Few big things in the works. I know I promised that a month ago, but, unfortunately, life catches you up sometimes when you least expect it; However much you wish it hadn't.
Anyway, finished one final edit style thing already. Hoping you'll all enjoy that when it arrives. Few more coming too. Just waiting on some things before it's published. In the mean time, i'd like to offer the following little article.
One condition here. If I so much as think somebody is about to launch into a discussion of her looks, or, god forbid, talk about how Chinese woman are better looking... you’ll be banned from this blog. Sorry to take that stance, just not interested in either the discussion nor getting this thread closed.
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5 reasons I cheer for Tossgirl (and so should you!) By Alethios
Personally, I’m a fan of the slightly wistful look
Number 5:
She’s hot. Teamliquid’s underbelly seems divided on this one. I don’t much care. I got the opinion of two former partners, they say she’s alright. Most fans support her for just this reason. Fair enough I suppose.
Number 4:
Supporting her makes us feel less like nerds. Look! A Woman! See! See!
Number 3:
Her games can sometimes be quite a pleasure to watch. Sure she doesn’t play at the highest level, but neither does anybody in the TSL (sorry ret, idra; not yet at least).
Number 2:
She’s plucky. Say what you like about her skills, she’s got a lot of guts. Seo Ji Soo gets regularly beaten into the ground, but doesn’t let it phase her. She’s got her goals, she might never achieve them… but she keeps trying, because it’s what she wants to do. You’ve got to respect anybody with that attitude.
Don't believe what you hear - don't believe what you see If you just close your eyes you can feel the enemy When I first met you, girl, you had fire in your soul What happened? your face of melting snow Now it looks like this
And you can swallow, or you can spit You can throw it up, or choke on it And you can dream - so dream out loud You know that your time is coming round So don't let the bastards grind you down
Number 1:
Here is the real point I want to make. She has the capability to be a real role model. If she ever truly achieves this, it will be a greater victory than winning an OSL. The implications for starcraft and progaming in general would be immense.
Many sports don’t have women playing at the highest level. Commonly, this is because women aren’t as strong as men, and are thus at a disadvantage. This still leaves some sports that are male dominated, despite having nothing to do with strength (starcraft being a case in point). Sometimes however, the situation is reversed. Netball, a very popular sport in some countries, has no men playing at the highest level.
I’m going to leave aside the invisible hand of sexism, hindering women’s careers in various sports, because it is symptomatic of society as a whole and beyond the scope of this article. With that caveat, why do women often not excel at many sports? We’ve already seen that in some sports women do better than men, so it can’t be that men are simply better. It seems fairly obvious to me that the problem is with role models. When people are young and fail to see role models, they almost invariably chose to do something else. Hence, due to the lack of any female role models in starcraft, and progaming in general, we have far fewer females than males playing.
It stands to reason that the fewer females you have playing, the fewer talented players there will be. If Tossgirl truly succeeded, creating wide interest in starcraft amongst women, we’d have much more talent playing at the top level. I see no reason for women to be inherently worse at starcraft than men so I see no reason why there wouldn’t suddenly be twice as much talent as previously. With so much more talent the level of competition would be skyrocket. The only winners of a better competition? That would be us, the spectators.
Realistically, Tossgirl doesn’t have all that much chance of achieving this colossal goal. I recognise that. I also recognise than even if she does achieve it, she won’t be the one winning an MSL in 2015. At the same time, Nal_rA didn’t have much chance of winning GomTV MSL Season 4, yet we all cheered for him, because it would have been awesome. In the same way, I see nothing greater for starcraft than Tossgirl succeeding.
That’s why you should root for her. If she succeeds, starcraft 2 will be twice the game it would be without her.
Seo Ji Soo fighting!
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Full credit to U2 for singing the song 'Acrobat' about her.
She looks so different in each pic o_o. The first one she looks young and cute, the second one she looks like an old woman with hooker face. Shows the power of wearing good clothes, I guess. lol
I haven't really watched many of her games so I'm not really a fan.
She looks so different in each pic o_o. The first one she looks young and cute, the second one she looks like an old woman with hooker face. Shows the power of wearing good clothes, I guess. lol
I haven't really watched many of her games so I'm not really a fan.
If you were to try and become a fan on game value then don't, it's a waste of time.
Hah... I don't think anyone else in esports is so much flash and so little bang. I appreciate her talent and her feminine presence in a male dominated world, but regardless of her wiles, she is at heart a rather uninteresting player. I like her for what she represents, but I couldn't really respect her skill level as a player.
She is quite a bad player, which you see when you watch any of her televised games. However, this does not mean that she sucks in general because she cannot practice as much as the other guys do. It is the representative function that she has preventing her from ever truly making an impact gaming wise. Sad but true.
I don't understand. There are people out there who don't root for Tossgirl? At the very least you would think she would get some support for being the underdog.
I've been playing for 8 months now and thats just about 4 games or less a day. And I have soon reached B-. Give me 5 more months and I will get better then tossgirl.
I would just like to point out that most sports don't have women competing at the highest levels because women are, collectively, less competitively driven than men are.
Studies have suggested that competitive behaviour is linked to high levels of testosterone, that is not to say that a woman couldn't compete at levels equal to or above men if they were equally as aggressive and motivated, hell; just look at professional tennis.
I think either many of you are either missing the point... or really like bashing tossgirl. I know she's not a very good player. If I simply looked at unnamed replays of her playing, I doubt i'd think much of her. Whats more, I don't think she personally has the potential to be a top level player. I just want her to inspire other women, so they'll pick up the game. I can't help but feel there must be some woman out there who has the potential to rival Jaedong.
On December 16 2009 21:51 SplashbackFerret wrote: I would just like to point out that most sports don't have women competing at the highest levels because women are, collectively, less competitively driven than men are.
Studies have suggested that competitive behaviour is linked to high levels of testosterone, that is not to say that a woman couldn't compete at levels equal to or above men if they were equally as aggressive and motivated, hell; just look at professional tennis.
Completely fair point. Obviously there are other factors at play aside from the lack of role models.
The only problem is that women cannot compete in starcraft because they are bad. I suppose it's some fundamental difference between genders but women will never be top players.
The major issue with women in StarCraft, just like with women in Chess, is probably the participation-rate problem. There are simply many more men around, and men averagely practice more.
In Chess, Susan Polgar has been an available rolemodel for decades now. She reached an ELO-rating top10 multiple times. However, women aren't performing any better than they were decades ago. If you look at research available where the participation rate is similar [in chess], or even in the advantage of women, they perform evenly, or in the case of an advantage, outperform men.
how can anyone not cheer and respect what tossgirl does? shes definetly not the best at starcraft, but shes the best female gamer EVER. as in, EVER. she had no competition amongst women. and even against men, THE MANLIEST OF THEM ALL STILL LOSE TO HER (Reach vs TossGirl in Heritage mother fuckers).
On December 17 2009 00:22 Garnet wrote: But she said she's an introvert. I REALLY doubt she wants to be a role model or even think about it.
really...so you think it is fun for her to be playing 10+ hours a day, being on the b-team for years, never playing a proleague match, never making it to an individual league, all while probably not being paid all that much? starcraft is what she loves to do but if she wasnt trying to prove something to herself, her parents, her fans, and the rest of the world, you can be certain she would have retired by now. she knows her limits better than anyone else yet she's still trying. guess why? because she is the only female player in a professional team of the entire sport. if you think about it, thats an even bigger achievement than a foreigner being on a professional team, simply because there are 2 right now. but only ONE TOSS GIRL YO
ugh and omg let me just say something else...lol i know theres a bunch of chauvinistic and selfish men on this forum, to not be too degrading, but jesus. as a woman.....do you have any clue of what shes sacrifcing for this sport???? these are her youth years, and shes spending them behind a computer. not because she is hiding. not because she is ugly. but because its her dream. if you cant respect that, i expect you to be a publix bag-boy for the rest of your life.
On December 17 2009 01:07 Beyonder wrote: The major issue with women in StarCraft, just like with women in Chess, is probably the participation-rate problem. There are simply many more men around, and men averagely practice more.
In Chess, Susan Polgar has been an available rolemodel for decades now. She reached an ELO-rating top10 multiple times. However, women aren't performing any better than they were decades ago. If you look at research available where the participation rate is similar [in chess], or even in the advantage of women, they perform evenly, or in the case of an advantage, outperform men.
I think that's his point. It's kind of circular though. There aren't many women playing SC because there aren't enough professional women playing SC because there aren't enough women playing SC because there aren't enough professional women playing SC.
A single role model didn't solve the solution back then, and it isn't solving it now. TossGirl is treated like a novelty, because she is. She isn't idealised by women, just drooled over by boys thinking 'omg a girl actually plays SC all day.'
Susan Polgar is a bit different though. She's more like a idol for old wives like my mum who play chess on the internet but are never going to devote their life to it.
On December 17 2009 01:58 UGC4 wrote: ugh and omg let me just say something else...lol i know theres a bunch of chauvinistic and selfish men on this forum, to not be too degrading, but jesus. as a woman.....do you have any clue of what shes sacrifcing for this sport???? these are her youth years, and shes spending them behind a computer. not because she is hiding. not because she is ugly. but because its her dream. if you cant respect that, i expect you to be a publix bag-boy for the rest of your life.
She's likely the kind of person that finds her niche and stays there. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not something particularly amazing.
On December 17 2009 01:58 UGC4 wrote: ugh and omg let me just say something else...lol i know theres a bunch of chauvinistic and selfish men on this forum, to not be too degrading, but jesus. as a woman.....do you have any clue of what shes sacrifcing for this sport???? these are her youth years, and shes spending them behind a computer. not because she is hiding. not because she is ugly. but because its her dream. if you cant respect that, i expect you to be a publix bag-boy for the rest of your life.
Because... the male pro players aren't spending their youth years behind a computer?
she should just switch back to protoss. Maybe she will have better achievements.
She said she went T because she had trouble PvZ, but today PvZ is no longer "imba". I guess Bisu brought a new perspective into the match up and seems pretty even, now.
I usually cheer for her, because I like the underdogs. Unless she is playing one of my fav players like BoXer, NaDa, Yell0w, Reach, etc... dunno.
On December 16 2009 21:11 Alethios wrote: One condition here. If I so much as think somebody is about to launch into a discussion of her looks, or, god forbid, talk about how Chinese woman are better looking... you’ll be banned from this blog.
Personally, I’m a fan of the slightly wistful look Number 5: She’s hot.
"Olympic and International Skeet is one of the ISSF shooting events. It has had Olympic status since 1968, and, until 1992, was open to both sexes. After that year, all ISSF events have been open to only one sex, and so females were disallowed to compete in the Olympic Skeet competitions. This was somewhat controversial because the 1992 Olympic Champion was a woman, Zhang Shan of China. However, women had their own World Championships, and in 2000, a female Skeet event was introduced to the Olympic program." -wikipedia
I actually dislike her and the way she allows herself/is marketed (maybe it shows.)
Actually your #1 reason is because nevergg doesn't like her parading around in mini-skirts. And that she's reported to be introverted, which translates to bitchy?
But yes, nice blog. I fully support TossGirL and what she believes in. I think BoxeR should have taken TossGirL to the Melon Music Awards instead of Bisu, you know, even if they're not a real couple or anything, because that'd give the people such a different impression for the e-sports in general.
This makes me think of the futurama episode with Leela as the first women blurnsball player. It's like well she's... kinda inspirational... sorta... but not really.
On December 17 2009 06:36 Luddite wrote: This makes me think of the futurama episode with Leela as the first women blurnsball player. It's like well she's... kinda inspirational... sorta... but not really.
On December 16 2009 22:48 ilovekellymore wrote: Hey everyone, I've visited here a few times but reading this I would make an account. I thought this was great, it even somewhat inspired me...
Oh wow. When I linked you to my article, I didn't even expect you to read it to be perfectly honest. Glad you liked it! Very gratifying, you should get other women on board too!
On December 17 2009 02:33 QuickStriker wrote: Aw, darn, you beat me to it for my 5 reasons I was preparing for Tossgirl... But good job! 5/5!
Ah sorry mate. Cheers for the positive feedback though
On December 16 2009 21:11 Alethios wrote: One condition here. If I so much as think somebody is about to launch into a discussion of her looks, or, god forbid, talk about how Chinese woman are better looking... you’ll be banned from this blog.
Personally, I’m a fan of the slightly wistful look Number 5: She’s hot.
On December 16 2009 21:11 Alethios wrote: Number 4:
Supporting her makes us feel less like nerds. Look! A Woman! See! See!
Nope, just the opposite. Cheering for a woman just because of her sex makes you look like a sex-starved, drooling nerd
Yeah, I wasn't really being serious with the first 2 reasons. They're terrible reasons to support anybody, as i've said.
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Friend of mine read my post then remarked that she does what she does not because she wants to be like somebody, but because it's what she wants to do.
I never meant to imply that I want Tossgirl to get so good that other women want to be like her. Firstly, as i've said, she's just not that talented. Secondly, all i'm after is for her to become somebody that women can look at and think "well she's doing it, why can't I?"
Sadly in person she is a stuck up bitch. Jongmi is so, so much nicer than her. All she's ever done when she's seen me at events is look down her nose at me. I wouldn't support her if you paid me to.
On December 16 2009 21:43 Kare wrote: I've been playing for 8 months now and thats just about 4 games or less a day. And I have soon reached B-. Give me 5 more months and I will get better then tossgirl.
Oh really, B- is not that good and rather a shitty rank from a larger scale, so shut the fuck up.
On December 17 2009 12:01 NeverGG wrote: Sadly in person she is a stuck up bitch. Jongmi is so, so much nicer than her. All she's ever done when she's seen me at events is look down her nose at me. I wouldn't support her if you paid me to.
Thats disappointing, she's probably just bitter that she hasn't accomplished anything of consequence. Have you ever done a photo-shoot with her Never?
On December 16 2009 21:43 Kare wrote: I've been playing for 8 months now and thats just about 4 games or less a day. And I have soon reached B-. Give me 5 more months and I will get better then tossgirl.
Oh really, B- is not that good and rather a shitty rank from a larger scale, so shut the fuck up.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say she's not effective as a role model. From one interview she doesn't even seen to be aware of the gender problem. Reason #2's probably the best reason for anyone to cheer for her.
January is a much MUCH better role model for women - no makeup, keeps it plain, but effective and has authority, and doesn't take shit or even snarky comments from other head coaches who are all male.
On December 17 2009 12:01 NeverGG wrote: Sadly in person she is a stuck up bitch. Jongmi is so, so much nicer than her. All she's ever done when she's seen me at events is look down her nose at me. I wouldn't support her if you paid me to.
haha yeah she could be one of those. the standard for being thin in Asia's just ridiculous to me, male and female, and I was born there. being pampered means she probably has no idea what to say to you, just doesn't have that social skill cus she ain't got to "figure it all out"
On December 17 2009 12:01 NeverGG wrote: Sadly in person she is a stuck up bitch. Jongmi is so, so much nicer than her. All she's ever done when she's seen me at events is look down her nose at me. I wouldn't support her if you paid me to.
Thats disappointing, she's probably just bitter that she hasn't accomplished anything of consequence. Have you ever done a photo-shoot with her Never?
She never comes to proleague so nope. I'd rather prioritise people who aren't so stuck up their own arses. If she was nicer I'd have leapt at the chance to photograph her. I hardly ever get to shoot women ;_; The big game shows are like heaven for me because it makes such a change from the routine of boys, boys and more boys.
On December 17 2009 12:01 NeverGG wrote: Sadly in person she is a stuck up bitch. Jongmi is so, so much nicer than her. All she's ever done when she's seen me at events is look down her nose at me. I wouldn't support her if you paid me to.
On December 17 2009 12:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: She's probably a bitch because she can't get over the fact that Hwasin is prettier than her and on the same team.
I bet all the boys hit on Hwasin when he puts on a little rouge and ignore her which just makes her tilt hard
On December 17 2009 12:01 NeverGG wrote: Sadly in person she is a stuck up bitch. Jongmi is so, so much nicer than her. All she's ever done when she's seen me at events is look down her nose at me. I wouldn't support her if you paid me to.
unfortunately jongmi is crap and laughs at herself DURING games because she thinks its silly to play as a girl. tossgirl actually has respect for wht she does. maybe she cant be a spaz like jongmi because shes actually trying to taken seriously
I don't really like tossgirl at all. Seems like quite the stuck up snob in RL and doesn't seem to be very friendly overall... I mean if your gonna try to cut it with the big boys at least try to be likeable because results aren't gonna be there.
EPT![[image loading]](http://news.replays.net/Uploads/photo/20090806/200908061028226464.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs218.snc1/8524_842779605759_842572_48552616_1192825_n.jpg)
5/5
![[image loading]](http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt161/discwalls/tg12.jpg)
