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On December 21 2009 01:18 PanoRaMa wrote: What headphone would you recommend (anything up to $500 or so), as a standalone (no noticeable need for an amp or anything like that)? Earphones? (with priorities being sound quality, sound cancellation, comfort, i.e. I hate the ones that are just bulky and weird like some bang and olufsen ones).
I have the Head-Direct RE0 ($79 at head-direct) and they're freakin' great. Some head-fiers think it's better than Shure's SE530 and E500, but I don't really know anything about those IEMs. Still, the RE0 is a steal with great, great sound for that price.
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Thanks again everyone  Sooo much info in this thread, haha
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Hearing is trainable
Not in the way you are thinking of.
Long story short, "hearing training" has to do more with the integration and processing of sound (from one or more sources) at a neural level than what is being stated. What is being suggested falls in line with behavioral stuff more than hearing.
This thread has the nocebo effect all over it, props for doing research Chef on a often misunderstood topic but don't let it blind you.
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On December 19 2009 12:48 Straylight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2009 12:20 Xeofreestyler wrote:On December 19 2009 12:14 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On December 19 2009 12:01 Chef wrote:
there is no art form that is inherently bad
That's simply not true. Can you prove your statement? Of course he can't. But he's right.
New Age Music
I can't prove it, cause that would imply that I know ALL new age music. But, show me your best new age music LOL.
Oh, also on topic I think that besides the ear, your body feels the music too. That's why I never can fully appriciate music just trough headphones. I need to feel it in my tummy (with which I don't mean obnoxious basses)
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The best was when he said different kinds of plating on the connector can make your battery last longer and change the sound. Funny article, bro.
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On December 19 2009 12:01 Chef wrote:MusicIt... It... Just makes me want to... Get up and dance like a retard!!!!
You dance like a retard on Chopin 1st piano Concerto? Ouch.
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On December 21 2009 11:23 Chef wrote:
Anyway... All I wanted to say with my audio equipment section is don't spend money unless you've got a good reason to. My information about DACs comes from audio E.E.'s I've talked to and trust (ie, not people on the internet). I might be wrong, but again... The point is assume it's worthless until you've seen proof. I'm just saying I didn't find any, and anyone who tells me now better have the facts I've been looking for.
I did a double blind test between M-Audio Delta66, RME Fireface and RME Fireface + a Lavry Blue DAC with a few friends of mine (two audio engineers and a techno musician). All said that the Delta66 was terrible, and thought that the Lavry setup was the most detailed. We used Dynaudio BM15As in a studio environment for the test. This is NOT the average home, and everything was top-notch, without which I doubt the difference would be noticed.
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If you are interested in the theme of that Spiritual Machines album, you should check out the works of Paul Virilio.
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On December 23 2009 01:09 TimmyMac wrote:
The best was when he said different kinds of plating on the connector can make your battery last longer and change the sound. Funny article, bro.
I said silver and gold have different conductivities, which is absolutely true. The only thing it will change is the amplitude of your sound given the same power, which is also absolutely true.
And there's nothing wrong with dancing like a retard to Chopin 1st piano Concerto  Maybe you're picturing club dancing in your head, but imagine yourself wandering and spinning around like a 1950s musical to music.
On December 23 2009 03:58 Kazius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 11:23 Chef wrote:
Anyway... All I wanted to say with my audio equipment section is don't spend money unless you've got a good reason to. My information about DACs comes from audio E.E.'s I've talked to and trust (ie, not people on the internet). I might be wrong, but again... The point is assume it's worthless until you've seen proof. I'm just saying I didn't find any, and anyone who tells me now better have the facts I've been looking for.
I did a double blind test between M-Audio Delta66, RME Fireface and RME Fireface + a Lavry Blue DAC with a few friends of mine (two audio engineers and a techno musician). All said that the Delta66 was terrible, and thought that the Lavry setup was the most detailed. We used Dynaudio BM15As in a studio environment for the test. This is NOT the average home, and everything was top-notch, without which I doubt the difference would be noticed.
That's very cool :D I hope you spend the time to put the details in writing, because I'd very much like to read it if you don't mind. Don't keep your studies a secret!! 
Oh, also on topic I think that besides the ear, your body feels the music too. That's why I never can fully appreciate music just trough headphones. I need to feel it in my tummy (with which I don't mean obnoxious basses)
You're absolutely correct. Headphones will never achieve perfect reproduction of a live experience because of that fatal flaw. An insane speaker set up would be needed for that, and I can offer no advice but to check out theaudiocritic if you're interested.
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On December 23 2009 05:31 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2009 01:09 TimmyMac wrote:
The best was when he said different kinds of plating on the connector can make your battery last longer and change the sound. Funny article, bro. I said silver and gold have different conductivities, which is absolutely true. The only thing it will change is the amplitude of your sound given the same power, which is also absolutely true.
Over the few microns that connectors are plated with? Please. Unbelievable that you argue for 6 pages about how an amplifier in no way affects sound (which is false) but make a post about connector plating. And if it's affecting your battery life noticeably, I can guarantee it sounds absolutely horrible.
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I think it's pretty consistent, actually, given how much electricity you're wasting using a dedicated amplifier (probably class A) if you're wrong.
Anyway, you're probably right, the difference is negligible in low voltage applications. I only mention it because that is literally why they don't make them all gold.
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The difference is negligible in pretty much all applications. Gold is used where you want things not to corrode, and silver/iridium/rhodium/whatever is used where you want to advertise high conductivity to audio-idiots. Plain silvery-looking connectors on your average ibuds are chrome-plated.
I hardly consider myself to be wasting electricity with my amp. 100% of it goes to heat, and I heat my home with electricity anyway. Consider it taking a little load off your furnace, eh? Besides, my computer only draws 25W or so, might as well squander the rest somewhere.
Really though, there's no question that there is a difference between an ipod and a nice headphone amplifier. The differences are real and measurable, not just subjective.
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E Sures brand, are really really good, and over all are pretty moderately priced.
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On December 23 2009 03:12 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2009 12:01 Chef wrote:MusicIt... It... Just makes me want to... Get up and dance like a retard!!!! You dance like a retard on Chopin 1st piano Concerto? Ouch.
LOL
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On December 23 2009 05:31 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2009 03:58 Kazius wrote:On December 21 2009 11:23 Chef wrote:
Anyway... All I wanted to say with my audio equipment section is don't spend money unless you've got a good reason to. My information about DACs comes from audio E.E.'s I've talked to and trust (ie, not people on the internet). I might be wrong, but again... The point is assume it's worthless until you've seen proof. I'm just saying I didn't find any, and anyone who tells me now better have the facts I've been looking for.
I did a double blind test between M-Audio Delta66, RME Fireface and RME Fireface + a Lavry Blue DAC with a few friends of mine (two audio engineers and a techno musician). All said that the Delta66 was terrible, and thought that the Lavry setup was the most detailed. We used Dynaudio BM15As in a studio environment for the test. This is NOT the average home, and everything was top-notch, without which I doubt the difference would be noticed. That's very cool :D I hope you spend the time to put the details in writing, because I'd very much like to read it if you don't mind. Don't keep your studies a secret!!
It's no secret - it's just that I make music at my home studio, and noticed that somehow the sound got a bit tighter in my mixes the moment I switched to an external DAC. I didn't notice a massive improvement or anything like that. But I had results proving that the smaller details of my sound were more accurate with less work. Hence, I took a friend (the techno musician), knowing he disbelieved DACs being of any influence, and two guys we both trusted as audio freaks, and made a bet of it. I made $100. I will not send you the bill as proof 
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Hmm... I was hoping for something more along the lines of documentation, not an anecdote T.T Otherwise it's impossible to reproduce your experiment.
EDIT:
It bothers me a bit, so I went looking again, and asked a question directly. Again, people who claim Amps will somehow make your music sound better are making completely unsupported statements. They will argue with you for many pages (see this thread) essentially call you an idiot, but they will never actually put forth a proper experiment. Yeah, a really badly built/broken amp will sound bad, but it won't be tolerable at all if it's bad. You'll know there's annoying feedback or cutoff where there shouldn't be. Any decent amp (including the one in your iPod) will sound just as good as any other amp. You music will not sound more vibrant or better or whatever crap people like to spew.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=77466
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=77416
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EPT![[image loading]](http://minuet.dance.ohio-state.edu/~lerose5/Images/Words/Rhythm/Music_Circle.jpg)
