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Ok, I happen to be the only one in the world who believes zvp favors P. Basically, I suck at this mu and the only way I win is when can push forward with ling-lurk(hydra) or if I catch the toss offgaurd and have mutas before he's got a shitload of cannons/drags/archons.
I think the basic question comes down to this: When can I expand and how many more expands do I need to have to keep up, unit count wise. This is mostly because if I got my nat and toss got his nat, a toss just runs over me like I'm not even there.
And one more thing, I got no clue whatsoever to do vs a toss who goes fast-exp cannons and moves on to mass units from there. Lurks are always seen and shot at by cannons, therefor useless and mutas are equally useless vs a lot of cannons because they die to fucking fast, and lings usually need to get around nexi, gateways and other stuff before they reach regular placed cannons and therefor are also screwed.
I recon most toss players find this post to be just too extremely weird and possibly just wrong, but still, I require help
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what opening do you use the most?
if a toss expos, id much rather try to prevent any further expos than killing his fast cannoned nexus. Keep a tab on his military production and base what you do off that. The idea of playing passively is being able to build up enough to stop his army from the time he leaves his base until he gets to yours.
i just realised how little detail you put into your post, add some and ill add some more to mine
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My opening is usually 11-12 hatch, pool, around 13 gas and play from there. 100 = speed, another 100 gas = lair.
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if you dont use a lot of lings early game then dont upgrade speed so early for one.
the reason why you are getting bulldozed so easily is because you dont allow yourself the ability to out macro the toss because you are getting your lair so fast. Add another hatch into your natural when toss cannon expos (dont get your expo cannoned when they fast expo like gese did to me in wgt )
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Zerg i have been playing in guerrilla wars(like small tourney in clan channels) always go two hat in main. I usually get raped by zergs who don't let me expo. They usually starts with a massive zergling push. Then they expo (third hatchery) and put a shitload of zerglings in front of my main. Then I counter that with speed zealots and archons, and while i'm pushing the zerg to his base i exp. Then the zerg again push me back with lurkers or massive hydras, and while he's pushing me they usually take two more exp. Then they usually drop on my nat cliff with lurks and some hydras to kill cannon. THey do that on purpose to make me waste all my storms while they mass exp and mass units. After stopping all that bullshit, i go out to try to kill the zerg but...+_+ zerglings and ultras from all directions -_-;;;;...I just hate this situation -_-;;; So i got so pissed-_-;;and played 8 hours a days for like two weeks only against zergs in priv channels-_-;;
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Yeah ZvP is hard for intermediate players sometimes because they learn to tech fast against Zerg for mutas and Terran for Lurks that the idea of not teching fir a little bit and poweringm which is how the Zerg beats the Protoss, is foreign. Just build up a good economy before teching and you will find it easier I think.
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On February 25 2004 08:29 CrazedZergling . wrote: Yeah ZvP is hard for intermediate players sometimes because they learn to tech fast against Zerg for mutas and Terran for Lurks that the idea of not teching fir a little bit and poweringm which is how the Zerg beats the Protoss, is foreign. Just build up a good economy before teching and you will find it easier I think.
I like zergs who don't use zerglings..lol
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Lately i started to play 12 pool 11 gas, 2 more drones and expo to natural right before pool is ready. This leaves me with 2 larvas and almost immediately 100 min to make lings and i make only lings until 17/17. I mine just 104 gas and then i put the drones back to mins. When i am out of larvas i put speed and later when i have mins 3rd hatch. This works fine most of the times because most tosses don't rush when they see first pool, but when some of them rush i end up losing. Is it normal? 2 gates is better than 12 pool with gas or its just my shitty micro? Do you think its better to make 2nd hatch inside base and the 3rd to expo?
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you suck because you are stupid of all the races, zerg requires the most intelligence you need to know what to do, all the time wasting 3 larva early can lose you the game (15 minutes later). imagine perfect play is a box. burn the box and think about what you are doing for fucks sakes.
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On February 25 2004 13:51 Casper... wrote: you suck because you are stupid of all the races, zerg requires the most intelligence you need to know what to do, all the time wasting 3 larva early can lose you the game (15 minutes later). imagine perfect play is a box. burn the box and think about what you are doing for fucks sakes.
damn~you are too harsh t.t
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it's the fucking internet
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vs fast EXP a good counter is lurker drop on ledge and hydra/lurk drop in main.
lurker contain and exp.
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delay toss money as much as possible else delay toss tech as much as possible else delay toss expo as much as possible else catch toss not ready for mutas if possible else force toss to deal with lurks else force toss to deal with you all over the map
bah that doesnt work. sorry for posting
edit: ok now ill add someuseful comments. first, casper makes good posts. second, try searching the broodwar forum and this one. third, i am surprised ppl say that intermediate zergs learn to tech fast vs protoss because they tech fast vs zerg. i thought everyone knew that zvz was very much its own matchup to be played very differently from others. zvt zvp zvz all need to be thought of seperately, the only thing that goes between them are the raw fundamentals, not the strategies, because you will want drastically differently timed units in each matchup and the reactions are all drastically different.
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On February 25 2004 14:07 Casper... wrote: it's the fucking internet I don't see why insulting me, or behaving very different on the internet should be 'normal' or 'cool' or whatever you think it is.
And the two posts you made in this topic pretty much state that at least I'm more intelligent than you are simply because I don't act different online and I don't make stupid insults or useless posts T.T
If you don't know how to add anything to a discussion, then please, shut up and or stay out of it.
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Mmm..just keep the protoss from expanding...+_+;;
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On February 26 2004 05:03 FreeZEternal wrote: Mmm..just keep the protoss from expanding...+_+;; I try, I fail I try again, I fail better
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On February 26 2004 07:58 Fedaykin wrote: Show nested quote +On February 26 2004 05:03 FreeZEternal wrote: Mmm..just keep the protoss from expanding...+_+;; I try, I fail I try again, I fail better
Try many times and you will get better.+_+
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
stop giving hints to these annoying zergs plesae, i want to keep my small protoss chances to win
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On February 26 2004 08:19 Carnac wrote: stop giving hints to these annoying zergs plesae, i want to keep my small protoss chances to win
I'm toss too..+_+;;..I found most non-korean zergs users to play zerg too conservatively+_+;;Zergs must be aggressive against toss!!!
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