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On December 08 2008 06:20 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:57 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 05:51 Liquid`Drone wrote:
kalynn, trying to fight misogyny on the internet is seriously impossible. im not even going to try. your energy is far better spent just ignoring it than attempting to create serious topics like this, because everyone guilty of doing what you hate is going to ignore you, and its far too ingrained in the whole male internet culture/community for us to try to moderate it. it's just going to have to eventually slowly fade away through real girls becoming a more significant and vocal part of internet/gaming culture/communties. To me, it doesnt matter that it's an uphill battle. Letting people away with it means that they still get away with it and nothing is accomplished. It's a big problem that isn't just going to go away. I'm obviously not being taken seriously by a lot of people, and I half expected that. I posted not to get revenge or have people get their comeuppance, but to voice my opinion. It's too bad that some people are proving me right, here. Anyone who says that fighting misogyny is impossible is incredibly misogynist. Why exactly are we supposed to ignore the material consequences of your speech, which is the reinforcement of the patriarchal hegemony manifest on this site? A thread is started asking people to behave halfway compassionately and your response is to ask womyn to slow down during an ever present emergency? Obviously she's not getting ignored because at least 90% of the subsequent posts served to reinforce the oppression she's feeling. I wonder why womyn don't want to become more vocal in this community? (And what could you possibly mean by "'real' girls"? Anyway, kalynn... just don't get overwhelmed by all this.
concurred
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On December 08 2008 06:35 hiroxx wrote:
why even ask? she said "I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive", males wouldn't get offended by that
She might be happier hiding at home then enduring all of your abuse but she wouldn't be happy hiding. There's so much ceaseless verbal abuse aimed at womyn through all mediums of communication on this planet that any attempt at social interaction is going to engender more degrading language than is possible to ignore. So my guess is that she believes that the only way she can be comfortable not hiding is to somehow change the climate of the place she wants to step out into.
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BTW just so you know, most people are joking about sexism, what with all the back in the kitchen talk and all that. A lot of the responses in this thread are just because it's THIS thread, if you asked a lot of people in a serious situation in real life what their opinions about gender equality were the responses would be a lot different.
Speaking of that, get back in the kitchen.
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On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places.
In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that.
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On December 08 2008 06:37 Descent wrote:
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
So in a nutshell, the majority of the community doesn't agree with the rule "no sexism", and enforcing it would result in a possibly big loss of members?
It's just interesting imagining if the topic were racism instead of sexism.
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On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that.
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken.
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On December 08 2008 06:45 yoshtodd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:37 Descent wrote:
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
So in a nutshell, the majority of the community doesn't agree with the rule "no sexism", and enforcing it would result in a possibly big loss of members? It's just interesting imagining if the topic were racism instead of sexism.
Based on the other replies in this topic, I would say so.
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Melbourne5338 Posts
On December 08 2008 06:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
Kalynn makes a valid point, its just for efficiency reasons we can't enforce such a policy.
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
There wouldn't be as much to have to stop if you tried to stop some. I'm sure if this site was this full of "gosugamers > tl" spam threads you would clean it up quick. On this planet it is likely you will always have a thousand excuses to reinforce patriarchy, many of them based on "efficiency" (a.k.a. "it doesn't really bother me so I'll never get motivated enough to do something about it"), but I've yet to see a valid one.
Have you seen the blog / strategy forum / sc2 clean-up attempts?
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On December 08 2008 06:45 yoshtodd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:37 Descent wrote:
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
So in a nutshell, the majority of the community doesn't agree with the rule "no sexism", and enforcing it would result in a possibly big loss of members? It's just interesting imagining if the topic were racism instead of sexism.
There are a lot of people of different race on the forums, I can see racism being a big deal. However, there are very few women that we know of, so sexism isn't that big of a deal. That's basically how it goes.
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On December 08 2008 06:41 sith wrote:
BTW just so you know, most people are joking about sexism, what with all the back in the kitchen talk and all that. A lot of the responses in this thread are just because it's THIS thread, if you asked a lot of people in a serious situation in real life what their opinions about gender equality were the responses would be a lot different.
Speaking of that, get back in the kitchen.
Oh well! I'm glad we got the taken care of! It's just a joke! I thought you really wanted that sandwich and I was wondering how she was supposed to send it to you through the internet. I'm also glad that while womyn aren't allowed on the internet, people don't use words like "bitch" and "hottie" in offline conversations ever.
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On December 08 2008 06:47 sith wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:45 yoshtodd wrote:On December 08 2008 06:37 Descent wrote:
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
So in a nutshell, the majority of the community doesn't agree with the rule "no sexism", and enforcing it would result in a possibly big loss of members? It's just interesting imagining if the topic were racism instead of sexism. There are a lot of people of different race on the forums, I can see racism being a big deal. However, there are very few women that we know of, so sexism isn't that big of a deal. That's basically how it goes.
There are very few women that we know of, BECAUSE sexism isn't that big of a deal.
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On December 08 2008 06:47 sith wrote:
There are a lot of people of different race on the forums, I can see racism being a big deal. However, there are very few women that we know of, so sexism isn't that big of a deal. That's basically how it goes.
So if we knew the forum were monoracial, then racism wouldn't be a big deal?
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Personally I find it really stupid that there's a bunch of blogs where guys ask how to pick up girls (or even talk to them), then there's a million posts after the OP filled with misogynist trash. I keep reading them because it's like I'm passing a carwreck and as much as I want to look away, I can't.
I mean I half expect everyone is being a douchebag on purpose because everyone is sick of "Hey guys, how do I ask this girl out?" threads. But it's hard to tell who is joking and who is being serious.
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On December 08 2008 06:47 pachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
Kalynn makes a valid point, its just for efficiency reasons we can't enforce such a policy.
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
There wouldn't be as much to have to stop if you tried to stop some. I'm sure if this site was this full of "gosugamers > tl" spam threads you would clean it up quick. On this planet it is likely you will always have a thousand excuses to reinforce patriarchy, many of them based on "efficiency" (a.k.a. "it doesn't really bother me so I'll never get motivated enough to do something about it"), but I've yet to see a valid one. Have you seen the blog / strategy forum / sc2 clean-up attempts?
I admit I haven't but I think the more important thing is not that anyone who says anything hurtful is censored but that no one forgets that there are real people on the other side of the intertubes and that if you see an idea worth defending that you shouldn't just ignore it because it doesn't affect you directly. That's why even saying it's impossible to improve gender relations is patriarchal is because constant deferral to the status quo is what allows it to continue without having to contend with viable, better alternatives. Nobody is going to stop choosing to say hurtful things if they are being told that they will inevitably do so, that it is their nature. They will be propelled by such statements.
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On December 08 2008 06:50 yoshtodd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:47 sith wrote:
There are a lot of people of different race on the forums, I can see racism being a big deal. However, there are very few women that we know of, so sexism isn't that big of a deal. That's basically how it goes. So if we knew the forum were monoracial, then racism wouldn't be a big deal?
It would be a big deal (to me and most people), but it wouldn't get brought up because unless you felt strongly enough that it was wrong, there would be no incentive to go against it, as you yourself isn't being offended.
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On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
WHAT.
Are you kidding me? KALYNN is obviously the troll here, refusing to answer a simple fucking question.
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On December 08 2008 06:15 H_ wrote:
This is a MarklarMarklar thread
LOLOL so true so true
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On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman.
I....I'm.... not sure i understand.
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On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand.
HAHA WIN
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EPT
