• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:44
CET 11:44
KST 19:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc Nintendo Switch Thread Deus Ex 3!?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8202 users

[R testing] A hypothesis on Ensnare

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
July 25 2007 04:14 GMT
#1
Well, we've all seen that beautiful experimental data on ensnare for all units and it seems totally non-systematic at the first glance. Marines get a gross speed decrease, whereas ultras get no decrease at all. However, an idea struck me recently on how ensnare might work.

First of all, coding-wise it makes little sense to set a decrease percentage separately for each unit. So, it's highly probable that there is a unified alorithm for all units that's somehow tied to their stats, but gives seemingly random results.

The actual idea is: what if ensnare increases the cooldown of a unit by a fixed percentage, but not the cooldown stated in unit stats, but the delay between attack animations of a unit?

Let's look at two units. First, take ultralisks. If you look at them closely, all of their cooldown time is being taken by their long attack animation - they strike, striking takes time, and they immediately strike again. Therefore, the delay between animations is 0, and, even after ensnare percentage applied, it's still 0, so ultras are effectively immune to ensnare attack speed-wise.

Then, take marines. Their attack animation is short, they attack and they wait for a while. This delay is increased by ensnare, and whoa they get their attack speed reduced. The effect on stimmed marines is really strange, but this may have something to do with the fact that they have a very special cooldown mechanic when stimmed - stimmed rines are the only unit with fractional cooldown (7.5). Cooldown is measured in game ticks, so this is really special, because it's sub-discretisation mode.

IIRC, reavers also have a weird ensnare effect, but that may also happen because they technically don't have an attack - they create a hangar unit much like the carrier's interceptor which performs the attack itself. Carriers are unaffected by ensnare, so it makes sense.

Well, it's just a theory, it's most likely to be wrong, but since I'm somewhat busy at the moment and can't play starcraft on my laptop (it's grapchical adapter handles HoMM V with ease, but can't work with sprite-based games), I would love someone to do the testing.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Polemarch
Profile Joined August 2005
Canada1564 Posts
July 25 2007 04:36 GMT
#2
i think you're right, i had the same theory.

someone else (maybe smuft?) noticed that cooldown doesn't directly determine # attacks per second, there's something else there -- which i'm guessing is the time it takes for attack animations.

one could probably test both these things out together and come up with a chart of the attack animatoin time
I BELIEVE IN CAPITAL LETTER PUNISHMENT!!!!!
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10835 Posts
July 25 2007 04:44 GMT
#3
someone already made a thread on this where they analyzed the effects on ensnare on various units, i think.
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
July 25 2007 04:47 GMT
#4
On July 25 2007 13:44 LosingID8 wrote:
someone already made a thread on this where they analyzed the effects on ensnare on various units, i think.
IIRC, the thread only listed experimentally acquired percentages of attack speed decrease. But if that idea had been discussed, sorry.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-07-25 06:06:53
July 25 2007 06:02 GMT
#5
Yea, I think you are 100% right. Its somewhat of a programming glitch. Its sorta like how in Streetfighter you have to time certain things to happened within like 2-3 frames to double up moves or cancel the ending animation of previous move. Or stuff like getting up and throwing instantly, For example the Shoryuken doesn't hit until frame 5 on this move so you can time a jump attack to hit or miss just before this frame and its no risk to you. Since every character has different speeds and frame motions on different moves they have to be preformed differently.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=2&topic_id=56855

Check these videos I posted there. Very Similar concepts.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12279 Posts
July 25 2007 12:06 GMT
#6
This is something I've not considered before. I never researched the correlation between attack animation frame data and cooldown, nor do I know how. You do bring up an important point, and that is cooldown does not immediately reflect the period of time between damage dealt, but rather the period between the initialization of attack animations. This is an important distinction to make because not all units have the same length of attack animation, and some units have different animations for their initial attack and subsequent attacks. For example, when Photon Cannons attack, first the claw-like tower rises up from the structure and fires, then for subsequent attacks it just stays up and fires as long as other units are in range. The same is true for Marines, and I think Dragoons as well. It's possible that Ensnare adds an amount to the cooldown equal to the amount of time it takes for a Marine to attack the first time, which may account for the drastic fire rate decrease.
Moderator
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech114
Rex 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7291
Shuttle 1906
Horang2 1306
Bisu 1025
actioN 840
Jaedong 549
BeSt 418
Larva 322
EffOrt 168
Rush 160
[ Show more ]
Zeus 150
Last 110
HiyA 104
Pusan 90
sSak 32
Sharp 28
Creator 25
Bale 25
Classic 21
Snow 20
Noble 15
Sacsri 14
zelot 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
Dota 2
ODPixel454
monkeys_forever248
XcaliburYe124
League of Legends
Reynor61
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor118
MindelVK7
Other Games
summit1g12229
JimRising 385
Pyrionflax176
Mew2King106
NeuroSwarm58
ViBE43
Railgan23
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL114
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 22
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 21
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt588
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
16m
herO vs Solar
MaxPax vs SHIN
IPSL
6h 16m
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
BSL
9h 16m
Cross vs Puma
Artosis vs Spine
Replay Cast
12h 16m
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
IPSL
6 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.