EPT[M][T] Haunted Mansion 3 - Page 87
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Damdred
15669 Posts
It sort of does me. Calix was his first scum read couldn't get them lynched. Tries to frame people for,things even though it's clear threatens doing them and keeps pushing shade for meh reasons and,ignoring tw even though he's been somewhat against him,but not,enough to,directly push him. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Vivax
21691 Posts
On September 09 2016 09:24 Tumblewood wrote: there is one thing I have on Shapelog that makes me feel really smart. I think he is town because of his setup spec early game, because it shows that he is genuinely interested and not doing it for town cred because setup spec is generally something people scumread you for. not 100% but I'm sticking with it. other people: vivax is probably town just for tone and care-ness calix looks town and NU looks scum to me. even though their entrances were the same from a surface-level point of view, calix feels more genuine and helpful. Damdred interests me but I do not yet have feelings toward his alignment On September 10 2016 06:46 Tumblewood wrote: grack is not as impressive as I once remembered him. demoted from probable town to null superbia has 6 pages so I am skimming and although he hasn't said anything smart yet I don't think he is scum. still see no reason to townread him though so slight townlean This looks pretty bad and it stuck out to me almost immediately reading his filter now. Cause the reasoning he applies to shape fits for superbia like a pair of dutch wood sandals. Except superbia had like 6 pages of setup spec that looked like he was having a seizure like some nutso genius a la rainman (even tho I didn't really buy it cause it didn't yield the same results as for a nutso genius). I'd define this as "not being faithful towards his own reasons for reads". But don't really want to call him scum just for this when there's the chance we have a scumHF on the loose. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9832 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:14 Vivax wrote: This looks pretty bad and it stuck out to me almost immediately reading his filter now. Cause the reasoning he applies to shape fits for superbia like a pair of dutch wood sandals. Except superbia had like 6 pages of setup spec that looked like he was having a seizure like some nutso genius a la rainman (even tho I didn't really buy it cause it didn't yield the same results as for a nutso genius). I'd define this as "not being faithful towards his own reasons for reads". But don't really want to call him scum just for this when there's the chance we have a scumHF on the loose. This is a good post. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:00 Holyflare wrote: because only good people have commented on it Wow I'm honored | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:07 Damdred wrote: Hf does an nu/tw team make sense to you? It sort of does me. Calix was his first scum read couldn't get them lynched. Tries to frame people for,things even though it's clear threatens doing them and keeps pushing shade for meh reasons and,ignoring tw even though he's been somewhat against him,but not,enough to,directly push him. [*]I scum-read TW throughout Day 1. [*]Calix town-read me to the max, it doesn't make sense for me to kill her. [*]She was my first scum-read for a short bit of time. [*]I'm not ignoring TW. He is ignoring me. [*]Calix told you how obvious my scum-meta is. If she town-read me so hard this time around, you should trust her and go along with it. [*]Most importantly, I am town, so that scumteam is impossible. | ||
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Vivax
21691 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:19 Holyflare wrote: all I see is tumblewood town reads, pathetic mafia play Nha he could be mafia, but after the beating you handed down last game (which wasn't hard admit it) you are on the TLSA watch list this game. And TW got lynched that game as well. If I repeated that course of events twice in a row I'd feel really idiotic. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
either way I'm a good mafia player that's nothing new and I don't really care if you admit you're just afraid but I'm not arguing people into oblivion I'm trying to get people to actually discuss mafia reads here | ||
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Shapelog
United States5184 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On September 11 2016 13:39 Tumblewood wrote: Why Calix isn't scum First of all: It is best first to ignore the Tictock wagon/flip and to look at Calix's posting style. Look big picture. Calix posting entirely from a townie mindset. He has consistently put himself out there with his reads and has been unafraid to call out bullshit. He is willing to confront people, inquisitive, and, above all, he is so clearly trying his hardest to help town. + Show Spoiler [Some examples of what I mean] + On September 09 2016 07:31 Calix wrote: It's a PRONOUN. Bloody Hell, if you're going to start a tunnel based on this, you're going to be useless. That wasn't a misrep because I was using it to say that your point sucked, not to discredit you. Scum can only manipulate LWs twice. The game is going to go on for more than two nights. There is going to be at least one accurate LW in there, no? Don't care to look. Where did I imply this again? I forget. The point is that we can't trust the messages too much but that it's still a good idea for the dead town to try and communicate with the rest of the thread anyhow. (trying to post correct information > not trying at all) I'm not sure how saying "hey, here are some ways that the town could try to communicate info via their LWs" is a bad thing. I also didn't say "LWs are reliable" and openly said that we shouldn't trust them...which is something that you note in the rest of your post. I'm not seeing how you're concluding half the things that you are from my posts. On September 09 2016 08:11 Calix wrote: Can you cut the crap with referring to Eggy every game? Nobody here knows who you're talking about and it's petty. Pointing out fallacies =/= scum-hunting. Going "oh you misrepped me and made an appeal to emotion" isn't the same thing as detailed analysis. Vivax's post that I responded to is a MUCH better example of legit scum-hunting even if he's wrong. Maybe try emulating that instead of going "boom! Found a scum tell, gg no re" I don't agree with Damdred that he's scum-hunting. He claims to be using POE (with town-reads) but that is not the same thing imo. Otherwise not sure what he would be referring to. On September 09 2016 09:31 Calix wrote: "Doing X gets you scum-read so anyone who does X is town because scum don't want to risk the negative attention" - Isn't this argument based around WIFOM? I don't know what this site's view towards setup spec is but I consider it NAI. It's commonplace on my home site. I don't disagree with the conclusion but I dislike the reasoning. Your NU scum-read doesn't make sense. Why would the fact that I 'feel more genuine and helpful' have an impact on what NU's alignment is? You just used someone else to give a scum-read on another player. You say our entrances are the same on the 'surface level' so how do they differ underneath that then? So Damdred's a null? Not sure why you included him - why does he interest you? On September 11 2016 00:38 Calix wrote: I was asking for a case for why they thought you were scum because things like "his cases aren't as good as they are when town" aren't something I can give an opinion on because I don't know your meta. I've also explained my thought process in regards to TT which is clearly shown in my filter. I initially scum-read him, then had doubts about his static train and the people voting him and then I switched my vote after reading fuba's filter. That's also a horrible characterisation of my filter. I had scum-read Grack/ TT/ TW together earlier, then revised that when I read fuba's filter and my town-reads aren't 'wishy-washy' whatsoever. I stated who they were and why and that was that. You haven't explained how fuba is town as of yet. In fact, NOBODY has. Why is everyone just ignoring him? Also, she slipped when she talked about setup spec, saying that town had PRs. Someone who rolled town would know which town roles are in the game. That's the first thing they would check. Additionally, her LW talk seemed coming from a mafia trying to appear like he's helping town perspective. It in no way helped town. If anything, her proposition would have given mafia more freedom to frame those LWs. btw, I will not post a LW. Any LW attached to my death is a framed one. There's also the meta points that make her 100% mafia in my eyes. I will list them later if need be. @Calix, they're not the shitty meta-reads you usually get scum-read for i.e. being much less active than usual. They're actual things you've only said as scum and will only say as scum. I didn't say town had PRs to begin with. I already explained what I meant there...? You have no meta points on me. It's impossible for you to have any because you've only read ONE scum game of mine from FIVE MONTHS AGO. One game =/= meta. Again, you have no idea what my scum meta is. You're too focused on 'scum slips' which aren't scummy so I expect anything I say will be ignored by you. Honestly. On September 11 2016 03:25 Calix wrote: I answered your questions. Make better ones next time that don't require abstract answers. Your attempt at painting my response as evasive has been noted. (there are more but no one would read them all anyway) "But Tumblewood," you ask, "how can you ignore that Calix had TMI with Tictock?" Ah ha ha haaa. What a silly question. Calix didn't have TMI at all. Right here is where Calix first shows wariness of the wagon on TT. Keep in mind that before this Calix was scumreading TT. On September 11 2016 01:55 Calix wrote: Good question. I don't have a fucking clue. Grackaroni is looking townier the more he posts; nobody else scum-reads fuba; I town-read Vivax, you, Superbia, Palmar (shitty town-read but still); TT's train is shitty and if he's scum, then the scum are doing a horrendous job at diverting it (hardly anyone has questioned it which makes me wary)...I'm starting to feel like a lot of the scum are among the lurkers and I don't know how to sort them. Either that, or they are the sort who are good at looking townie on Day 1. He cites how easily the wagon formed (which is intelligent and indicative of + Show Spoiler [cough cough] + scum supporting a mislynch And right here is the dichotomy that everyone should have seen: On September 11 2016 02:31 Calix wrote: What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't copy-paste shit and why the actual fuck would anyone copy a post made in a SCUM GAME? I don't know. I just think that Tictock is going to end in a mislynch because nobody is doing anything to stop his train. Grackaroni spent more time explaining how his posts weren't defending Tictock than he actually did diverting the train and I know I am town. That can ONLY MEAN TWO THINGS: 1. He is town. 2. The entire scum team are so inactive that they don't give a fuck about stopping a lynch on their team mate. Option 1 is infinitely more likely but I'm not sure how to stop it. I'll going to reread Holyflare given that he's the only alternative at the moment and I've yet to read his filter properly. I don't really town-read him but I don't scum-read him much either. Since I town-read you, your thoughts on him? He continues for the rest of the day to support his read and try to convince town of why they should get off TT. + Show Spoiler [More support he gives this read] + On September 11 2016 03:02 Calix wrote: The whole "scum could be pushing another lynch" argument doesn't really check out with the current votes. I see nobody trying to make a push for someone who isn't TT. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and we end up CFD'ing within like, the last half an hour or so but right now? Nah. On September 11 2016 03:02 Calix wrote: Also there are more people defending the "TT is scum who his team mates don't want to risk defending" angle than there are people actually defending TT, lmao. On September 11 2016 03:16 Calix wrote: If both questions are WIFOM then how am I supposed to answer them exactly...? We don't KNOW what the scum are thinking. I am just going to the simplest conclusion of "TT is town and the scum are allowing him to get MLed" My theory only assumes that TT is town and the scum are not trying to defend him. Any other theories assume he is scum and that scum are using WIFOM in their strategies. On September 11 2016 03:48 Calix wrote: I don't. What I was saying there is that there is enough doubt about TT's alignment that scum have room to make a more coordinated defense of TT/ attack of someone else. And I don't see why they wouldn't because bussing is a horrendous scum move. Although if I'm to trust TW, you guys actually bus on D1? wtf On September 11 2016 04:28 Calix wrote: I'm not saying sheeping is bad, but when an entire train is almost entirely sheep-votes, there's a problem. Hardly anyone else has managed to get anywhere near the number of sheep votes as TT has. "guys does anyone else notice how many people wanted to sheep that wagon? isn't that a little weird to you all?" I recommend especially that you read the third quote in the spoiler. The important thing to get from this is that Calix did not have TMI by picking the correct answer out of many equally valid possibilities; he picked the simplest, most logical answer from several possibilities and was correct. How long are we going to pretend that it is scummy to be skeptical of a wagon because it formed with little resistance? That is a major trait of a mislynch. The following quote doesn't give me anything that overtly proves Calix didn't have TMI, but the vibes from it are very good. On September 11 2016 05:17 Calix wrote: I mean I can see the "scum bussing their more useless ally" as a thing but the only person who is trying to take the credit for the TT lynch is HF and if you think HF is bussing then voting HF makes more sense than voting TT by proxy. (I know you are voting HF, I am just talking generally) "all roads lead to TT being a poor vote" This right here is the last quote I'm going to give you. If this doesn't convince you that Calix didn't have TMI and was instead a townie being smart, nothing will. On September 11 2016 05:24 Calix wrote: "If I'm mafia" - Stopped reading because self-meta on your scum game is useless when you are obviously aware of it and can change how you act accordingly. And since I'm the person who is hardcore defending TT, that parenthesis part could be a subtle pocketing attempt from you. I don't think I can do anything about TT's train. Nobody seems to find anything I say worth listening to. The last line screams of trying to get people off the wagon. This was clearly not to get town cred but rather to prevent a mislynch. Ok... But what about scum? You have the energy to town hunt, so why don't you scum hunt maybe? On September 11 2016 14:06 Grackaroni wrote: I just came up with an AMAZING new Grackpot theory. I don't really want to go into it right now, so stay tuned before the day post for the new iteration of Grack reads. HF was phase 1. Now I've officially moved on to phase 2. And 2 is greater than 1 Let's just say on a scale of 1-Koshi I feel about this much: But why are you saying this, do you ask? I want to be pissed off at Grack not doing anything. But my god I cannot. It catches me funny that Shapelog spent a lot of time defending Skynx. However he did say that he preferred having a conversation to 'help catch up' or something like that so probably not AI but I'll note it for future reference. Wasn't really me defending him, it was me giving my view on the post NU made, and about Skynx Alignment. The reason why i am good at town, is that I am able to bring myself into town discussions. Outside of that. I have to do these long catch up posts, to get A) caught up, but also B) to understand anything. Its hard for me to really do anything if i don't do these. I also realized half way through that you died. So, and since my posts don't apparently get read like they should, all the other people can learn the shape way. I lost some posts i commented on due to accidental cloosing of the tab. On September 11 2016 23:46 fuba wrote: Morning. Got a few minutes before work. To answer NU's questions (paraphrasing, on my phone): What are my thoughts on the calix discussion? I think she probably could have defended tt as either alignment. I disagree that starting the defense because of VCA is accurate, though. I don't see how 3v2v2v1v1v6-no-votes (generalizing, can't look at the vote list right now) indicates a lack of defense. There were other wagons trying throughout the day to get onto someone other than tt. Once the votes were skewed to what they became at EoD, I might have gotten concerned, but she was on it much earlier than that. Might lean slight scum for that, but I also recall thinking that many of her posts just felt like frustrated town. Might be able to find some and quote them later. At the moment I'm considering her town. Why did I vote for tt? The narrative HF originally laid out made sense to me, and then tt disappearing after it just reinforced it. At the end of the day, I could still see scum behaving as he had, so my vote didn't change. I didn't see any reason that HF exaggerating his sureness was indicative of the case being bad. Though iirc he later mentions that he no longer had a scum read (or maybe it was just a weaker scum read? Would have to look it up) on tt and was lynching for information at that point. That bugs me. Mostly because I'm not sure how much reasonably confident information we got from the lynch. Maybe that'll come to me when I reread EoD. Who are my scum reads? I'll have to get back to you on that one. My two yesterday were you and tt, which is more that I usually have d1 XD. One was proven wrong, the other I'm currently believing is town. Have to dive some filters and probably reread EoD to develop some more. I also have some thoughts on TW that are almost completely unrelated to this game, and actually take place in an obs QT for another game that he wasn't in as far as I remember, but there are similarities to this game and I was wondering what other people's thoughts were on it. In one of my previous town games I made a case on a suspected scum being town. In the obs QT, it was declared that I was town for doing so by most people present, even if they were unsure of me before. Does anyone feel that this could apply to TW in this game? I could try to find the game, but would have to wait until a few hours after start of day. On one hand, I understand that scum have an easy time town reading people (if they're town) because they know they're town. They know it's from a town perspective because everything has to be. On the other, why defend a high content poster once the thread starts swinging slightly against them if your goal is to get them killed? The ability to defend town is greater, but the reason for doing it seems far less so. I know that these scenarios assume tw scum and calix town, but I'm leaving out the possibility that they're both scum because that would be a hard defense of a scum buddy. Which I guess could happen, but it doesn't feel likely? The scenario feels like either both town or one scum. I needed to ask because it'll be on my mind until it's resolved (think NU's lynchbait comment). Bold are flip floppy when I read it. TW past game I have commented on. Interested to see your scum reads. On September 12 2016 00:38 Vivax wrote: I'd like to see what the science was. No one actually voting TW after the slip might have led Palmar to some conclusions as well. I'm not sure I buy he doesn't have any just cause nobody followed him, so at least let's hear the hypothetical version "what if somebody actually fueled a TT counterwagon", what would Palmar's conclusions have been on people following or not following him. My thoughts exactly. On September 12 2016 05:28 Grackaroni wrote: Phase 2: Super cocky Grackalicious game is now totally solved. Get on my level, please - edition. (In all seriousness I could still be a huge noob, but I've played scum with both of these fuckers and I'm totally probably right.) First: The rehash for the clinically lazy. If you are not named Palmar you can probably skip over this part. (To be fair I haven't read a lot too, but I didn't ignore anyone trying to direct me to their lynch.) For the non-lazy, this should be a concise summary that shows why HF is mafia. The thing that truly solidified the HF read for me was the way he was arguing with me yesterday. The way that he tried to nit pick on any little discrepancy he could find to discredit me gave me war flashbacks to the survivor series mafia game I was talking about earlier. I looked through Onegu 2 again and he didn't do this when I accused him then as town. Now for the Tumblewood part: After the lynch I was starting to realize that it's really unlikely that all 3 mafia voted for TT. I am lumping the Palmar vote as a vote for TT because even though he switched he didn't actually make any effort to lynch a non-TT person. Then I was reading through Shapelog's filter and he was making a lot of good points. Therefore I am crediting Shapelog with the assist on this one. At first I was thinking, the only person being reasonable in this game is Tumblewood. But then it hit me. THE ONLY PERSON BEING REASONABLE IN THIS GAME IS TUMBLEWOOD! Since when is Tumblewood ever fucking reasonable? When he's bussing! Nobody else in the game has been able to figure out HF yet. I guarantee that if these two rolled scum together they are going to bus heavily. Plus whenever TW has tried to put out a non-HF scum read this game it's seemed bad to me. There's one where he thinks NU could be scum from tone that he rescinds because he can't understand him. There's another on Damdred that he rescinds after Damdred posts a super useless list. And then there's a third on Super for not voting him instead of TT when Super has been calling both TW and TT mafia together. Plus HF is actually right that writing a town case on Calix right now is a weird thing to do. So that's where I'm at right now. The third is probably somebody super boring like Damdred or Palmar. Head Bang. Tumblewood part is meh. As scum that is when he is reasonable. But as town as well, he is much more resonable then he is right now. Hence my problum with his play. Him not talking to me after I brought up the meta points, the fixation with Super due to his past games voting record, His Tumblewood vs. the World post, Cal. Town case. All to name a few. Have to stop because of Storms. Hopfully be back either tomorrow morning, or late tonight if it passes. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
this dude has put a lot more effort into this game and actually posted a whole wall of text on why somebody should be TOWN and that person got shot That's a great remark. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
and also scott trusts me thanks to his last will so I figured out his message A++ scott | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:37 Holyflare wrote: i spent fucking forever figuring out he was actually talking to me You agree with the scum-team he proposed? | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:50 Holyflare wrote: he didn't propose the scum team at all Hmm, why would he talk about a cone-hat (Shapelog's avatar), Vienna (Vivax is Austrian), and Puleum (Plamar reference?) then? | ||
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Vivax
21691 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:53 NeverUnlucky wrote: Hmm, why would he talk about a cone-hat (Shapelog's avatar), Vienna (Vivax is Austrian), and Puleum (Plamar reference?) then? He said I'm forcing town to wear dunce caps I think. More or less saying that anyone listening to me is an idiot. I think | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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