A buff to BC could be just what this matchup needs, since buffing them would hardly break any other MU (corruptors and vikings counter them hardcore).
[Ladder] How are most TvPs won? - Page 3
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
A buff to BC could be just what this matchup needs, since buffing them would hardly break any other MU (corruptors and vikings counter them hardcore). | ||
Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On January 22 2011 00:15 Alejandrisha wrote:macro games are usually won by the terran when they make a transition to thor or tank/ghost/bio instead of just staying on mmm + viking for too long I'd like to see an example of this as my personal experience is that it's just impossible. You can play mech style (like goody for example), but you have to actually open mech to do it (1/1/1 openers work great). Playing bio in the early stages of the game and later transitioning won't work as the protoss will already be on the advance and won't just let you make a severe investment like transitioning into mech. He will just kill you while you desperately try to get the 3-4 factories you need for mechplay at this stage of the game up and running. | ||
Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On January 22 2011 00:10 Bagi wrote: I'm a 2.5k master terran myself with about 200 points in my bonus pool, FWIW. Protoss is definately my most difficult matchup at the moment. I usually go with the FE + MMM build, add vikings and ghosts and try to kill the toss as fast as possible. That seems to be the standard among the "pro" people as well. I have to agree with the guy above that its kinda ridiculous as it stands right now - the protoss can sit in his base and get his ball of death, and you HAVE to abuse a hole in his defense to be able to compete. Sometimes I get lucky... But way too often I dont and end up losing to attack-move colossi + gate units. Once its 3-4 bases and the templars join the fight, its pretty much impossible unless you can get some perfect drops and wreck his economy. I personally consider the matchup kinda broken. The only reason Toss sits in their base and waits for their death ball is because they have trouble dealing with early/mid game Terran, if Toss could apply as much pressure as Terran could during early and mid game then trust me, they would, hell I would also, but right now it feels like if you don't have storm or get hit with one bad marauder drop then everything falls apart. Anyway, from watching HuK's stream how Terrans beat him in late game macro battles, with pretty good effectiveness is just building a TON of marauders (with some ghosts and marines) against Storm and hitting multiple places on the map, forcing him to use gas spawning templars everywhere vs cost efficient marauders or switching to bio mech with Thors/Blueflame Hellions. | ||
Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On January 22 2011 00:28 Alejandrisha wrote: You don't need 3-4 factories. Try 1 or 2 tech labbed facs once you get on 3 bases. for example, on xel naga t can take a pretty greedy 3rd which usually goes up before the protoss gets his on even terms. once you mule that up you can easily throw down a tech lab on your idle factory and pump 2 or 3 thors. i'm not saying mass thor i'm saying a couple up front for the charge zels/colossus lasers to auto focus. Again, i challenge you to actually show me that it's possible. I have tried to do so numerous times and i have failed every time. Also i watch a lot of pro replays and i never saw this kind of mech transition being effectively used. 2-3 thors is just a joke at that stage of the game. This is what will happen when the battle occurs:he will throw up storms behind your thors, forcing your bio to run away and easily pick off your thors that are now alone and too slow to run away. For mech to work, you need sieged tanks as support (the more the merrier) and your just not get the neccessary numbers out in time from 1-2 factories. | ||
JasonX
Korea (South)90 Posts
2 rax, 1 with reactor, other with tech lab, Pump marine/marauder and get upgrades. Get 1 raven, and make2 banshees. WHen your ready push in and attack. Use banshees to snipe Sentries/colossi/immortals. Use PDD to absorb stalker damage, use Stim+micro to kite zealots. Reinforce with scvs if you'd like or expand if attack fails. it should do significant damage (Protoss most likely has to pull probes to defend. | ||
Deltablazy
Canada580 Posts
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love.less
United Kingdom293 Posts
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murkk
Canada154 Posts
1) Timing attack against protoss at 8:30 mark (2 medivacs out, stim complete, big bio) 2) Protoss attacks me early and I stomp them. Then I expand, do a drop or two and mass mmm. | ||
NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
On January 22 2011 00:39 JasonX wrote: PoltPrimes 11 minute - SEMI ALL IN push. 2 rax, 1 with reactor, other with tech lab, Pump marine/marauder and get upgrades. Get 1 raven, and make2 banshees. WHen your ready push in and attack. Use banshees to snipe Sentries/colossi/immortals. Use PDD to absorb stalker damage, use Stim+micro to kite zealots. Reinforce with scvs if you'd like or expand if attack fails. it should do significant damage (Protoss most likely has to pull probes to defend. You can push a minute later and get cloak with your 2 banshees, and not have to pull SCVs, just marauder, marine, raven and cloaked banshee. I find the push comes slightly later but not as all in. I usually play ghost marine bio, 2 rax, reactor techlab, pump marines and 2 ghosts and 1 medivac and push with 23~ infantry and a medivac, expand behind push. I am not afraid to take the matchup late game although if they open collosus and switch to HT and do drops, etc the match up is significantly harder lategame.. As for the bronze players who said "a nerf needs to be done so T is weaker at the start.." are a little lost. Not only would 4 gate be too strong but TvZ would be so broken. | ||
CurLy[]
United States759 Posts
So simple and so effective, 4 marauders and 1 medivac requires sooo many more protoss units to take down | ||
NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
sometimes picked apart by harass style with banshee/blue hellion which doesn't outright kill the protoss but in the later stages of the game they just don't have enough It's possible to do some great damage to the Protoss with banshees but it's risky from my limited experience. If you manage to take down the forge and robo quickly and prevent another from being built, then, as long as he doesn't have any serving observers, you're golden, as long as he doesn't go for your base. But better prots are likely to spawn an observer first thing they do with their robo, especially since it produces colossi anyway and observers are dirt cheap post-patch. This is generally why I sometimes delay the banshee push and strike when I have four and at any rate at least two. That way I won't die so easily and will be able to gun down some buildings. Generally, this is a bit like harassing the Orc in Warcraft 3: you basically go after the burrows to supply-block him, the rest doesn't count that much. With Prot, you have the advantage of shutting down some buildings too if you're lucky. And he can't repair, so if you hang around long enough, you can finish off some buildings. He'd need to be very good to protect everything he has. Generally, a lot depends on how fast you're on his feet and how fast he is. If you pull off the build flawlessly as in without wasting a second (not getting distracted by harass or scout, no delays in SCV production, no delays with gas, mules the instant 50 energy hits, tech lab already farmed and factory removed after starport is built, hitting all hotkeys without a second delay etc.), this can be effective, especially if you execute the raid in the same manner you did the build. The weakness is always in what Day9 says: if you see cheese, just go and kill them (not verbatim). | ||
TomSturgis_
United States20 Posts
On January 21 2011 23:03 heyyouyesyou wrote: Your really can finish off the protoss at the late game but you can force them to gg by keeping their robo/stargate unit count low. When the protoss techs he techs hard and the futuristic war machine of another planet are scary. Colossus, void ray, phenoix, dts, and high templar all viable and scary as hell options. My advice is to constantly apply pressure, or dont let him get pass a certain number of units. s. This is right. The reasoning behind it is that (i think i remember qxc saying this) bio is better in smaller numbers. Take a couple marines and mauraders and go kill some stalkers. If all your units die and you kill some of his then thats a good exchange for you because your bio works better in small numbers and protoss needs large numbers. | ||
azn_dude1
162 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
If T sends a reaper, it's 90% a FE. | ||
superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On January 22 2011 00:22 Lurk wrote: I'd like to see an example of this as my personal experience is that it's just impossible. You can play mech style (like goody for example), but you have to actually open mech to do it (1/1/1 openers work great). Playing bio in the early stages of the game and later transitioning won't work as the protoss will already be on the advance and won't just let you make a severe investment like transitioning into mech. He will just kill you while you desperately try to get the 3-4 factories you need for mechplay at this stage of the game up and running. You don't need to add in Thors, but you should have Factory units to support your Bio in big confrontational fights. If the P has no Colossai, just add in some Blue Flame Helions/Tanks along with standard Maurader/Medivac and you'll be able to fight evenly with P late game. Alot of people here always cry about how T can't fight P late game but don't realize that they have alot of good abilities that really cripple P late game, such as PDD and EMP. | ||
iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
Check out NaDa vs oGsMC on Shakuras Plateau from the GSL season 4. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Alot of people here always cry about how T can't fight P late game but don't realize that they have alot of good abilities that really cripple P late game, such as PDD and EMP. Not to mention that seeker missile if used properly can annihilate the protoss deathball. | ||
Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
Alot of people here always cry about how T can't fight P late game but don't realize that they have alot of good abilities that really cripple P late game, such as PDD and EMP. Rofl, you don't think terrans have aren't doing this? Every TvP where a 3rd is involved terran should have EMP. Late game DT's basically force a raven. | ||
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