• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:03
CEST 22:03
KST 05:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities Firefly do had match fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22235 users

(Spoilers)Thoughts on MSL r16 and OSL r8

Blogs > yoden
Post a Reply
yoden
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States64 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-28 21:04:52
December 28 2009 20:59 GMT
#1
I *could* have just posted this in the r16 day 4 thread, but it's really long and I'm narcissistic.

I think there are a couple of overarching themes:

1) Guardians are bad. Seriously. There were some four odd TvZs with guards, and the only win was (Z)Kwanro vs (T)Bogus. And that game was... just bizarre, and I blame the outcome entirely on (T)Bogus (your 2 vs 4 base all-in failed? you just let two islands happily mine away?).

2) (T)Flash's TvZ is *good.* Actually, it's not even fair. How do you counter his 1 rax into FE? We did see it go down to (Z)ZerO in set 2, but that seemed like a combination of luck, map, and scvs bugging out than an actual response . Still, (T)Flash is looking like (Z)Jaedong from this summer, in the r4 of OSL and r8 of MSL. Honestly, I think he's got a great chance to win the OSL ((Z)Calm's just not on the same level... no one is . So that begs the question... can he win both while playing in proleague? Or will he crack under the pressure of so many games?

3) The race distribution is much better this season. In OSL, we've got 1P 1T 2Z, MSL is 3P 3T 2Z...

4) A lot of big names are missing. Does anyone really think the other players in the OSL are as good as (T)Flash? I guess all I can hope for is a (T)Flash vs (P)Movie cheese-fest finals. The power rank and the players in the 1v1 tourneys... don't agree well. I think a lot of the top players are concentrating on proleague to the detriment of their 1v1 performances. (T)Flash of course, is just in a league of his own.

5) (P)BeSt vs (T)Canata was a great series. Nukes, recalls, carriers, taking the opponent's main as a base, having had every expansion taken at least once despite the fact there are only 4 some bases for each player alive at the end...

6) Odd-Eye and Ultimatum are very fun. I think it is partly that they haven't been analyzed to death like the proleague maps. Odd-Eye especially has a weird late game... I don't think the players quite know where to expand to, which leads to awesome back and forth games.

Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16971 Posts
December 28 2009 21:26 GMT
#2
Interestingly, I think it was Idra who said that Guardian builds are actually really effective in practice.
Moderator
So no fek
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3001 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-28 21:28:05
December 28 2009 21:27 GMT
#3
Yeah, (T)Flash is an absolute monster. I'm hoping he pulls in at least one title, though I wouldn't be surprised if he took both. Personally, though unlikely, I'm hoping (P)Movie will take the OSL.


I've only watched one game of (P)BeSt vs (T)Canata, and I have mixed feelings on it. Overall, I thought it was a fun game, but it just drew on too long. If it had ended 10-15 minutes sooner, it easily would have been one of my favorite games ever, but it didn't, so it was only enjoyable.
#1 Shuttle fan - TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #36 BW4lyfe
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
December 28 2009 21:28 GMT
#4
Keep in mind that the power rank is nothing more than one person's view of who the best players in progaming are at the moment and is just one person's opinion (albeit a well-informed person). Also, it was from a month ago, doubtless movie will make this month's power rank, despite a small hiccup against jaedong in proleague.
Sullifam
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
December 28 2009 21:46 GMT
#5
On December 29 2009 06:26 Empyrean wrote:
Interestingly, I think it was Idra who said that Guardian builds are actually really effective in practice.


Of course they are. Why would anyone use a build that isn't effective.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 28 2009 22:50 GMT
#6
Movie vs Calm would be the only evenly matched OSL finals, the problem is that Calm can't beat Flash to make it happen.
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
December 29 2009 00:45 GMT
#7
On December 29 2009 07:50 jalstar wrote:
Movie vs Calm would be the only evenly matched OSL finals, the problem is that Calm can't beat Flash to make it happen.


You know, I want to see Shine beat movie then Flash to win just for the absolute chaos it would create and the amount of bans that would result as fans go nuts with rage. It would be a very interesting thing to read on TL. I personally hold no disposition for any of the players left in the OSL, I will be unaffected by the rage virus.

For MSL, Best vs. Flash is gonna be sick, 2 macro masters fighting it out. I think Jaedong's best chance to win is if Best takes out Flash. While everyone is focused on movie as the next big protoss, I think everyone is missing out on Stats. Dude got solid PvZ and PvP. Since he is a protoss on the same team as Flash, I'll assume he also has good PvT as well. But he might not go 100% vs. JD as he might lack confidence.

I cannot see Kal losing to Hwasin and I can see Light losing to Kwanro, not very likely though. Light has shown to be very good at winning against hyper aggressive zerg attacks (see by.hero).
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-29 07:25:46
December 29 2009 06:57 GMT
#8
On December 29 2009 09:45 lone_hydra wrote:

You know, I want to see Shine beat movie then Flash to win just for the absolute chaos it would create and the amount of bans that would result as fans go nuts with rage. It would be a very interesting thing to read on TL. I personally hold no disposition for any of the players left in the OSL, I will be unaffected by the rage virus.



I personally agree but there's no way that's going to happen.

actually no.

best case scenario is movie wins the osl and a cj player gets some individual league glory for the first time in i don't know how long.

second best is shine wins and everyone nerd rages
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 113
EnDerr 56
MindelVK 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 580
firebathero 141
Dewaltoss 97
yabsab 18
Movie 10
Counter-Strike
fl0m6288
olofmeister2324
rGuardiaN116
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King67
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu684
Other Games
tarik_tv54050
gofns22412
summit1g7254
Grubby921
Beastyqt790
ceh9510
B2W.Neo490
mouzStarbuck401
Pyrionflax185
ZombieGrub96
Trikslyr61
QueenE60
BRAT_OK 29
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream4421
Other Games
BasetradeTV94
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 23 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 327
• Adnapsc2 38
• Hupsaiya 10
• Reevou 6
• musti20045 5
• Dystopia_ 2
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki21
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21599
• Ler147
League of Legends
• TFBlade1299
Other Games
• imaqtpie1547
• Scarra753
• Shiphtur370
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 57m
Replay Cast
13h 57m
WardiTV Invitational
14h 57m
WardiTV Invitational
14h 57m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 3h
GSL Code S
1d 13h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.