Some of you who have been in the SC scene for quite a while, might remember the name Storm[x-org] aka WetDream on TL (iLu.Wet).
A few years ago, during the WGTour days, the WGTour anti-cheating team proudly gave him the Hacker Most Caught award, with a total amount of 5 bans in seperate cases with multiple replays.
Around 2004, however, Storm completely disappeared from the scene, only to reappear in 2007 on cS.Wet. Again, he made a 'comeback' and started beating players seemingly way above his level. The Flag method came out soon after his reappearance, and he was found to be hacking in every replay we could find of him.
Just 3 months ago, WetDream decided to make another 'comeback'. With iCCup Antihack sealing off his opportunities to become a somewhat decent player, he only managed to get C- with around 40% win percentage on various accounts.
As we all know, iCCup antihack was breached not too long ago. Suddenly, Storm got to C+ with a bigger win percentage. Everyone knew what was going on.
It's only now though, that any specific evidence had been found.
In this replay, when he wants to move out to go for a natural bust with a 3gate goon/reaver build, he suddenly decides to send 5 goons back to his mineral line. 2 seconds later, a shuttle loaded with a reaver enters his line of sight.
WetDream has now been caught hacking a total of 7 times, and has always said to have stopped after. This is just a heads up for all you tourney organizers / clan leaders out there.
Why I posted this? Don't believe hackers who said they stopped. History has proven that the odds they haven't are just far far greater.
On August 26 2009 03:04 micronesia wrote: It's actually easier if they continue to hack... no worries here. Just ban him from your events without second guessing yourself.
Agreed, the only hacker turned strait I have ever seen was testie.
I dont even understand the point of hacking in starcraft O.o Points dont really matter, thery'e just a way of making sure people play people their own level.
On August 26 2009 03:24 Iaaan wrote: I dont even understand the point of hacking in starcraft O.o Points dont really matter, thery'e just a way of making sure people play people their own level.
On August 26 2009 03:20 DanteStyle wrote: this guy has been caught so many times its ridiculous he should suicide
what kind of statement is that? I wouldn´t ever play the guy but hey, i dont really know if im ready to wish suicide on some random guy on the other end of the web for hacking in brood war
Really funny (or sad) that he has not matured over so many years. And keeps playing the game that he sucks at an has to hack in to get any results. I have no idea what he get out of it. Played a couple of [x-org] people in 2002 or so but I dont think I've ever run in to him.
On August 26 2009 03:20 DanteStyle wrote: this guy has been caught so many times its ridiculous he should suicide
what kind of statement is that? I wouldn´t ever play the guy but hey, i dont really know if im ready to wish suicide on some random guy on the other end of the web for hacking in brood war
On August 26 2009 03:04 micronesia wrote: It's actually easier if they continue to hack... no worries here. Just ban him from your events without second guessing yourself.
Agreed, the only hacker turned strait I have ever seen was testie.
On August 26 2009 03:20 DanteStyle wrote: this guy has been caught so many times its ridiculous he should suicide
what kind of statement is that? I wouldn´t ever play the guy but hey, i dont really know if im ready to wish suicide on some random guy on the other end of the web for hacking in brood war
btw i was dead serious about the suiciding
Well, thank god you don't seem to be that overreactive kind of guy
Wow. How embarrassing is that? This dude is a fucking chump. It's so nice to see these hackers get their asses handed to them even with their 'gosu starsense'
Wow... Have people lost all respect for the game of starcraft? What happened to playing to get good, not playing to win. what happened to taking the loss like a man, what happened to honesty and integrity. I have seen more people hack this past two years than i ever have in any of my gaming life. And not just in starcraft, you cant play any games anymore without coming across a hacker anymore. It's sad, the level of integrity in games is dropping off the radar. Who is this guy anyways, is he just a notorious hacker?
On August 26 2009 05:58 Superiorwolf wrote: C+ is terrible
Would you like me to bring you a ladder?
So you can, you know, not hurt yourself getting off your high horse.
He's just stating the truth, C+ is indeed terrible. Sure, somebody at C+ level is better than probably 99% of the people that own a copy of Starcraft, but you're still terrible compared to foreign pros, nevermind Korean pros.
Of course my D/D- skill is even more terrible. >.>
On August 26 2009 05:58 Superiorwolf wrote: C+ is terrible, C+ with hacks is just despicable
thanks for the post.
Apparently B+ is terrible too tho suppy Unless you are actually good at sc now, but that seems hard for me to accept. We should play a few sometime so I can see.
On August 26 2009 05:58 Superiorwolf wrote: C+ is terrible, C+ with hacks is just despicable
thanks for the post.
can you share some replays? i remember beating your 2 hatch muta with my terran twice last season( i think thats the only bo u do), was pretty hilarious. My terran is like D+/C-
Even if I wasn't a B level player I would still say C+ is terrible, because it is in comparison to all those others who are out there. If you hack and you can't even get above that, what's the point in hacking at all? Also, food, it's possible that I have lost to you before, but I am dubious of what you say for a few reasons: I used to 2 hatch muta like 4-5 seasons ago, and now I barely do it. And secondly, last season I barely played at all (like 50 games when ASL or whatever it was called was going on). Also, I wouldn't get 2-0'd by a D+ terran.
And Arcology, sure let's play some, you need to help us revive sMi. anyways because right now I'm the highest ranked player, everyone is inactive and it's sucky in general. Ya, B+ is not good too but if you're getting C+ with hacks that's just idiotic, like I said earlier. I haven't won a game at B+ yet (I actually already lost it) but I definitely am going to try to do that this season. Ya I sound like a pompous asshole because I'm still not good, but think of it this way: C-'s are not good at all, C's are just barely a little bit better, so if you beat C's you are already C+. As someone said, ya C+ is good in comparison to all the people who play, but achieving that rank is not difficult at all if you try.
As someone told me Rage made a threat about me, it's easy to say he hacks because of my past. But i simple don't hack and it seems that rage just can't stop. If you want ill hand out a replay pack of all my replays on iccup. Replays where i defend vs hydra and get owned by muta or when i fast expand when a terr goes 2 fact. I don't even blame you if you still think i hack. I hacked in the past but like everyone is saying C+ ... Im not even C+ im at C level and when i reach C+ i lost all my games then and get back downto C-.
i just watched the replay, it's just common sense when i have my reaver out he can have reaver out too. where i didnt see 1 dt it's just obvious. Where i went to expand i moved a group to my expand and a group to my mineral line. There i thought i had the advantage by killing his shuttle and reaver i went to attack simple as that.
On August 26 2009 17:49 WetDreaM wrote: i just watched the replay, it's just common sense when i have my reaver out he can have reaver out too. where i didnt see 1 dt it's just obvious. Where i went to expand i moved a group to my expand and a group to my mineral line. There i thought i had the advantage by killing his shuttle and reaver i went to attack simple as that.
so you think its common sense to expand and camp after going 3gate reaver?
On August 26 2009 17:49 WetDreaM wrote: i just watched the replay, it's just common sense when i have my reaver out he can have reaver out too. where i didnt see 1 dt it's just obvious. Where i went to expand i moved a group to my expand and a group to my mineral line. There i thought i had the advantage by killing his shuttle and reaver i went to attack simple as that.
so you think its common sense to expand and camp after going 3gate reaver?
Lol okay so you are a semi-retarded looking white guy who seems no older than 16 with a serious case of Asian fever to fall for that moon-faced natural CJ face?
im not flaming people everyone is flaming me because someone decided to get back years ago and make me look bad in the community so the person himself can feel better probably
god this reminds of the dubious claims against Mistrzzz some year back. Rage is treading dangerous waters when posting a replay as evidence of hacking imo. We all know that not all actions might make sense to an observer, and some of them are based on the players GAME SENSE. Maybe the player suspected or thought that his opponents would make a move and he counters it, and it might look like a hack, because you are actively looking for it. It doesn't necessarily have to be a case of hacking though. If game sense was a reason to accuse someone of hacking, korean pros would be accused all the time.
The fact that this guy has hacked doesn't mean he still hacks. And C- to C/C+ isn't exactly evidence of hacking. Also Rage happens to be from the same country as WetDreaM which makes me wonder if there's something else to this story, ie. do they know each other from before?
Basically what I'm saying is that one should be extremely cautious when accusing people of hacking. Problem is that the person accused of hacking is shunned upon while the accuser becomes somewhat of a hero, because you can't really disprove that someone hacked through a replay. Thus I think it's a very cowardly thing to do to report someone of hacking based on a replay with suspicious moves.
We need hacking software detection or something in order to prove hacking.
i have no problem in setting up a stream or anything else to proof im not hacking.
Me and Rage have a past so do i with the whole belgium community, i hacked before i said i didnt and still got caught. I came back after a few years just to play and enjoy a bit.
Rage accused me i don't blame him but if you say i hack come with decent proof please before giving me a bad name.
Ill upload a replay pack tonight watch some more games and judge then.
Going C+ with 110 - 140 doesnt mean im suddenly good im barely C+ because 9 out of 10 c+ games i lose.
we're not actively searching for it, some guys on iccup have this in their profile that he hacks and i managed to get a replay from one of them. but its not like we need evidence to know he hacks,maybe for ppl who dont know about his past sure
On August 26 2009 20:23 DanteStyle wrote: we're not actively searching for it, some guys on iccup have this in their profile that he hacks and i managed to get a replay from one of them. but its not like we need evidence to know he hacks,maybe for ppl who dont know about his past sure
What do you mean you don't need evidence that he hacks?
lol, you know alot of people mature as they grow older.
On August 26 2009 20:18 WetDreaM wrote: i have no problem in setting up a stream or anything else to proof im not hacking.
Me and Rage have a past so do i with the whole belgium community, i hacked before i said i didnt and still got caught. I came back after a few years just to play and enjoy a bit.
Rage accused me i don't blame him but if you say i hack come with decent proof please before giving me a bad name.
Ill upload a replay pack tonight watch some more games and judge then.
Going C+ with 110 - 140 doesnt mean im suddenly good im barely C+ because 9 out of 10 c+ games i lose.
you realise that math doesnt anywhere near work and you wouldnt be at your rank if you lost that many games consecutively. That replay also has its very suspicious moments
hmm people are making fun of my appearance on the internet... better post my pic to set 'em straight, include a girl to make sure they see how successful i am
oh shit, they're still making fun of me?? AND the girl???
real mature guys, please grow up, making fun of people's pictures is for little children
*looks up #1 poster on facebook in attempt to find picture to make fun of* *only has access to thumbnailed profile picture* oh well this will have to do
look at this hoodie wearing nerd eating spaghetti!! hahaha what a farmer boy [?]
*wipes sweat from baby face with diaper* whew, another flamewar won... finally i can go back to maphacking in this game i'm completely terrible at
you are right, you started off with the forehead only reason why i posted my picture was to prove your wrong. Then you consisted with flaming my picture and why... take a look at yourself first before you start flaming others kiddie
Is this common procedure in the BW scene in Belgium to criticize each others IRL looks? Thank god they don't do that in the USA scene, shit would be off the hook.
Anyways, WetDream: Do you have autoreplay on? In that case you should upload like every replay you played from this season and not just a bunch of chosen replays. Someone should be able to say if there is evidence of hacking programs or something more than just a "obvious" move in a replay.
Oblivion is detected if the probe is made on time 2. Automine etc can now be disabled. That's the only thing you can't turn off right now and I checked with bwchart and this replay is oblivion free at least. I don't know if there are any other hacks out there BUT this replay doesn't look hackish to me.
On August 26 2009 23:11 WeSt wrote: Oblivion is detected if the probe is made on time 2. Automine etc can now be disabled. That's the only thing you can't turn off right now and I checked with bwchart and this replay is oblivion free at least. I don't know if there are any other hacks out there BUT this replay doesn't look hackish to me.
Care checking some of the replays wetdream posted above? I suck at that stuff
On August 26 2009 23:11 WeSt wrote: Oblivion is detected if the probe is made on time 2. Automine etc can now be disabled. That's the only thing you can't turn off right now and I checked with bwchart and this replay is oblivion free at least. I don't know if there are any other hacks out there BUT this replay doesn't look hackish to me.
Care checking some of the replays wetdream posted above? I suck at that stuff
I checked 10 replays, I don't have time for more. All the ones I checked are clean.
On August 26 2009 23:11 WeSt wrote: Oblivion is detected if the probe is made on time 2. Automine etc can now be disabled. That's the only thing you can't turn off right now and I checked with bwchart and this replay is oblivion free at least. I don't know if there are any other hacks out there BUT this replay doesn't look hackish to me.
Care checking some of the replays wetdream posted above? I suck at that stuff
I checked 10 replays, I don't have time for more. All the ones I checked are clean.
only retards mineral/autosplit hack. You can't detect maphacks in bwchart.
Just look at the game. It's so obvious. First he moves all his goons to the front, then sends some back to get rid of the incoming shuttle.
On August 26 2009 23:11 WeSt wrote: Oblivion is detected if the probe is made on time 2. Automine etc can now be disabled. That's the only thing you can't turn off right now and I checked with bwchart and this replay is oblivion free at least. I don't know if there are any other hacks out there BUT this replay doesn't look hackish to me.
Care checking some of the replays wetdream posted above? I suck at that stuff
I checked 10 replays, I don't have time for more. All the ones I checked are clean.
only retards mineral/autosplit hack. You can't detect maphacks in bwchart.
Just look at the game. It's so obvious. First he moves all his goons to the front, then sends some back to get rid of the incoming shuttle.
You obviously didn't read the previous post carefully.
On August 26 2009 04:17 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: Personally I believe people can straighten up, a hacker is not always hacker
that's true but the problem is everything online is anonymous and they have not real penalty from being caught or even any real positive from going legit. In fact, as stated by others in this thread they will always be labeled a hacker regardless if they change.
What is frustrating for gamers who are serious, is iccup does very little to stop it when it's obvious. I am beginning to believe they do not understand hacks can disable those simple features bwchart etc. can pick up. They need to re-download some common sense. This is the reply to the complaint.
This replay is very good proof. For more detail, pause it when the non-hacker's shuttle gets close to the hacker's base. Turn the red player's vision off, and you can see that the pylon that is placed to spot any incoming harassment clearly does not reveal any shuttle, not even a pixel. Around this time, his dragoons will half way toward the mineral line.
The hilarious part is that he loses many probes anyway XD
On August 27 2009 07:36 ChenYi wrote: What is frustrating for gamers who are serious, is iccup does very little to stop it when it's obvious. I am beginning to believe they do not understand hacks can disable those simple features bwchart etc. can pick up. They need to re-download some common sense. This is the reply to the complaint.
On August 26 2009 12:32 Superiorwolf wrote: Even if I wasn't a B level player I would still say C+ is terrible, because it is in comparison to all those others who are out there. If you hack and you can't even get above that, what's the point in hacking at all? Also, food, it's possible that I have lost to you before, but I am dubious of what you say for a few reasons: I used to 2 hatch muta like 4-5 seasons ago, and now I barely do it. And secondly, last season I barely played at all (like 50 games when ASL or whatever it was called was going on). Also, I wouldn't get 2-0'd by a D+ terran.
no idea why i wrote that, musta been wasted i dont even remember writing it but i was watching some streams recently, like gretorps for instance, and i seen some sick players at c+( obviously koreans) So bashing whole rank imo is too harsh
I support this ilu.wet because what happened in the past have stayed all rights to change which made it a level playing Wet resent demonstrating just saw the rep and saw that they use a hack called Rage I will advise that you worry and not to others I will support that was iLu.Wet is a good player that I disagree with those comenatrios as if they have no evidence that worth? if you use hack I was in the past they used know many hackers in the past and no longer always be used Wet ilu sampling pole opposite me
I am the leader of iLu and I didn't know that iLu.Wet] hacks and I didn't know he was a hacker that has hacked a lot so he is no longer in our clan. Thank you TL.net for all this information.
On August 30 2009 03:57 iLu.P4nZ3rS wrote: I support this ilu.wet because what happened in the past have stayed all rights to change which made it a level playing Wet resent demonstrating just saw the rep and saw that they use a hack called Rage I will advise that you worry and not to others I will support that was iLu.Wet is a good player that I disagree with those comenatrios as if they have no evidence that worth? if you use hack I was in the past they used know many hackers in the past and no longer always be used Wet ilu sampling pole opposite me
lmao
I wonder if he read a google translation of the OP and is responding to that.
Actually, I wonder if his only means of communication with WetDreaM is through google translation.
In any case, whatever the fuck he says doesn't really matter.
From op I gather WetDream have a history of hacking, a streak that is higher than his average, and Rage's recently played uploaded replay where WetDream performs a suspicious move.
Shouldn't it take more? At least another replay(s)? I mean a player can do stuff on gut feelings, and sometimes get lucky while laddering.
i posted a replay pack of all my iccup games to check, guess they didnt even want to do the effort to check them and see their mistake. Altho i understand why they accused me and i don't blame them. My history says enough. But i have learned from it. You always get caught iccup shows this once more. It's only good for the time being when they don't find anything to catch but eventually the antihack will improve and if you did hack in the past they will find it !
Before calling people hackers, at least have some kind of proof. Suspicious moves are not proof and will never be. Catching people with anti-hack programs is proof.
If he hacked, he would have been on this list, unless he's on an AKA on ICCUP which I guess is possible.
On August 31 2009 18:09 Wala.Revolution wrote: From op I gather WetDream have a history of hacking, a streak that is higher than his average, and Rage's recently played uploaded replay where WetDream performs a suspicious move.
Shouldn't it take more? At least another replay(s)? I mean a player can do stuff on gut feelings, and sometimes get lucky while laddering.
Yeah exactly.
I think it's kind of cowardly to accuse other people like this based on suspicious moves without any real proof. You destroy their reputation pretty much forever in Starcraft. They can't prove that they didn't hack, and the accusations and suspicion against them will linger and stick to them.
On August 26 2009 03:20 DanteStyle wrote: this guy has been caught so many times its ridiculous he should suicide
what kind of statement is that? I wouldn´t ever play the guy but hey, i dont really know if im ready to wish suicide on some random guy on the other end of the web for hacking in brood war
On August 31 2009 18:45 WetDreaM wrote: btw im no longer in iLu thx to rage his post here
hahahahahaha owned
if you call that owned.. giving false information and there by getting kicked by your team. I'd rather say it's immature but you have already proven that.
On August 31 2009 18:45 WetDreaM wrote: btw im no longer in iLu thx to rage his post here
hahahahahaha owned
if you call that owned.. giving false information and there by getting kicked by your team. I'd rather say it's immature but you have already proven that.
Good Work !
well, given that you seem pretty upset ,id say you got owned
Im barely upset with something an immature kid says i'm only giving facts and they think ( rage - cow ) they are god and can accuse or say anything they want about somebody and the sad part is people don't need any facts they just believe what morons post pretty disturbing.
On August 31 2009 23:11 some faggot who got caught hacking at least four times and denied it every single time wrote: Im barely upset with something an immature kid says i'm only giving facts and they think ( rage - cow ) they are god and can accuse or say anything they want about somebody and the sad part is people don't need any facts they just believe what morons post pretty disturbing.
On August 31 2009 11:03 Jumperer wrote: iccup disconnected Clazzi in game 3 and 4 against me in liquidtourney #3(hack modification detected blah blah blah). I thought it was a mistake but looks like it isnt.
lol so he was using it in tourneys too? awesooooooooome
better yet: he hacked in the tournament he was organizing himself.
You realise that only covers if you happened to play a game on the two days that they ran that right? And alot of hackers were able to avoid it because the word got out fast.
You realise that only covers if you happened to play a game on the two days that they ran that right? And alot of hackers were able to avoid it because the word got out fast.
rage his accusation is i am not c+ level and i cant win on that level without hack all my latest games in the two days are vs c and c+.
I don't really understand why people feel the need to hack when there's nothing really on the line. In my mind, any supposed boost in ego from being a higher rank would be accompanied immediately by a deflation in ego from the realization that that rank was reached illegitamately through cheating.
On September 01 2009 03:56 Lemonwalrus wrote: ^^ That is why I edited (nice ninja ) because once I finished my post I thought of Testie and realized that my position was untenable.
Yeah. Like Manifesto7 said, TL is full of inconsistancies. Testie, TreK and others have hacked in the past but like where to draw the line? I don't have a problem with either of them being here at all, then again they hacked so long ago it hardly even matters anymore.
With this kid, all I see is a vague accusation because of a suspicious move in a replay. C'mon, that has to be the easiest way to fuck up someones reputation, considering how many suspicious moves non-hacking people are making every day in Starcraft.
On September 01 2009 03:56 Lemonwalrus wrote: ^^ That is why I edited (nice ninja ) because once I finished my post I thought of Testie and realized that my position was untenable.
Yeah. Like Manifesto7 said, TL is full of inconsistancies. Testie, TreK and others have hacked in the past but like where to draw the line? I don't have a problem with either of them being here at all, then again they hacked so long ago it hardly even matters anymore.
With this kid, all I see is a vague accusation because of a suspicious move in a replay. C'mon, that has to be the easiest way to fuck up someones reputation, considering how many suspicious moves non-hacking people are making every day in Starcraft.
There are suspicious moves that somehow make sense. This one doesn't.why the fuck would you move out with all your goons, and then send back 5 directly to your mineral line, leaving the others exposed.. especially when you're expoing.
If the other protoss did anything else but shuttleharass WetDream would've died right there. This kid hasn't ever played a game without hacks in the past 5 years. He never stopped. Why would he have stopped now? Oh and he suddenly became better too?
The reason every Belgian thinks he's a hacker is not because we have a grudge (eventhough we do, that's not the reason). It's because we know this kid, and we've never seen a game of him where he didn't hack except those few days where the anti- antihack wasn't released yet.
If you don't understand the game don't even try to eplain here. You said i cheated iccup just caught all the hackers im not on them and i still won most of my games vs C C+ 2 days before the "so called anti anithack".
On September 02 2009 20:27 Rekrul wrote: u hack bro just admit it
from someone who has achieved so much i can hardly take that serious because i know if you had just watched the reppack you wouldn't say such a thing or maybe your just doing that because your friends with ragenerd
On September 01 2009 03:56 Lemonwalrus wrote: ^^ That is why I edited (nice ninja ) because once I finished my post I thought of Testie and realized that my position was untenable.
Yeah. Like Manifesto7 said, TL is full of inconsistancies. Testie, TreK and others have hacked in the past but like where to draw the line? I don't have a problem with either of them being here at all, then again they hacked so long ago it hardly even matters anymore.
With this kid, all I see is a vague accusation because of a suspicious move in a replay. C'mon, that has to be the easiest way to fuck up someones reputation, considering how many suspicious moves non-hacking people are making every day in Starcraft.
There are suspicious moves that somehow make sense. This one doesn't.why the fuck would you move out with all your goons, and then send back 5 directly to your mineral line, leaving the others exposed.. especially when you're expoing.
If the other protoss did anything else but shuttleharass WetDream would've died right there. This kid hasn't ever played a game without hacks in the past 5 years. He never stopped. Why would he have stopped now? Oh and he suddenly became better too?
The reason every Belgian thinks he's a hacker is not because we have a grudge (eventhough we do, that's not the reason). It's because we know this kid, and we've never seen a game of him where he didn't hack except those few days where the anti- antihack wasn't released yet.
3 paragraphs and 3 contradictions haha
On September 01 2009 22:23 RaGe wrote: There are suspicious moves that somehow make sense. This one doesn't.why the fuck would you move out with all your goons, and then send back 5 directly to your mineral line, leaving the others exposed.. especially when you're expoing.
If the other protoss did anything else but shuttleharass WetDream would've died right there. This kid hasn't ever played a game without hacks in the past 5 years. He never stopped. Why would he have stopped now? Oh and he suddenly became better too?
this makes perfect sense. you go for an expand. you remember that you did not protect your workers against reavers. you send 4-5 goons there, what's the problem. in case the opponent attacks you bring the goons back and position them on higher ground, not a very big deal.
On September 01 2009 22:23 RaGe wrote: The reason every Belgian thinks he's a hacker is not because we have a grudge (eventhough we do, that's not the reason).
haha, good reasoning - "you think we do it based on a grudge??.", "we have grudge.", "it's not because of that.", "believe me"
On September 01 2009 22:23 RaGe wrote: It's because we know this kid, and we've never seen a game of him where he didn't hack except those few days where the anti- antihack wasn't released yet.
wow how lucky he must be - hack all the time and when it's least expected to be caught turns out he did not hack
my point is that it seems very possible this kid was not hacking at all, unless you can prove he was hacking, no point to jump on him here.
i deeply apologize for tarnishing your otherwise stellar reputation
Serious Post: To be honest, I do not care one bit whether this piece of shit is hacking right now or not. I'm down with leniency and everything, I believe that hackers can be welcomed back into the community, provided they have served their time in exile (say, at least a year or so) and have shown remorse. Nobody's perfect, everybody fucks up once in a while - I don't think it's absolutely necessary to hold it against them forever.
However, there's a limit to this leniency. There's stealing a bag of candy from a Walmart, and then there's stealing five million dollars from a bank. There's kicking a guy in the shin, and then there's disemboweling a guy with a bowie knife. There's war criminals, and then there's Adolf fuckin' Hitler.
This guy, gentlemen, is Adolf fuckin' Hitler. To you, he probably just looks like an angry little man with a funny moustache. To the players in the Belgian community, he looks like Satan himself. We know this guy and we have dealt with him for years. He has always been the cancer that was plaguing our beloved channel. Every time we thought the chemo therapy finally got rid of him, he'd just pop right back up and crush our new found hopes.
RaGe's OP was not exaggerated - this guy has been caught at least six times, spread over several years. Six times, getting caught every time, making excuses for himself, constantly running his mouth against his opponents, knowing that he could only beat them by cheating at a casual game. Every time, he came back, acted as if he were a legit player this time around, only to be caught yet again. Not to sound overly dramatic, but this worm is pretty much the archetype of the incorrigible criminal. If this sounds like the sort of person to you that should be forgiven and be let into the community, you're either Mother Theresa or a complete lunatic, and you don't look like a dead nun to me.
I've had my fun with him and I'm banning him right now - this loser shouldn't be allowed to participate in the beautiful community that is TL.
If you want to ban him for his past misdeeds (as well as his present rudeness), then I think that's fine.
If you want to ban him because he hacked during the period where iccup killer was active, I think that there isn't enough evidence at the moment to back such an accusation up.
That being said, I think that vGl-CoW was far less professional in this thread than I've come to expect TL staff to be, and I hope that he's not letting personal feelings get in the way of his moderating decisions.
yeah like i said - i don't even care whether he's hacking right now or not, the fact that he has done nothing but hack in the past decade means that he cannot be a part of this community
seeing him banned from iccup would warm my cruel and bitter heart, but i doubt this going to be the case
edit in response to your edit: i know this comes across as me simply wanting to ban the guy out of personal spite. while it is true that i take immense joy in fucking with him, my years of contact with him have allowed me to discern the fact that he is of extremely poor moral fiber and definitely unable to live up to the standards we expect from our users
any other mods can overturn my ban if they feel i went overboard here, but given this guy's resume, i'd say it's doubtful they will
On September 02 2009 23:45 scwizard wrote: If you want to ban him for his past misdeeds (as well as his present rudeness), then I think that's fine.
If you want to ban him because he hacked during the period where iccup killer was active, I think that there isn't enough evidence at the moment to back such an accusation up.
That being said, I think that vGl-CoW was far less professional in this thread than I've come to expect TL staff to be, and I hope that he's not letting personal feelings get in the way of his moderating decisions.
Moderating on TL is largely based on personal decisions by our staff. We make people we trust Moderators. In this situation I trust Cow and Rage's judgment far more than some random guy who got caught hacking 6 times.
If you think flaming a hacker is "too unprofessional" for our staff, you are being far too lenient toward them. We have a harsh view when it comes to hacking. Sure there are exceptions, but there are good reasons why certain hackers are forgiven (they've taken punishment, shown themselves to be remorseful, and worked very hard to get a reputation back). Hacking is the cardinal sin in a BW community. It's like skipping out on debts or cheating at cards, or taking steroids in baseball. There's nothing worse you can do.
Cheaters ruin this game we love so much and I'm not going to cry over this kid getting flamed or banned. You souldn't either. If that makes us unprofessional in your eyes, deal with it. We aren't changing how we act toward hacking idiots.
You say 6 times everyone believes you... i know of 3 times and yes i denied it like every other hacker did. It was like 2-3 years ago since i hacked and to get back to legit you had to apologie to the community on wgtour thread and play with the hacker flag and that's what i did i did apologize i did show remorse and i played with the hacker flag as punishment. You just decide to never give me a chance and bring this out again to the community and make it start all over again. I can make as many accounts here as i want because i have ip firewall like on your ventrilo where you banned me aswell and im even back on that. So your ban doesnt really mean alot it's just something personal you are making public now and with making smth public about years ago trying to ruin my reputation.
GG PWNED ban this account aswell so i can login to my other one xD
On August 26 2009 12:32 Superiorwolf wrote: Even if I wasn't a B level player I would still say C+ is terrible, because it is in comparison to all those others who are out there. If you hack and you can't even get above that, what's the point in hacking at all?
I think the point is learning. There is so much pressure to becoming a good player. SC is slowly shrinking everyday, and the few players left have pretty strong gameplay. Say, I have been playing this game since its release, but recently I decided to go competitive. Despite all my attempts, I can only get to C rank. I tried a lot of different stuff to improve this far: -I made maps to improve a specific area Im lacking -I have downloaded over 10.000 replays over the last 10 years -I have seen a lot of professional VODs and FPVODs -I have read many forum strategy guidelines, and I guess I am improving. But it is slow, it is very very slow.
I think I would be better if I played against stronger players, who are more mechanically consistent and will give me a better idea on what to expect at a given time of the game. A bit like weight training, progressive overload.
Now, suppose you are the average C player and you want to play against a ToT) member, so you can benefit from advice, and experience the game at higher level. Odds are you wont get it. I RARELY got anyone above B- level to play against me. And trust me, I try it a lot. The only time someone will play me is if I am at C, and I find a good player who is trying to rank up from D level quickly. It is extremely rare, though.
That leaves me two choices: -Hack -Pretend I am a girl
I think hacking has more benefits than the second one. I think you can learn to better time your builds, to respond better, know when you have an advantage, when you should attack, when you should defend and learn from your own mistakes live. Without hacking, you make one mistake and the game may be over, then you have to go through the replay to identify it. So, I guess it saves a lot of time.
It is not hacking to be evil, destroy the game or boost your ego. It is a personal experience, like a controversial experiment, a crazy scientist working on something extremely unstable that may blow up the whole world, but it will prove to have its benefits in the future. Later on, we have WetDream in iccup channel helping D level players improve. We have Testie playing random newbs from TLnet in op tl-west, we have TT1 sharing his B+/A- replays with the community.
If they have good intent, hack away, I say. ...not in ladder matches, though :p
On August 26 2009 12:32 Superiorwolf wrote: Even if I wasn't a B level player I would still say C+ is terrible, because it is in comparison to all those others who are out there. If you hack and you can't even get above that, what's the point in hacking at all?
I think the point is learning. There is so much pressure to becoming a good player. SC is slowly shrinking everyday, and the few players left have pretty strong gameplay. Say, I have been playing this game since its release, but recently I decided to go competitive. Despite all my attempts, I can only get to C rank. I tried a lot of different stuff to improve this far: -I made maps to improve a specific area Im lacking -I have downloaded over 10.000 replays over the last 10 years -I have seen a lot of professional VODs and FPVODs -I have read many forum strategy guidelines, and I guess I am improving. But it is slow, it is very very slow.
I think I would be better if I played against stronger players, who are more mechanically consistent and will give me a better idea on what to expect at a given time of the game. A bit like weight training, progressive overload.
Now, suppose you are the average C player and you want to play against a ToT) member, so you can benefit from advice, and experience the game at higher level. Odds are you wont get it. I RARELY got anyone above B- level to play against me. And trust me, I try it a lot. The only time someone will play me is if I am at C, and I find a good player who is trying to rank up from D level quickly. It is extremely rare, though.
That leaves me two choices: -Hack -Pretend I am a girl
I think hacking has more benefits than the second one. I think you can learn to better time your builds, to respond better, know when you have an advantage, when you should attack, when you should defend and learn from your own mistakes live. Without hacking, you make one mistake and the game may be over, then you have to go through the replay to identify it. So, I guess it saves a lot of time.
It is not hacking to be evil, destroy the game or boost your ego. It is a personal experience, like a controversial experiment, a crazy scientist working on something extremely unstable that may blow up the whole world, but it will prove to have its benefits in the future. Later on, we have WetDream in iccup channel helping D level players improve. We have Testie playing random newbs from TLnet in op tl-west, we have TT1 sharing his B+/A- replays with the community.
If they have good intent, hack away, I say. ...not in ladder matches, though :p
Well doesn't that sound fair to the guy who isn't hacking? Imagine trying to learn what works and what doesn't work when you're playing against someone with a maphack revealing all of your strategies. You'd probably come to the conclusion that proxies, drops, and early timing attacks never work in sc.
And i can still come on ventrilo... The only thing you can do is bann me to make me shut up but it won't do, i don't hack i did in the past i did my sin get over it like you did with testie, trek, ... No because they are high ranked players they get more respect that's it.
On August 26 2009 12:32 Superiorwolf wrote: Even if I wasn't a B level player I would still say C+ is terrible, because it is in comparison to all those others who are out there. If you hack and you can't even get above that, what's the point in hacking at all?
I think the point is learning. There is so much pressure to becoming a good player. SC is slowly shrinking everyday, and the few players left have pretty strong gameplay. Say, I have been playing this game since its release, but recently I decided to go competitive. Despite all my attempts, I can only get to C rank. I tried a lot of different stuff to improve this far: -I made maps to improve a specific area Im lacking -I have downloaded over 10.000 replays over the last 10 years -I have seen a lot of professional VODs and FPVODs -I have read many forum strategy guidelines, and I guess I am improving. But it is slow, it is very very slow.
I think I would be better if I played against stronger players, who are more mechanically consistent and will give me a better idea on what to expect at a given time of the game. A bit like weight training, progressive overload.
Now, suppose you are the average C player and you want to play against a ToT) member, so you can benefit from advice, and experience the game at higher level. Odds are you wont get it. I RARELY got anyone above B- level to play against me. And trust me, I try it a lot. The only time someone will play me is if I am at C, and I find a good player who is trying to rank up from D level quickly. It is extremely rare, though.
That leaves me two choices: -Hack -Pretend I am a girl
I think hacking has more benefits than the second one. I think you can learn to better time your builds, to respond better, know when you have an advantage, when you should attack, when you should defend and learn from your own mistakes live. Without hacking, you make one mistake and the game may be over, then you have to go through the replay to identify it. So, I guess it saves a lot of time.
It is not hacking to be evil, destroy the game or boost your ego. It is a personal experience, like a controversial experiment, a crazy scientist working on something extremely unstable that may blow up the whole world, but it will prove to have its benefits in the future. Later on, we have WetDream in iccup channel helping D level players improve. We have Testie playing random newbs from TLnet in op tl-west, we have TT1 sharing his B+/A- replays with the community.
If they have good intent, hack away, I say. ...not in ladder matches, though :p
I think using hacks to improve in starcraft is like using training wheels to learn how to ride a bike. You get use to the feeling of cruising, but when you take them off, you just crash and burn. Learning to ride a bike takes learning from your mistakes and so does starcraft (although I wouldn't know cuz I suck). I don't think hacks can really help you become a better player--it probably deceives you with that feeling though.
There's a difference between someone saying that a person hacked 6 times and that person actually getting caught by an anti-hack program 6 times. As we all know, some people like to call everyone hackers. I have no idea how many times I've been called a hacker on ICCUP, just because I win a game.
I dunno, I'm just advocating the use of certain standards in order to call someone a hacker. Suspicious moves are 99% of the time not hacking, they are game sense and what not. I have many times made moves that I think people would find iffy if they tried to make it seem that I was hacking. You know, positioned tanks in exact places where your opponent was gonna drop and what not. I have never used a hack though, and I've played BW for a long time.
So even this guy admits that he's hacked 2-3 times, which kinda tells you that he is bound to repeat it. Then again, he might have hacked 2-3 times in a period of time, say a year. And if that period of time was a couple of years back, I'm not sure how much of judgement you should place on this person. Alot of people mature alot because they start playing when they are young and then they grow older and aren't longer teenagers and probably won't ever touch hacks again.
I dunno I'm just rambling now. I think it's important to not make it okay to call someone a hacker based on a suspicious move. Reminds me of witchhunting and people accusing others on very vague grounds.
On August 25 2011 06:51 Snuggles wrote: Hackers are seriously bizarre people. Can't really understand these people who repeatedly get caught red handed yet still continue to do it.
They are often hard to catch and rarely are they perma-banned from competing in a game. Hilarious though.
Ahahahahaha, this is too good! Omg, i was so pissed at this guy and for SK to bring him into 'competitive' gaming, guess he couldn't stay normal in that scene either!
WetDream fucking the people he works with over is sort of a tradition around these parts, so I thought you guys would find it interesting that, yes, WetDream has managed to ruin yet another good thing and hurt ESPORTS. Again.
There's only so much sympathy I can have at this point. What a shitty human being he is, but by now you have to really tie your stupid-cap on pretty tight to work with him.
I was watching saintvicious (CLG US) on stream and he was talking about this. I knew the name sounded familiar, but couldn't put my fingers on it. Now it all makes sense.
EPT
Unless you are actually good at sc now, but that seems hard for me to accept. We should play a few sometime so I can see.
![[image loading]](http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9392/lolhacker.png)
![[image loading]](http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4644/lolhacker2.png)
![[image loading]](http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7562/timngrin.jpg)
