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On September 25 2015 02:21 TimeSpiral wrote:
A few thoughts ...
- Shade Canceling Threshold and Animation Tell: If the Shade lasts 6 seconds, you can only cancel it within the first 4 seconds (don't know the exact timings now). If you cancel the Shade within the threshold, the Shade animation changes slightly to indicate that it will not transfer. As I've said earlier, this could be a good solution. It is worth testing.
On September 25 2015 02:21 TimeSpiral wrote:- Friendly Shading Only: The Shade cannot pass through hostile units. This seems like a no-brainer, right? I don't agree. IMO the game shouldn't give you further incentive to stay clumped and use F2. The best part about the shade, is that it gives P the same capability to spread enemies thin and harass multiple points, that T have had with the medivacs since WoL.
On September 25 2015 02:21 TimeSpiral wrote:- DPS Dampening: maybe activating the Shade, and transfering to the Shade location could impose a brief delay before the Adept could continue attacking. The fact that it can move, attack, and maybe instantly teleport at huge ranges, without missing a shot just seems like a bit much. Eh?
Unfortunately, these are design suggestions, and I think the design ship may have sailed already : / To me this sounds like a bad suggestion. Too many P units are already clunky or slow to respond, which negates micro. And lack of micro potential is exactly the reason why we end up with a-move units, after the balancing is done.
Edit: Just to make clear what I mean with the last point.
Just look at the Immortal or Voidray. Both of these units have a really long turning animation and low acceleration, which reduces the potential to increase their usefulness with kiting (micro). Now look at the Viking or the Banshee, which both have much faster acceleration and turning speed. You can do nice and for viewers potentially sweet looking micro with Vikings/Banshees. In comparison Immortals and Voidrays are just dull. I want Adepts to be exciting and micro intensive and not to be just smaller versions of the Immortal or Voidray.
Edit 2: If anything the shot animation should be looked at to make the unit more responsive. And after that is done, the suggestions made by Theo in the other thread should be tested.
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I really don't get the state of adepts right now. I had to come here and post... I know this is probably wrong, and I havent' posted in a few years even. But this game I just played was absolutely disgusting. I have no idea what to do. Yes I'm ranting, and I don't really care if anyone cares to watch this. But I need help with mass adept all-ins from protoss with warp prism. As you can see from the replay, I go straight to 3rax and pump units, getting stim asap and building marauders and marines as much as I can. Not only do I scan and see EXACTLY what he is doing, but I set up bunker at natural and in my main - I have units blocking all possible warp in slots. What does he do? Just teleports all his adepts ONTOP of my army. Literally just moves them onto my army. I don't think I slipped on macro whatsoever this game. Anyway, thats about it - here's the link if anyone wants to have a look and tell me what I did wrong or what I could do better.
Thanks,
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=14079979656661927729
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honestly, people keep doing the same shit and expect different results, not gonna happen guys, either you suck it up and accept that marines/marauders without stim or medivacs gets destroyed by adepts or you try other unit comps as an opener
has anybody tried no marines? or like very few and just straight ghosts + marauders? then add marines once you're close to getting stim/medivacs?
on the other hand, warp prism is getting nerfed so just wait for it and if you know your opponent is staying on 1 or 2 gaz with more than 6 gates then just all in on defense start bunkers in your base or w/e, just like you would vs a blink all in, and ghosts are really fucking good in tvp now, colossus are no longer a threat really
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The best results I get against 2 bases adept warpin, are with a rax gaz expand reactor into 2nd rax + ghost academy build: I have 2 ghosts and a bunch of marines when adept are warped in my base, and with decent micro, I just lose some scv. I'm always behind in term of eco after the first push but it s still better than just being dead
You need to skip reaper, and to ebay block too.
Then I blindly go for a Marines Marauders Ghost composition in mid game supported by liberators, no matter what the P does.
And yes you re right about ghost!
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On September 25 2015 05:29 BiiG-Fr wrote:The best results I get against 2 bases adept warpin, are with a rax gaz expand reactor into 2nd rax + ghost academy build: I have 2 ghosts and a bunch of marines when adept are warped in my base, and with decent micro, I just lose some scv. I'm always behind in term of eco after the first push but it s still better than just being dead You need to skip reaper, and to ebay block too. Then I blindly go for a Marines Marauders Ghost composition in mid game supported by liberators, no matter what the P does. And yes you re right about ghost!
hmmmmmmm I have seen now a couple comments about getting ghost out. I will have to try didnt think i would have enough time to get them out hmmm. been having trouble with the prism adepts too, and tried alot tanks mines marines. thought about ghost but thought to far, but will try no any timings or things i should know?
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ghosts doesn't take any longer than tanks to get out, I know TT1 keeps saying that every terran should just go CC first into 3 rax with ghosts, and just camp and macro until liberators, I tend to agree with him since it has the best odds of holding the WP shenanigans and well Terran pretty good past that point
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On September 25 2015 06:28 ROOTFayth wrote: ghosts doesn't take any longer than tanks to get out, I know TT1 keeps saying that every terran should just go CC first into 3 rax with ghosts, and just camp and macro until liberators, I tend to agree with him since it has the best odds of holding the WP shenanigans and well Terran pretty good past that point
CC first into Ghost ... hmmm. Lately I've been playing Ghost versus Toss, but merely out of frustration. 1rax Ghost with Cloak, save scans. If they don't respond correctly it's basically an auto-win. Micro intensive, but totally doable.
On September 25 2015 03:18 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 02:21 TimeSpiral wrote:
A few thoughts ...
- Shade Canceling Threshold and Animation Tell: If the Shade lasts 6 seconds, you can only cancel it within the first 4 seconds (don't know the exact timings now). If you cancel the Shade within the threshold, the Shade animation changes slightly to indicate that it will not transfer. As I've said earlier, this could be a good solution. It is worth testing. Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 02:21 TimeSpiral wrote:- Friendly Shading Only: The Shade cannot pass through hostile units. This seems like a no-brainer, right? I don't agree. IMO the game shouldn't give you further incentive to stay clumped and use F2. The best part about the shade, is that it gives P the same capability to spread enemies thin and harass multiple points, that T have had with the medivacs since WoL. Show nested quote +On September 25 2015 02:21 TimeSpiral wrote:- DPS Dampening: maybe activating the Shade, and transfering to the Shade location could impose a brief delay before the Adept could continue attacking. The fact that it can move, attack, and maybe instantly teleport at huge ranges, without missing a shot just seems like a bit much. Eh?
Unfortunately, these are design suggestions, and I think the design ship may have sailed already : / To me this sounds like a bad suggestion. Too many P units are already clunky or slow to respond, which negates micro. And lack of micro potential is exactly the reason why we end up with a-move units, after the balancing is done. Edit: Just to make clear what I mean with the last point. Just look at the Immortal or Voidray. Both of these units have a really long turning animation and low acceleration, which reduces the potential to increase their usefulness with kiting (micro). Now look at the Viking or the Banshee, which both have much faster acceleration and turning speed. You can do nice and for viewers potentially sweet looking micro with Vikings/Banshees. In comparison Immortals and Voidrays are just dull. I want Adepts to be exciting and micro intensive and not to be just smaller versions of the Immortal or Voidray. Edit 2: If anything the shot animation should be looked at to make the unit more responsive. And after that is done, the suggestions made by Theo in the other thread should be tested.
I agree that the friendly unit thing might not be a great idea, but not for the reasons you mention. Shading in the middle of a fight, while losing no DPS, is not comparable to multi-front drops. And if you tried to reposition troops in a frontal attack against Protoss with medivacs you're going to get stomped (unless Toss is being defensive, and there are FFs everywhere, that's different).
How about this: You can shade through hostiles, but you cannot transfer if your shade is touching a hostile. Better?
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Here is the build I use: http://www.sc2planner.com/?v=lotv#TaaoEaaoFdoDaacaoCoQiWoAoEfajiZaoFiYajiZaoJjoEiZafoPoCajiZamjiZaaaajiZm You get your 2nd ghost and 12 marines around 4:35 lotv time.
I use an ebay block version with my scv building the first depot, it prevents the protoss doing a nexus first BO on 2 spots map, force a zealot and delay a lot the push, but you have to delay yourself the 2nd rax.
With good emp, and a bunch of SCV you can deal with the adepts and the prism, anyway you will lose SCVs and there is no way to counter attack with this build because of pylon overcharge and delayed medivac tek. So the better follow up is to go for a greedy 3rd cc and aim for a MMG composition supported by liberators.
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I'm master level in the beta atm and some terrans open with a fast cyclone to deny warp prism with their long range attack.
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