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Allright, I don't wanna sound mad at all. I just wanna have some tips and advices.
But how can you counter this build with Terran?
I'm in LOTV beta at high platinum, and only struggling against Protoss very hard
Somehow I cannot get enough units with fast expand play, and Protoss can just go fast expand so safely to get the economic lead.
If its not adepts with warp prism play it usually transist to Oracle, so you gotta be prepared for that too.
I'm trying to play something like one rax expand, with ebay +1 weapon and 3rax follow up. This works decently on TvZ and TvT at my skill levels
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The unit will be nerfed in some way. Its stat is simply too good right now.
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The adept is unbalanced. It really is pretty simple. The unbalance not even beeing neccessary in the stats but the overall stats, costs and availability or combination with other units.
It is a great scout with little to no risk - walling against in in the current meta makes photon overcharge rushes or stalker (wall-destroying pressure) viable which makes the adept able to enter the base again. Its combination in terms of warpprism fast-warpin (my suggestion here is make the warpprism a faster warpin than a proxy pylon, but not as fast as it is now) and pick up range it becomes insanely strong and nearly impossible to defend without dying let alone defend and get an advantage. While Protoss has nearly no commitment doing 3 gates and a few adepts they can even take a 3rd behind it and guard with 3 pylons for overcharge.
There are so many possibilities and I cannot even completely explain, but as the previous poster stated, the adept will be nerfed one way or another. I don't even think the shield-upgrade is needed in the earlier stages and midgame to make it viable and too strong, it just straight out gives an even bigger advantage.
Also as you mentioned its not the only threat - dark templars , oracles or even blink stalkers - everything is viable - even adept pressure into oracle. I dont want to say I am the most amazing terran yet I do not struggle in TvT and TvZ as much playing on high master / gm level.
As for TvP what you can try is a reactor fast expansion into factory cyclone - this is decent to defend against both oracle and warpprism - you have to be in position though to defend while adding 2 rax stim/combat and a 3rd base. You can delay the starport as you cannot pressure anyways - photon overcharge and adept warpins are simply too dangerous but stying in base you most likely can defend and at least enter midgame.
The only thing in my opinion that is stronger than it was before are mass drops. Drop a ton of bio and add a few mines - adepts are not super mobile compared to blink stalkers and that often kills protoss as even photon overcharge on multiple pylons cant deal with the damageoutput of bio.
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Yeah nothing to add. The adept is straight up imbalanced, comes up far too early for its stats, will get the nerf axe at some point, presumably with some warp prism nerf. In the meantime, deal with the losses.
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Well Adept is fun and good unit, I don't really want it to be like removed, but maybe if it would require more tech to unlock it, that would balance early game a bit.
I think adepts aren't that big problem in PvZ or PvP but against Terran they seem to hurt a lot
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In pro games, it looks fine. In fact, most protoss get dominated by Terran in pro games (unless you are an archon of huk/MC) - I enjoy that terran finally knows how protoss felt all these years about the Marauder; a unit that decimates everything with ease for such a low cost that you can't engage or run away from.
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I think adept shield upgrade wrecks HotS-style mmm bio and terrans need to do something fresh. But Blizzard is looking into exploring the adept upgrade.
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On September 20 2015 20:38 mishimaBeef wrote: I think adept shield upgrade wrecks HotS-style mmm bio and terrans need to do something fresh. But Blizzard is looking into exploring the adept upgrade. the upgrade doesn't look to be the problem as much as how early it can hit with very little commitment for the P. It pidgeonholes TvP early game too much to be a sound unit.
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I can recommend: gasless 1+ 3Rax Proxy or Maka-Rax with a Wall. you can, most likely kill the expansion. While attacking build a CC and EBAY and a Turret in the min line. Attack with 14 Marines initally + 4 +4 after that relocate your rax into the main and keep making marines, get gas you spent on Factory (one Tank) starport (reactor), and after that, addons 4x Techlab to go into marauder production. Expand before making factory.
Don't walk up the ramp into the main, if there were no Low-Ground Pylon. If he had buidl 2-3 pylons (you have to kill them !) on the low ground, you can peek into the main, he might have gotten supply blocked during the attack + Pylons on the low ground = less pylons top. Don't go further into the main unless you know its a 100% kill.PylonOvercharge jungle and one Adept kills like 6 marines.
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I think warp prism are more of a problem than the adept. The 2 second warp in is ludicrously fast. Its already faster than vikings even without the speed upgrade and coupled with the extra pickup range pretty much means you can't kill it.
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On September 20 2015 20:32 SnowfaLL wrote: In pro games, it looks fine. In fact, most protoss get dominated by Terran in pro games (unless you are an archon of huk/MC) - I enjoy that terran finally knows how protoss felt all these years about the Marauder; a unit that decimates everything with ease for such a low cost that you can't engage or run away from. Good Post bro. I enjoy your moral standards: Let them suffer because I suffered. Thats obviously the direction we should be heading for in sc2 instead of making it an enjoyable experience for everyone.
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On September 20 2015 20:32 SnowfaLL wrote: In pro games, it looks fine. In fact, most protoss get dominated by Terran in pro games (unless you are an archon of huk/MC) - I enjoy that terran finally knows how protoss felt all these years about the Marauder; a unit that decimates everything with ease for such a low cost that you can't engage or run away from. in pro games it looks fine unless you count the pro team that just won the only major lotv tournament that's ever happened
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On September 20 2015 21:57 royalroadweed wrote: I think warp prism are more of a problem than the adept. The 2 second warp in is ludicrously fast. Its already faster than vikings even without the speed upgrade and coupled with the extra pickup range pretty much means you can't kill it. Indeed. I hope they don't let the warp prism be imbalanced for sake of having P playing a more offensive style. The warp prism, if it is to stay as it is, is broken, and should have one or two of the following : 1- robo bay requirement 2- gas cost 3- energy based warp-ins (so that you can't make 15 zealots appear out of thin air in 2 freakin seconds too easily)
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On September 20 2015 19:47 Turmantuoja wrote: Allright, I don't wanna sound mad at all. I just wanna have some tips and advices.
But how can you counter this build with Terran?
Play defensively, just like Protoss is doing in HotS. Defend all game long while scouting and building up a strong MMM+Liberator army. If the Protoss expands, you do it too. When you get like 6-8 Liberators, just go and kill the Protoss. It is that simple.
The Meta has turned by 180 degrees in LotV. It is the Protoss who is on the clock now and has to kill you before you get the ultimate army (= MMM+Lib). If he doesn't manage to do it, you will win, provided that you don't screw up the big fight. So relax, defend, don't waste units trying to harass the Protoss. Just build units, research upgrades, get to Liberators, and WIN.
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On September 20 2015 22:08 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2015 21:57 royalroadweed wrote: I think warp prism are more of a problem than the adept. The 2 second warp in is ludicrously fast. Its already faster than vikings even without the speed upgrade and coupled with the extra pickup range pretty much means you can't kill it. Indeed. I hope they don't let the warp prism be imbalanced for sake of having P playing a more offensive style. The warp prism, if it is to stay as it is, is broken, and should have one or two of the following : 1- robo bay requirement 2- gas cost 3- energy based warp-ins (so that you can't make 15 zealots appear out of thin air in 2 freakin seconds too easily) Wire, I really don't get you man. Do you really want P's harass potential to be nerfed to the ground, so that we can play just like in HotS and WoL, meaning sitting in the base the whole game and defending or doing all-ins? Is that what you want?
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On September 20 2015 20:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2015 20:38 mishimaBeef wrote: I think adept shield upgrade wrecks HotS-style mmm bio and terrans need to do something fresh. But Blizzard is looking into exploring the adept upgrade. the upgrade doesn't look to be the problem as much as how early it can hit with very little commitment for the P. It pidgeonholes TvP early game too much to be a sound unit. same in pvz. it's essentially the new blink sentry, a stable mass gateway style that forces a single tech route from zerg and whoever gets the macro advantage wins the fight and the game. not a matter of balance but of diversity in styles. speedling commitments are a waste, which is a real shame because even against blink sentry speedlings were relevant, and lings are an iconic part of the fast paced swarm style of zerg.
i just don't understand why they're a tank. i'm fine with the idea of adepts being good harass tools, but when it's literally impossible to dps down an adept by the time two of them are in your mineral line (not to mention teleporting into it) it seems wrong that they get 3-5 guaranteed worker kills as long as they're targeted properly. the skill play in the ability is a joke right now because they have so much sustainability that it's cost effective even if you don't execute well
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On September 20 2015 22:06 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2015 20:32 SnowfaLL wrote: In pro games, it looks fine. In fact, most protoss get dominated by Terran in pro games (unless you are an archon of huk/MC) - I enjoy that terran finally knows how protoss felt all these years about the Marauder; a unit that decimates everything with ease for such a low cost that you can't engage or run away from. Good Post bro. I enjoy your moral standards: Let them suffer because I suffered. Thats obviously the direction we should be heading for in sc2 instead of making it an enjoyable experience for everyone.
My point being, is it is not a problem. Adepts are fine. It's terrans who are so used to being super greedy, going CC first everygame vs protoss for 2 years of HotS who have to learn how to adapt and get used to being on the back foot in the earlygame, like Zerg and Protoss has been for years. Like I said, it doesnt look like BeastyQT or any other pro is having issues in 1v1 TvP on LOTV - Least from early adept pressure. Learn how to deal with adept pressure and its not imbalanced at all.
This is why Blizzard doesn't react to people complaining about things in the first month of changes, because to everyone who follows a very set build order and can not change how they play, they all cry imbalance. But months from now (when pros/good players show how to defend it) then it is considered fine and not an issue. That is what will happen to this Adept, as it did with most new things introduced to this game.
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On September 20 2015 22:21 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2015 20:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 20 2015 20:38 mishimaBeef wrote: I think adept shield upgrade wrecks HotS-style mmm bio and terrans need to do something fresh. But Blizzard is looking into exploring the adept upgrade. the upgrade doesn't look to be the problem as much as how early it can hit with very little commitment for the P. It pidgeonholes TvP early game too much to be a sound unit. same in pvz. it's essentially the new blink sentry, a stable mass gateway style that forces a single tech route from zerg and whoever gets the macro advantage wins the fight and the game. not a matter of balance but of diversity in styles. speedling commitments are a waste, which is a real shame because even against blink sentry speedlings were relevant, and lings are an iconic part of the fast paced swarm style of zerg. i just don't understand why they're a tank. i'm fine with the idea of adepts being good harass tools, but when it's literally impossible to dps down an adept by the time two of them are in your mineral line (not to mention teleporting into it) it seems wrong that they get 3-5 guaranteed worker kills as long as they're targeted properly. the skill play in the ability is a joke right now because they have so much sustainability that it's cost effective even if you don't execute well And how is that different to a speedling runby? I've lost more probes than I care to count to speedling runbys, which also don't require skill on the Zerg player's part and do damage even if he doesn't micro the them at all.
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None of you will change the stats. Most of you are completely biased.
Yes WP got buffed hard. The PickUprange even feels stupid, its almost like blink,, the offensive WarpIn is too strong. Its a 200 Mineral DoomDrop.
It will get nerfed.
Parasite Bomb, Corruptor Ground attack and Liberator are too strong too.
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