• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:34
CET 16:34
KST 00:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0218LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)24Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker10PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)13
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Terran Scanner Sweep Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Revival: Season 4 Korea Qualifier (Feb 14) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
Which units you wish saw more use in the game? StarCraft player reflex TE scores [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Diablo 2 thread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ADHD And Gaming Addiction…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1846 users

(Spoilers)Thoughts on MSL r16 and OSL r8

Blogs > yoden
Post a Reply
yoden
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States64 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-28 21:04:52
December 28 2009 20:59 GMT
#1
I *could* have just posted this in the r16 day 4 thread, but it's really long and I'm narcissistic.

I think there are a couple of overarching themes:

1) Guardians are bad. Seriously. There were some four odd TvZs with guards, and the only win was (Z)Kwanro vs (T)Bogus. And that game was... just bizarre, and I blame the outcome entirely on (T)Bogus (your 2 vs 4 base all-in failed? you just let two islands happily mine away?).

2) (T)Flash's TvZ is *good.* Actually, it's not even fair. How do you counter his 1 rax into FE? We did see it go down to (Z)ZerO in set 2, but that seemed like a combination of luck, map, and scvs bugging out than an actual response . Still, (T)Flash is looking like (Z)Jaedong from this summer, in the r4 of OSL and r8 of MSL. Honestly, I think he's got a great chance to win the OSL ((Z)Calm's just not on the same level... no one is . So that begs the question... can he win both while playing in proleague? Or will he crack under the pressure of so many games?

3) The race distribution is much better this season. In OSL, we've got 1P 1T 2Z, MSL is 3P 3T 2Z...

4) A lot of big names are missing. Does anyone really think the other players in the OSL are as good as (T)Flash? I guess all I can hope for is a (T)Flash vs (P)Movie cheese-fest finals. The power rank and the players in the 1v1 tourneys... don't agree well. I think a lot of the top players are concentrating on proleague to the detriment of their 1v1 performances. (T)Flash of course, is just in a league of his own.

5) (P)BeSt vs (T)Canata was a great series. Nukes, recalls, carriers, taking the opponent's main as a base, having had every expansion taken at least once despite the fact there are only 4 some bases for each player alive at the end...

6) Odd-Eye and Ultimatum are very fun. I think it is partly that they haven't been analyzed to death like the proleague maps. Odd-Eye especially has a weird late game... I don't think the players quite know where to expand to, which leads to awesome back and forth games.

Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17047 Posts
December 28 2009 21:26 GMT
#2
Interestingly, I think it was Idra who said that Guardian builds are actually really effective in practice.
Moderator
So no fek
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3001 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-28 21:28:05
December 28 2009 21:27 GMT
#3
Yeah, (T)Flash is an absolute monster. I'm hoping he pulls in at least one title, though I wouldn't be surprised if he took both. Personally, though unlikely, I'm hoping (P)Movie will take the OSL.


I've only watched one game of (P)BeSt vs (T)Canata, and I have mixed feelings on it. Overall, I thought it was a fun game, but it just drew on too long. If it had ended 10-15 minutes sooner, it easily would have been one of my favorite games ever, but it didn't, so it was only enjoyable.
#1 Shuttle fan - TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #36 BW4lyfe
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
December 28 2009 21:28 GMT
#4
Keep in mind that the power rank is nothing more than one person's view of who the best players in progaming are at the moment and is just one person's opinion (albeit a well-informed person). Also, it was from a month ago, doubtless movie will make this month's power rank, despite a small hiccup against jaedong in proleague.
Sullifam
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
December 28 2009 21:46 GMT
#5
On December 29 2009 06:26 Empyrean wrote:
Interestingly, I think it was Idra who said that Guardian builds are actually really effective in practice.


Of course they are. Why would anyone use a build that isn't effective.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 28 2009 22:50 GMT
#6
Movie vs Calm would be the only evenly matched OSL finals, the problem is that Calm can't beat Flash to make it happen.
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
December 29 2009 00:45 GMT
#7
On December 29 2009 07:50 jalstar wrote:
Movie vs Calm would be the only evenly matched OSL finals, the problem is that Calm can't beat Flash to make it happen.


You know, I want to see Shine beat movie then Flash to win just for the absolute chaos it would create and the amount of bans that would result as fans go nuts with rage. It would be a very interesting thing to read on TL. I personally hold no disposition for any of the players left in the OSL, I will be unaffected by the rage virus.

For MSL, Best vs. Flash is gonna be sick, 2 macro masters fighting it out. I think Jaedong's best chance to win is if Best takes out Flash. While everyone is focused on movie as the next big protoss, I think everyone is missing out on Stats. Dude got solid PvZ and PvP. Since he is a protoss on the same team as Flash, I'll assume he also has good PvT as well. But he might not go 100% vs. JD as he might lack confidence.

I cannot see Kal losing to Hwasin and I can see Light losing to Kwanro, not very likely though. Light has shown to be very good at winning against hyper aggressive zerg attacks (see by.hero).
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-29 07:25:46
December 29 2009 06:57 GMT
#8
On December 29 2009 09:45 lone_hydra wrote:

You know, I want to see Shine beat movie then Flash to win just for the absolute chaos it would create and the amount of bans that would result as fans go nuts with rage. It would be a very interesting thing to read on TL. I personally hold no disposition for any of the players left in the OSL, I will be unaffected by the rage virus.



I personally agree but there's no way that's going to happen.

actually no.

best case scenario is movie wins the osl and a cj player gets some individual league glory for the first time in i don't know how long.

second best is shine wins and everyone nerd rages
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12:00
Bonus Cup #3
Liquipedia
LiuLi Cup
11:00
2025 Grand Finals Playoffs
ByuN vs SerralLIVE!
RotterdaM2376
ComeBackTV 1291
PiGStarcraft765
IndyStarCraft 434
BRAT_OK 234
3DClanTV 92
Rex34
IntoTheiNu 31
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2376
PiGStarcraft765
IndyStarCraft 434
BRAT_OK 234
Rex 34
UpATreeSC 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43084
Flash 1817
Jaedong 1397
firebathero 1021
Hyuk 1006
Soma 999
Light 685
Stork 540
Snow 482
Rush 219
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 176
Sea.KH 83
Bonyth 69
Movie 68
Hm[arnc] 60
Leta 50
Aegong 47
Yoon 38
soO 37
sorry 36
ToSsGirL 28
Free 27
HiyA 23
910 22
Rock 20
IntoTheRainbow 20
JulyZerg 16
Terrorterran 16
yabsab 15
Shinee 14
Shine 12
ivOry 7
Dota 2
Gorgc5966
singsing3453
XcaliburYe131
febbydoto13
Fuzer 10
Counter-Strike
fl0m4014
shoxiejesuss2772
byalli333
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King117
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor555
Liquid`Hasu282
Other Games
B2W.Neo1036
crisheroes421
Mlord310
Hui .127
ArmadaUGS87
KnowMe86
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL37443
Other Games
EGCTV876
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH128
• StrangeGG 39
• Adnapsc2 6
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix8
• Michael_bg 6
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3337
Upcoming Events
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
1h 21m
RSL Revival
2h 26m
AI Arena Tournament
4h 26m
Replay Cast
8h 26m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 26m
LiuLi Cup
19h 26m
Ladder Legends
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Wardi Open
1d 20h
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.