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This is addressed to the Christians who responded to my last blog post:
If you asked me seven years ago what it means to have a personal relationship with God I probably would have been able to give you an answer. If you walk into a Church today and talk to any pastor, leader or member of the congregation, given that they are charismatic enough, I'm sure they would be more than prepared to give you an answer as well.
And how were we able to answer so enthusiastically? Because we thought that we had found something that no-one else had. And the pride swells up in our hearts because we don't realise that everybody else has already been there and done that. I could never understand back then why some of my Christian friends who were Christians before me stopped being Christians. But weren't you touched by that service? Didn't you feel like God was saying something to you? There I was, a 17 year old boy who had barely been a Christian for a single year, trying to tell someone who had been a Christian ever since they were 7 and had been attending Church since then what it meant to have a personal relationship with God.
An elderly man spends all his days praying, reading the Bible and Christian books and listening to sermons on tape. The old man can hardly walk or hear and takes pills to relieve the pain in his arthritic hip. Since the death of his wife years ago he has lived alone in a state of near-paranoia - anxious about heating bills and lights left on. When I look at him I don't see a joyful saint in communioin with God. I see a tired, lonely old man just sitting around waiting to go to Heaven. But he's the nicest man you'll ever meet. And in much the same way, an old friend of mine used to visit her grandmother in Christchurch. She spent her days listening to audio books because she couldn't read anymore. She didn't believe in God and my friend would never let me go visit her because she knew at that time that I would have just gone to preach. And I would have gone with genuine intentions because I truly believed that if only she knew Jesus Christ her dying days would be fulfilling.
To explain a life of spiritual ecstasy to a fully grown adult who wets their bed and has Alzheimers is like a rich man who has just closed another million dollar deal dancing out of the office building he works in and singing life is good and joyfully shouting God bless you to the homeless man on the concrete pavement.
A song that says a lot about Christianity to me is What Do I Know by Sara Groves. The lyrics go: "I have a friend who just turned 88 and she just shared with me that she's afraid of dying. I sit here years from her experience and try to bring her comfort. I try to bring her comfort but what do I know? She grew up singing about the Glory Land and she would testify of how Jesus changed her life. It was easy to have faith when she was 34 but now her friends are dying and death is at her door. She lost her husband after 60 years and as he slipped away she still had things to say. Death can be so inconvenient because you try to live and love but it comes and interrupts".
The other day I told someone that I would not want to be involved with serving in a Church again. I told him that there had been too many bad things that have happened in my life and that I didn't want to go back to having to deal with that sort of stuff anymore. And he said to me: "Wow, it really sounds like you need some of God's love, peace and joy in your life"! I didn't know how to tell him that it was the expectation of those very things that ultimately led me to not believe in God anymore.
I know that for some of you me writing this seems absurd. You probably think that I don't know what it's like to have a personal relationship with God or that I've fallen away and that I just need to come back to God again. I know this because years ago a friend of mine said these same words to me and I told her she had to just close her eyes at night before she went to bed and ask Jesus back into her heart. I told her: "It has to be real and you can't just do it because I said so". I told her that knowing God and being able to walk with Him everyday was the best thing that could ever happen to her. I knew that because it was the best thing that ever happened to me. This was around 2004 or 2003.
When I look back to all the e-mails I used to write to my friends I notice that I used to always sign them with 'God loves you' or its various variations - such as God loves you heaps or God loves you forever. The other night I woke up in the middle of the night and sent a text message to a friend and decided to enter it in at the end. Then I read over what I wrote and laughed and then went back to sleep.
 
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In a way I envy those people fortunate enough to have convinced themselves that a god exists, because of the happiness it brings. Blissful ignorance.
For me, I know enough science so that I could never be convinced about religion. There's no happiness in knowing that nobody is watching over me and when I die my body will simply decompose and I will cease to exist.
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I see this happening more and more. Faithful God followers coming back to the atheist side that everyone is is born to. I have never believed in God although I have tried once, it didn't happen. I think that anyone intelligent enough to think it through will eventually become an atheist unless they are truly scared of death. I am not scared of death because all I know is that when you die you become unconscious. I dont give a shit what happens then. you can burn me, eat me or whatever you wanna do and i will not feel a thing!
The "bliss" and "perfect happiness" that swells inside people is a natural high that is caused when you slip into the present. When you are in the present nothing else matters and you have a deep deep intelligence that causes you to do the "right" thing. This makes you feel extremely happy because you are not caught up in the past or the future. God is the "present" and few people can live in that state all the time. The most happy people come close.
God is a comfort thing but what it really is has to do with the present.
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Qet, the way you worded your post is offensive.
Using the word 'ignorance'... There are Christians that have studied more Science than you, so please don't write as if you know everything. Respect each others views please.
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On August 24 2009 12:12 Hypnosis wrote:
I see this happening more and more. Faithful God followers coming back to the atheist side that everyone is is born to. I have never believed in God although I have tried once, it didn't happen. I think that anyone intelligent enough to think it through will eventually become an atheist unless they are truly scared of death. I am not scared of death because all I know is that when you die you become unconscious. I dont give a shit what happens then. you can burn me, eat me or whatever you wanna do and i will not feel a thing!
The "bliss" and "perfect happiness" that swells inside people is a natural high that is caused when you slip into the present. When you are in the present nothing else matters and you have a deep deep intelligence that causes you to do the "right" thing. This makes you feel extremely happy because you are not caught up in the past or the future. God is the "present" and few people can live in that state all the time. The most happy people come close.
God is a comfort thing but what it really is has to do with the present.
Yes but how do you know for sure? The presence of the holy spirit is different than the feeling of a 'high' that you get when you feel that you are right.
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On August 24 2009 12:14 Astray wrote:
Qet, the way you worded your post is offensive.
Using the word 'ignorance'... There are Christians that have studied more Science than you, so please don't write as if you know everything. Respect each others views please.
Using the word 'offensive'... There are Christian pastors who have raped little boys, so please don't write as if you know what is horribly offensive. Respect each others judgment please.
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On August 24 2009 12:01 qet wrote:
In a way I envy those people fortunate enough to have convinced themselves that a god exists, because of the happiness it brings. Blissful ignorance.
For me, I know enough science so that I could never be convinced about religion. There's no happiness in knowing that nobody is watching over me and when I die my body will simply decompose and I will cease to exist.
Do you really believe that? Once, a serving one in my church was sharing about how we all need to have a good education. With his experience of gospel preaching, he knew that unbelievers would bring up science as a counter-argument against Christianity, that no one who knew science would believe in a god. You know what? He got his Ph.D in Physics while believing fully in God.
So you can say whatever you want about science and God being mutually exclusive, but it's just not true.
To the OP:
I'm really not sure what part of your post to "approach" first nor how I should...
Could you elaborate your feelings?
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On August 24 2009 12:23 Mooga wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 12:14 Astray wrote:
Qet, the way you worded your post is offensive.
Using the word 'ignorance'... There are Christians that have studied more Science than you, so please don't write as if you know everything. Respect each others views please. Using the word 'offensive'... There are Christian pastors who have raped little boys, so please don't write as if you know what is horribly offensive. Respect each others judgment please.
That's quite the generalization. Do you think every person that lives in the south has sex with their cousins? Do you think every African American is a lazy, no good criminal?
Just because it's easy and acceptable to bash on religious figures who suffer for the actions of a small fraction of individuals doesn't mean you can use it to justify your comment.
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On August 24 2009 12:23 Mooga wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 12:14 Astray wrote:
Qet, the way you worded your post is offensive.
Using the word 'ignorance'... There are Christians that have studied more Science than you, so please don't write as if you know everything. Respect each others views please. Using the word 'offensive'... There are Christian pastors who have raped little boys, so please don't write as if you know what is horribly offensive. Respect each others judgment please.
What does that got to do with this?
Christian pastors? You mean Catholic priests. Please, there are many types of Christianity.
I never said anything offensive towards Mooga's belief. I just stated that the way he worded it was offensive. Please don't get into something you don't fully understand, because the only thing you will prove is your ignorance.
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I hate when religion topics come up on tl-net because there are a few people that always make insulting and offending remakrs directly at people and at someone's faith. Why the fuck do you care if someone believe's in god or not, at the guy who said there are christian pastors who have reaped little boys. These people are wrong no doubt about it, but what do u expect them to be 100% perfect? There is no such thing as someone who doesn't sin even according to the bible and these people are no exception. You point out these pastor's faults but how are we not sure your not a douchebag or just a faggot? ( these are just assumptions as you see and they are quite empty and pointless) My point is that, you cant just generalize all christians and say that if they commit a sin that they are complete hypocrites. Christians aren't morally perfect and just cause one christian sins doesn't mean it tarnishes the entire religion. Because George Bush invaded Iraq for no reason at all does that mean all Americans are irrational people?
No offense to anybody.
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Religion threads bring out the bigotry, ignorance, and absolute worst out of all atheists. -_-
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i think TL should make a rule that bans all religion discussions because its fucking pointless, nobody is going to get converted to athiesm or christianity over one thread and all its going to do is cause arguments and beef between people.
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Double Post... Dammit, stupid Bell...
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On August 24 2009 12:43 SanguineToss wrote:
i think TL should make a rule that bans all religion discussions because its fucking pointless, nobody is going to get converted to athiesm or christianity over one thread and all its going to do is cause arguments and beef between people.
You're right, it causes nothing but pointless arguments.
Sorry for my posts on this thread. ^^;;
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What a stupid post, what was the point of this. It's just whining, who cares if religion is involved.
Stop tying god in with your quality of life. It's sickening. Whether you believe or don't, your quality of life should be unaffected by a belief or non-belief in any entity. Make your life your own mammal.
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On August 24 2009 12:43 SanguineToss wrote:
i think TL should make a rule that bans all religion discussions because its fucking pointless, nobody is going to get converted to athiesm or christianity over one thread and all its going to do is cause arguments and beef between people.
That's not even the point of the thread.
Did you read it at all?
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On August 24 2009 12:54 keV. wrote:
What a stupid post, what was the point of this. It's just whining, who cares if religion is involved.
Stop tying god in with your quality of life. It's sickening. Whether you believe or don't, your quality of life should be unaffected by a belief or non-belief in any entity. Make your life your own mammal.
That's an insensitive thing to say. If you have nothing useful to contribute, don't bother saying it. You could say that exact same phrase to soooo many blogs.
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On August 24 2009 13:01 BanZu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 12:54 keV. wrote:
What a stupid post, what was the point of this. It's just whining, who cares if religion is involved.
Stop tying god in with your quality of life. It's sickening. Whether you believe or don't, your quality of life should be unaffected by a belief or non-belief in any entity. Make your life your own mammal. That's an insensitive thing to say. If you have nothing useful to contribute, don't bother saying it. You could say that exact same phrase to soooo many blogs.
Who says I have to be sensitive about some crybaby? I'm contributing a suggestion to grow the fuck up.
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On August 24 2009 13:02 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 13:01 BanZu wrote:On August 24 2009 12:54 keV. wrote:
What a stupid post, what was the point of this. It's just whining, who cares if religion is involved.
Stop tying god in with your quality of life. It's sickening. Whether you believe or don't, your quality of life should be unaffected by a belief or non-belief in any entity. Make your life your own mammal. That's an insensitive thing to say. If you have nothing useful to contribute, don't bother saying it. You could say that exact same phrase to soooo many blogs. Who says I have to be sensitive about some crybaby? I'm contributing a suggestion to grow the fuck up.
Jeez, you've either had a really bad experience with Christianity or just simply PMSing really hard. I'm not sure why you're so offended haha. Pretty sad IMO...
Btw, if you're going to:
1. Be insensitive, don't post. I never said you had to post something "sensitive", just don't post at all.
2. Post a suggestion? More like an insult through blunt words. Sounds like you're whining about someone's blog whereas the OP is "whining" about something that's actually not trivial. Which is more "stupid"?
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On August 24 2009 12:01 qet wrote:
In a way I envy those people fortunate enough to have convinced themselves that a god exists, because of the happiness it brings. Blissful ignorance.
For me, I know enough science so that I could never be convinced about religion. There's no happiness in knowing that nobody is watching over me and when I die my body will simply decompose and I will cease to exist.
lol what? how are people happy when they have convinced themselves that they are being watched at every point and time of their life, and they must follow these 10 rules, and if they break any one of these rules they will burn in hell forever? yeah that's very happy alright.
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EPT
