|
So, I might be interested in applying for grad school (in chemistry or chemical physics) in the US in some distant future and I was having some questions.
For one I’ve gotten the impression that at least when applying for undergrad in the states things you do outside of your chosen field of academics count for quite a lot does this hold true for applications to grad school as well?
If it does, what kind of activities would you recommend for someone about to start his second year? During my first year I did basically nothing of the sort, well I’m a very inactive member in the science club but yea ~~.
About fees, if I chose to study for a doctorate in the US will I have to pay tuition fees etc or will the research group I’m working for take care of that?
Also, what does it take to be accepted into the “big” US universities? (Basically do I have a chance?)
Right now I’m studying at the university of Oxford in the UK which I guess is fairly prestigious and my results the first year were ok I guess. (Basically the maximum grade but not ranked that highly in the year as a whole(top ~20%))
Results the first year don’t count for anything though.
I’m also published (once so far  ) which I guess can’t hurt either.
Downside: It took me two years between finishing high school and me starting at Oxford. During this period I did essentially nothing, well went to random lectures (in chemistry/maths) at home in order to acquire some free money from the state and such but nothing really focused. (aka played games plus was with girlfriend, wasted life in short.) This could be taken as a sign of laziness maybe? It also means that when I finish here I will be quite old, 25 to be exact.
Would be thankful for any comments as well as any discussion about American research degrees in general.
|
Hey KlaCkoN,
I am going to answer the questions I know, and give some intelligent speculation for what I don't know. I am applying to graduate school in Physics this coming fall (which should be very similar to chemistry or chemical physics and to an extent biological sciences in terms of graduate school admissions and ), and I've been in school in the US since middle school (11/12 years old) so I'm not too familiar with how grad schools treat foreigners.
As for your first question: not really (thank god for that too). Not having extra curriculars and stuff matters very little. Of course, if you end up being the president of your schools chemistry club or something it can't look bad, but out of all of the factors the graduate schools consider it is by far the least important (many of the most competitive applicants have absolutely no extra curriculars but crazy research).
As for what does matter: Research! The two most important things on your application are research and recomendations, so try to nail down ~3 solid recomendations by getting to know professors (its 3 for physics, I'm assuming same for chemistry but I could be wrong). And btw, congrats on a publication, it's going to look impressive on your application.However, keep in mind that while a publication is an excellent credential, it will mean much much less if you get a mediocre rec from your research advisor. So as important as your research productivity and results is having your research professor be able to on paper tell the graduate schools that you can do research well and you will survive graduate school life.
And of secondary importance are of course your grades. I don't know about the British grading scale, but for competitiveness in the top US graduate schools (Stanford, Caltech etc.) you need around a 3.80 to be considered competitive (that is 1/3 A's and 2/3 A-'s approximately). But for most graduate schools you definitely need at least a 3.3 (B+) to be competitive.Of course, the nice thing is that for a lot of the good graduate schools if you have a low GPA but really good recommendations and research experience, they will overlook the bad for the good. Of almost equal importance in physics are your GRE scores, both the general (math/english) and your subject test (i.e. Chemistry GRE). In physics, most graduate schools have some sort of 'cutoff', and if you score under that cutoff your application is going to have a much tougher time. The most important score by far is your subject score, and second most important is English, last is math(weird right?) However this order may be different for Chemistry, as I know in biology they don't require the GRE subject test at all. You should ask around to find this out.
Let me summarize with a commonly used adage: research experience and recommendations can get you in, GPA and GRE scores can keep you out. What this means is that having a perfect GPA won't help you significantly more than a reasonably high GPA; as long as you're above a schools threshold, they don't pay too much attention to the differences. Same applies to your GRE scores. Once you meet a schools GPA and GRE requirements, you distinguish yourself with your research experience and recommendations.
And most institutions will pay you a stipend and waive tuition if you become a TA (teaching assistant). This is what most graduate students do in the States and its enough to live on (although this is true mainly for PhD students and not masters, but if your going to grad school in chemistry it would be much better to go for a PhD than a masters anyways). I know foreign students get essentially the same deal, but I think there is less funding for international students which may explain their lower acceptance rates.
Actually everything I said should be true for a foreign application too. Of course you should find out the specifics for yourself, especially regarding the importance of your chemistry GRE. Can't comment about your age cause I don't know myself what kind of impact that would have on your application (can't imagine it would be too negative an impact, if an impact at all).
Anyways, good luck
|
On September 14 2009 01:34 KlaCkoN wrote:
So, I might be interested in applying for grad school (in chemistry or chemical physics) in the US in some distant future and I was having some questions.
For one I’ve gotten the impression that at least when applying for undergrad in the states things you do outside of your chosen field of academics count for quite a lot does this hold true for applications to grad school as well?
If it does, what kind of activities would you recommend for someone about to start his second year? During my first year I did basically nothing of the sort, well I’m a very inactive member in the science club but yea ~~.
Join a lab. Research experience counts and basically nothing else. Do well on your GRE test, and get good grades.
On September 14 2009 01:34 KlaCkoN wrote:
About fees, if I chose to study for a doctorate in the US will I have to pay tuition fees etc or will the research group I’m working for take care of that?
For most PhD programs in the sciences, students receive a stipend and their tuition is covered.
Money is a fickle thing in graduate programs in the US. You, or perhaps your advisor, will have to apply for grants annually to keep you paid. That means that you must be producing consistent results during your education. It also means that if you don't get the grant, and your lab is out of funding, you don't get paid. It's not particularly dire; most labs are well funded, but joining a good university and a big name lab will make this exponentially more likely.
Grants can be deferred as well. If, say, you manage to snag a 2 year grant, you can keep applying for more money, and defer it to when your first grant runs out. I am currently funded for this year by the NIH, but I'm applying for grants now (sigh) to make sure I'll get funded next year, too.
Many high-profile, multi-year grants (dept of defence, dept of energy) are only available to US citizens. Don't let this sway your decision, though; basically every successful student in our program is non-US...
On September 14 2009 01:34 KlaCkoN wrote:Also, what does it take to be accepted into the “big” US universities? (Basically do I have a chance?) Right now I’m studying at the university of Oxford in the UK which I guess is fairly prestigious and my results the first year were ok I guess. (Basically the maximum grade but not ranked that highly in the year as a whole(top ~20%)) Results the first year don’t count for anything though. I’m also published (once so far ) which I guess can’t hurt either. Downside: It took me two years between finishing high school and me starting at Oxford. During this period I did essentially nothing, well went to random lectures (in chemistry/maths) at home in order to acquire some free money from the state and such but nothing really focused. (aka played games plus was with girlfriend, wasted life in short.) This could be taken as a sign of laziness maybe? It also means that when I finish here I will be quite old, 25 to be exact.
You're set. Oxbridge is a huge, huge plus. Don't worry about that other stuff.
Like I said, though, ace your GRE test (and any subject-GREs which some schools will make you take.) And get research experience for at least one year.
Acceptance is actually pretty high into PhD programs. It's the number of people that make it past their 2nd year or so that is low...
On September 14 2009 01:34 KlaCkoN wrote:
Would be thankful for any comments as well as any discussion about American research degrees in general.
There are some large differences between PhD programs in the US and the UK (and the rest of europe).
1) First of all, PhDs in the US are not 2.5-3 years, they are "when it's done." You finish your thesis, you can graduate. That's as little as 1 and as many as inf. The average is about 6 years in the sciences, depending on the program. When looking around, ask.
2) Grant money I've already talked about. Grants in the UK are usually 2-3 years or 1 year plus a guaranteed renewal if you're not a complete failure.
3) Your thesis is not decided ahead of time. YOU decide your thesis. You work basically as a serf for a few years until you hit upon something new, different, and unexplored. Then spend several years studying this for your thesis.
This ties in with grants above because usually in the UK you get a grant to do X for three years or what have you. In the US you pick your topic and try to get funding agencies to pay you to do it.
So...
It's easier in the UK. This is just a fact. When you're done your PhD, though, you *should* be far more qualified if you got it from a US school, basically by virtue of having twice the experience plus the fact that you had to become the world's foremost expert in your field and then contribute to it to finish.
|
Wonderful replies, many many thanks to both of you 
Took a glance at those GRE tests; the English part could prove problematic =p Guess that's something to practice for.
So in short, make sure I end up in one of the famous guys group for my fourth year for a nice letter of recomendation and more summer research? Fair enough ~~
And you guys do make the programme itself sound so hardcore heh. Both scare and exciting.
|
I'm a grad student in neuroscience... my experience is that foreign applicants have a very difficult time getting in. Most neuro programs did not have the funding for them, though my program took two (which is generally the maximum, depending on the size of the program). You have to be very very good to get in, basically. I'm not sure exactly why costs are higher for foreigners... there might be costs associated with getting in-state tuition or tuition waived, etc. This makes you more expensive for your PI, and also for the program if the program pays for you at all.
Don't worry about the english gre if you're going into the hard sciences though. You should do well enough to prove that you're smart, but otherwise eh. The math score should be 780-800 though if you want to get into the really good progams.
|
As an undergrad I wouldn't fret about getting into a famous professor's group. The important thing on the research side is to have your research advisor know you well and think highly of your skills/work/potential. If you join a famous person's group, you might end up interacting relatively more with that professor's graduate students (who aren't the ones writing your recommendation) rather than the professor.
|
On September 14 2009 05:48 talismania wrote:
I'm a grad student in neuroscience... my experience is that foreign applicants have a very difficult time getting in. Most neuro programs did not have the funding for them, though my program took two (which is generally the maximum, depending on the size of the program). You have to be very very good to get in, basically. I'm not sure exactly why costs are higher for foreigners... there might be costs associated with getting in-state tuition or tuition waived, etc. This makes you more expensive for your PI, and also for the program if the program pays for you at all.
Don't worry about the english gre if you're going into the hard sciences though. You should do well enough to prove that you're smart, but otherwise eh. The math score should be 780-800 though if you want to get into the really good progams.
If you're taken math past Algebra II and geometry, then conceptually the GRE math is easy. They don't have anything beyond those levels so as long as you don't choke on the math it's easy
Being an international student can be tough, because you're going to be coming from a much larger pool, competing against students from India, China, and all over Europe. Going to Oxford helps a lot, and so will letters of recommendation from research professors. Being published will never hurt, don't bother with extracurricular activities because no school will care. Do those because they're fun, not to pad youre resume
|
A lot of non US residents in hard sciences are in grad school here. Hell my friend right now is in graduate school for engineering and he says most are from India heh. The problem might be is that like said above there are A LOT of people internationally applying. The advice above is very sound basically in hard sciences they want to know you can do research effectively and provide results good enough for publication. Grades and GRE are to make sure you also can keep up with instruction and good letters from faculty are golden because they want to know if you will work well in that setting (no one wants to get stuck with a student or adviser whom they hate).
Bigger programs will defiantly have funding available and in general most will since hard sciences get generally more funding then other areas (like anthropology which im in T_T)
Good luck to you though! Graduate school is really exciting for me as its where you get to do a lot more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
