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Croatia5282 Posts
A thread called "Too much ZvZ in proleague!!" from a few days ago got me the idea that observing the amount of mirrors played on a certain map can be a nice indicator of the map balance.
Now, I'm basing this on the assumption that pro teams send their players out without knowing what the other team sends. Basically like throwing 2 pokemon balls at the same time.(I have no idea if this is true, or if there's a more complicated system)
So, instead of relying on statistics which could say:
- on this map, protoss has won 5 PvTs, and lost 2
I think a better way to look at it would be this way:
- In proleague, 1 TvT was played, 6 ZvZs, and 3 PvPs
I'm including only Proleague, because it's the only competition you get games without having to actually win any official matches beforehand.
So, in the case of 6 ZvZs, 3 PvPs and 1 TvT, it would be logical to conclude that terran is weak on this map.
Why do I say it's weak?
Because the coaching staff of pro teams decided that it's not wise to send terrans out on that map.
A better indicator would be to add up all the terran games, but that would require basic math, which I don't want to do.
Now I'd like to see some specific examples.
I watch games casually so I don't know which map is considered imbalanced.
So, if there are some maps that the community agrees clearly favors one race, please post it so we can test it out.
--
(p.s. somehow I think I'm pretty bad at forming my ideas into nice looking threads. I just want to post it but I don't care enough to actually try hard. eh.....)
Anyway, here are some map stats:
Battle Royal: ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png) 0 | ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png) 37 | ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png) 0 -> Zerg fest
Raid Assault 2: 1 | 27 | 0 -> Zerg fest
hi hi hi
Let's see statistics of some notable maps:
Python: 57 | 16 | 10 -> Terran map?
Outsider: 19 | 31 | 4 -> sucks for Protoss, best for Zerg
Destination: 71 | 50 | 47 -> balanced, considering that there are most terran players in general
Tau Cross: 26 | 23 | 14 -> pretty good
Monty Hall: 23 | 4 | 27 -> tough for Zerg
Monty Hall SE: 23 | 1 | 6 - Zerg still sucks, protoss sucks more than in first edition
 
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Yeah I also think it would be nice if someone else did all the hard work so I didn't have to.
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konadora
Singapore66358 Posts
few maps come into mind
battle royal
dmz
raid assault
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United States2822 Posts
Real men play Pokemon Set.
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Croatia5282 Posts
Battle Royal:
0 TvT | 37 ZvZ | 0 PvP
Raid Assault 2:
1 TvT | 27 ZvZ | 0 PvP
hi hi hi
Let's see statistics of some notable maps:
Python:
57 TvT | 16 ZvZ | 10 PvP
Outsider:
19 TvT | 31 ZvZ | 4 PvP
Destination:
71 TvT | 50 ZvZ | 47 PvP (balanced, considering that there are most terran players in general)
Tau Cross:
26 TvT | 23 ZvZ | 14 PvP
Monty Hall:
23 TvT | 4 ZvZ | 27 PvP
Monty Hall SE:
23 TvT | 1 ZvZ | 6 PvP (Zerg still sucks, protoss sucks more than in first edition)
Including this to OP.
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i would like to see a pvp in battle royal
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Python? Terran map? I thought Protoss had it easy PvT in that map o,o
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I like the idea but it seems you should somehow control for the number of S level players for each race. Some teams just don't have any decent P in the lineup, right?
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On November 03 2009 23:55 EsX_Raptor wrote:
Python? Terran map? I thought Protoss had it easy PvT in that map o,o
Unless you got cross positions, playing pvt is really hard on python.
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This is my favorite method, but its not foolproof. For example, Outsider during the WCG was completely balanced, and I predict Outsider SE to have similar results (with it perhaps even becoming a Protoss map).
Whats interesting though is the number of PvPs played on Heartbreak Ridge. Most people acknowledge that Zerg kills Toss usually on that map, and yet teams still regularly send their tosses out on it. Of course, when the map first came out, Zerg couldnt beat Toss...so maybe they are trying to reclaim the map. Or perhaps they do really well in practice and then get outplayed in the matches? I mean, they should know by now that they arent going to get matched up against a Terran, ever.
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United States2186 Posts
Seems nice but it only holds true partially. Sometimes players get sent out just because they have to (i,e khan will send out in form stork/jangbi regardless of maps). Other times teams don't understand the balance quite well at first. I,e look at HBR last season and look at it now. Tons of Terrans sent out before, almost none now. This is a combination of last season's maps being atrocious for Terran whereas now they have a few to work with and people not understanding just how awful it was for Terran.
A few notable exceptions that come to mind of mirror imbalance but not matchup imbalance:
Python (Not an amazing T map)
Wuthering Heights (Not a T map)
Outsider (P is great there)
Neo Harmony (Zerg land)
Blue Storm (Z map)
Colosseum I (T map)
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EPT
