up needing them?
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
January 08 2010 20:09 GMT
#28
GOOD LUCK
computer science isn't easy.
Getting stuff to compile is so annoying.
Sullifam
Phyre
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1288 Posts
January 08 2010 20:50 GMT
#29
On January 09 2010 04:47 Bill307 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

What exactly do you mean by "learning how to program"? Obviously syntax isn't an issue, and I'm assuming your schooling has taught you a number of useful algorithms and how to analyse efficiency and such.

So I'm guessing you are wondering how to write good code.

Personally, I highly doubt the usefulness of being tutored on writing good code.


IMO, the most effective way to learn this skill is to write your own programs, then try to modify / augment them a month or two later. There is nothing more memorable than seeing and struggling with your own past mistakes, and viewing your own code through the eyes of someone who had no idea what you were thinking when you wrote it (not touching your code for a month will generally have this effect).


Another crucial experience is to write one very large program over the course of many months to a year, as opposed to writing many small ones. For one thing, you will inevitably find yourself coming back to pieces of code that you've long-forgotten and needing to improve it, so it takes care of the above. But in addition, there are skills you will learn from writing a large program that you will never learn from writing small ones. Such as, how to organize your code and data so that you can:
- easily find a method or piece of data after you've forgotten where it is
- wrap your mind around all aspects of the increasingly-complex program without going insane
- etc.


For instance, you might try writing a moderately-complex game, and experience the following:

1. You get bogged-down from the growing number of relationships and amount of communication between different game objects.

2. You make your code easier to comprehend by using event senders and listeners for communication between objects, as opposed to having unique methods for every interaction between objects.

3. You start encountering the drawbacks and caveats of event handlers. E.g. maybe you thought, if object B is listening to object A, then object B doesn't need to keep track of object A, but then object B is destroyed and suddenly you get an error because A tried to send an event to B. So now B and A have to know about each other, so that B can tell A when it is being destroyed. But if B simply called a method from A, then A wouldn't have to know about B and the whole interaction would've been much simpler. Or maybe you have A check if B is still active before sending it an event, but now it becomes much harder to pool Bs for reuse, and you might find yourself with a veritable memory leak because the event just doesn't get triggered 99% of the time. In any case, you find a simple call from B to A would have been a much better option in this situation.

4. You gradually learn the kinds of situations where events are useful, and the kinds where they are more trouble than they're worth, and you establish a healthy balance between the two in your game.


Now imagine you learn several dozen things about programming in this way. If you were simply told these things by someone else, and never got to experience them first-hand, how thoroughly would you actually understand those lessons, and how many would you remember two years from now when you end up needing them?

Thanks for the response, I can definitely see what you're getting at. I without a doubt remember the lessons I learned the hard way through weeks and weeks of toiling better than the stuff I was simply told in class. I guess I was thinking about the time that I've been sinking into that kind of approach. I retain things better but it takes a lot longer obviously. Perhaps I'm just getting impatient with myself...

I really should start a larger project, and I've been meaning to for awhile now that you remind me.

So do you really feel there is no way to better take advantage of my proximity to a large collection of programmers? I understand your points but I can't help feeling that I'm squandering an opportunity to accelerate my learning.
"Oh no, I got you with your pants... on your face... That's not how you wear pants." - Nintu, catching 1 hatch lurks.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft446
PartinGtheBigBoy 427
RuFF_SC2 148
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 559
Noble 72
ajuk12(nOOB) 29
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever364
PGG 172
NeuroSwarm40
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King28
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor134
Other Games
summit1g13600
JimRising 706
ViBE222
Maynarde181
kaitlyn46
Nina41
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick740
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 14
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1640
• Rush850
• Lourlo638
Other Games
• WagamamaTV541
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
6h 32m
Barracks vs Snow
Wardi Open
7h 32m
Monday Night Weeklies
12h 32m
Replay Cast
20h 32m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 6h
Soma vs Bisu
OSC
1d 10h
OSC
1d 14h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 20h
The PondCast
3 days
OSC
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Safe House 2
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Safe House 2
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.