• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:05
CET 17:05
KST 01:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
Vitality disbanding their sc2-team How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash's ASL S21 & Future Plans Announcement Gypsy to Korea BW General Discussion
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2575 users

(Spoilers)Thoughts on MSL r16 and OSL r8

Blogs > yoden
Post a Reply
yoden
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States64 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-28 21:04:52
December 28 2009 20:59 GMT
#1
I *could* have just posted this in the r16 day 4 thread, but it's really long and I'm narcissistic.

I think there are a couple of overarching themes:

1) Guardians are bad. Seriously. There were some four odd TvZs with guards, and the only win was (Z)Kwanro vs (T)Bogus. And that game was... just bizarre, and I blame the outcome entirely on (T)Bogus (your 2 vs 4 base all-in failed? you just let two islands happily mine away?).

2) (T)Flash's TvZ is *good.* Actually, it's not even fair. How do you counter his 1 rax into FE? We did see it go down to (Z)ZerO in set 2, but that seemed like a combination of luck, map, and scvs bugging out than an actual response . Still, (T)Flash is looking like (Z)Jaedong from this summer, in the r4 of OSL and r8 of MSL. Honestly, I think he's got a great chance to win the OSL ((Z)Calm's just not on the same level... no one is . So that begs the question... can he win both while playing in proleague? Or will he crack under the pressure of so many games?

3) The race distribution is much better this season. In OSL, we've got 1P 1T 2Z, MSL is 3P 3T 2Z...

4) A lot of big names are missing. Does anyone really think the other players in the OSL are as good as (T)Flash? I guess all I can hope for is a (T)Flash vs (P)Movie cheese-fest finals. The power rank and the players in the 1v1 tourneys... don't agree well. I think a lot of the top players are concentrating on proleague to the detriment of their 1v1 performances. (T)Flash of course, is just in a league of his own.

5) (P)BeSt vs (T)Canata was a great series. Nukes, recalls, carriers, taking the opponent's main as a base, having had every expansion taken at least once despite the fact there are only 4 some bases for each player alive at the end...

6) Odd-Eye and Ultimatum are very fun. I think it is partly that they haven't been analyzed to death like the proleague maps. Odd-Eye especially has a weird late game... I don't think the players quite know where to expand to, which leads to awesome back and forth games.

Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17050 Posts
December 28 2009 21:26 GMT
#2
Interestingly, I think it was Idra who said that Guardian builds are actually really effective in practice.
Moderator
So no fek
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3001 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-28 21:28:05
December 28 2009 21:27 GMT
#3
Yeah, (T)Flash is an absolute monster. I'm hoping he pulls in at least one title, though I wouldn't be surprised if he took both. Personally, though unlikely, I'm hoping (P)Movie will take the OSL.


I've only watched one game of (P)BeSt vs (T)Canata, and I have mixed feelings on it. Overall, I thought it was a fun game, but it just drew on too long. If it had ended 10-15 minutes sooner, it easily would have been one of my favorite games ever, but it didn't, so it was only enjoyable.
#1 Shuttle fan - TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #36 BW4lyfe
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
December 28 2009 21:28 GMT
#4
Keep in mind that the power rank is nothing more than one person's view of who the best players in progaming are at the moment and is just one person's opinion (albeit a well-informed person). Also, it was from a month ago, doubtless movie will make this month's power rank, despite a small hiccup against jaedong in proleague.
Sullifam
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
December 28 2009 21:46 GMT
#5
On December 29 2009 06:26 Empyrean wrote:
Interestingly, I think it was Idra who said that Guardian builds are actually really effective in practice.


Of course they are. Why would anyone use a build that isn't effective.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 28 2009 22:50 GMT
#6
Movie vs Calm would be the only evenly matched OSL finals, the problem is that Calm can't beat Flash to make it happen.
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
December 29 2009 00:45 GMT
#7
On December 29 2009 07:50 jalstar wrote:
Movie vs Calm would be the only evenly matched OSL finals, the problem is that Calm can't beat Flash to make it happen.


You know, I want to see Shine beat movie then Flash to win just for the absolute chaos it would create and the amount of bans that would result as fans go nuts with rage. It would be a very interesting thing to read on TL. I personally hold no disposition for any of the players left in the OSL, I will be unaffected by the rage virus.

For MSL, Best vs. Flash is gonna be sick, 2 macro masters fighting it out. I think Jaedong's best chance to win is if Best takes out Flash. While everyone is focused on movie as the next big protoss, I think everyone is missing out on Stats. Dude got solid PvZ and PvP. Since he is a protoss on the same team as Flash, I'll assume he also has good PvT as well. But he might not go 100% vs. JD as he might lack confidence.

I cannot see Kal losing to Hwasin and I can see Light losing to Kwanro, not very likely though. Light has shown to be very good at winning against hyper aggressive zerg attacks (see by.hero).
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-29 07:25:46
December 29 2009 06:57 GMT
#8
On December 29 2009 09:45 lone_hydra wrote:

You know, I want to see Shine beat movie then Flash to win just for the absolute chaos it would create and the amount of bans that would result as fans go nuts with rage. It would be a very interesting thing to read on TL. I personally hold no disposition for any of the players left in the OSL, I will be unaffected by the rage virus.



I personally agree but there's no way that's going to happen.

actually no.

best case scenario is movie wins the osl and a cj player gets some individual league glory for the first time in i don't know how long.

second best is shine wins and everyone nerd rages
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Winter Champion…
12:00
Playoffs
herO vs Clem
MaxPax vs Cure
WardiTV1405
TKL 349
IndyStarCraft 261
EnkiAlexander 56
IntoTheiNu 16
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko435
TKL 349
IndyStarCraft 261
Rex 131
LamboSC2 26
Vindicta 13
EmSc Tv 6
BRAT_OK 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26389
Sea 17292
firebathero 651
[sc1f]eonzerg 42
NaDa 33
Rock 30
Dota 2
Gorgc6167
qojqva254
monkeys_forever186
Counter-Strike
fl0m2371
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King64
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor373
Liquid`Hasu93
Trikslyr21
Other Games
B2W.Neo990
singsing943
DeMusliM232
Mlord230
Fuzer 144
KnowMe103
QueenE63
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream10787
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2086
Other Games
BasetradeTV60
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 6
EmSc2Tv 6
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 42
• iHatsuTV 18
• Adnapsc2 6
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 26
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis8747
• Jankos2061
• TFBlade871
• Stunt547
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
3h 55m
Patches Events
6h 55m
Replay Cast
7h 55m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
17h 55m
RSL Revival
17h 55m
Classic vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Cham
WardiTV Winter Champion…
19h 55m
OSC
20h 25m
BSL
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-05
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.