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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I don't mean to presume that I'm actually someone a lot of people care about on these forums (except for when my predictions go horribly wrong (RIP CJ) and Roro wins), but I wanted to let anyone who cares know
I don't like balance whine. I don't, in fact, like whining in general. Tongue-in-cheek or obviously sarcastic whining I can put up with because it can definitely be fun if pulled off correctly, but straight-up bashing with little to no factual basis and terrible arguments to boot bother me greatly. I've been upset about the copious amounts of whining on the forums for a few months - if it's not oracles then it's the warp gates, and if it's not the warp gates then it's the map. Protoss players aren't skilled, they just play the best race. I find the bias incredibly annoying and off-putting, and I don't really feel like there's an end to it.
TL is probably the web site with the best moderation I've ever been to, but there's still a horrible amount of borderline, not-quite-bannable but still terrible posts that slip through, ranging from personal attacks to player bashing when i, and they make the forums, very frequently, an unpleasant place to spend time in. The same goes for the childlike insecurities people have about Starcraft as an esport - is it big enough, is it dying, was it ever good, is it shit, should I watch it, why is Valve better, et cetera. Whine about tournaments, whine about organisers, whine about the lack of tournaments, whine about there being too many in too short a time span - I don't really feel like people are really happy to be Starcraft II fans at the moment and that people are using TL (more than ever) as a place to vent those frustrations. Venting frustration is good in moderation and constructively criticising things that can be improved upon also (see MLG's Game-on invitational for a great example), but when it devolves to the point where so many people seem to post only to let others know that they don't like Starcraft, I don't know - I don't feel like that's any way to spend one's time, and that it detracts greatly from the experience of other users. Myself included.
I like to think that patient arguing and hard facts would be enough to convince at least a few people that any number of illusions Starcraft fans seem to entertain these days - about prize money, about viewership, about numbers in general - are incorrect, but as Wax likes to point out it usually ends up with me arguing until my face turns red to no avail. It's an exercise in futility and one I'm not interested in continuing with.
So for now, I'm going to stop posting on the site. I'll still write articles because Starcraft is still my passion, but I don't think I will bother making any comments of my own from now on. When I do enjoy it (live report threads are often a great place to be, <3) it's an awesome experience, but I'm really tired of the rampant toxicity and until it settles down - be it through Maru pulling a miracle and winning dual tournaments or some shit, or people finally giving up the "help I'm a Terran everyone hates me"-bullshit, I won't bother.
So bye.
  
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I am with you Z-man. I'm going to avoid the general discussion threads for a while and stick to the lands where people really watch SC2. The live report thread for WCS challenger league was a blast last night and after that, there is no reason to go back to general discussion.
In the end, the sad fact is that R/Starcraft has become a more positive, inviting place than SC2 general discussion. There is a 153 comment thread celebrating Desrow making it to premier league. The top thread TL is people whining about balance.
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You take it to heart a bit too much. There is whining everywhere, has been forever. Work, life, games, balance... You just learn to ignore it at a certain point.
Just relax, the urge to post or comment might come back (or not) after some time :-)
Patient arguing or hard facts just DON'T work on dumb people, they just do not read and check what's written, just hover them and answer shit. I've burned out doing it for CS1.6/TFT for ~7years in the past.
So you learn to take it easy little by little. You're one of the most pleasant guy I've been reading these past few months on diverse threads, so I'd be happy if you come back after some time ;-)
Spend nice holidays far from the rush xD
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Don't know why you're putting such a large group of users on TL on a pedestal here; you're never going to be satisfied with most people's erratic posting habits when they want to be negative.
Just grow some thicker skin and don't be so offended by them.
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Hm, this comes as a bit of a surprise, from your posts (and postcount) I'd have thought you had thicker skin. I can relate to what you are saying though, I actually switched from protoss to terran in like 2012 because everybody around me (except toss players obv) made fun of protoss and cried non-stop about it (I actually enjoy playing terran more, but it was def one of the reasons.)
There will ALWAYS be negative people posting so its quite possible youll never post again 
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I'm going to take a look at the SC2 section to see what this is all about
This will be interesting
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Please don't, I love your ironic posts. T_T
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Your post summarizes my thoughts about 2 years ago. I eventually just laughed and stepped back and realized the whole ordeal is petty.
Come hang out in the Other Games section! TL still a great enough place for unrelated, friendlier discussion. That's why I'm still here lol.
Edit: I think people are misconstruing this post. I didn't find it to be about "thicker skin" at all. It's not necessarily personal attacks. It's just boring and pointless to see literally 200 threads a day/week/whatever about the same mundane issues pertaining to balance, whining, etc. It's not about losing arguments with faceless idiots, it's just not fun. Negativity is poisonous, and it reigns supreme in SC2. Hence, no need to partake.
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Noooooo. Don't stop fighting!
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On January 23 2014 04:20 Gamegene wrote:
Don't know why you're putting such a large group of users on TL on a pedestal here; you're never going to be satisfied with most people's erratic posting habits when they want to be negative.
Just grow some thicker skin and don't be so offended by them.
It's not being offended, it's that interactions with the SC2 general community is sort of fruitless. Most threads that are about good or positive things get hopelessly derailed. At some point it stopped being worth it.
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On January 23 2014 04:22 Duka08 wrote:
Your post summarizes my thoughts about 2 years ago. I eventually just laughed and stepped back and realized the whole ordeal is petty.
Come hang out in the Other Games section! TL still a great enough place for unrelated, friendlier discussion. That's why I'm still here lol.
Edit: I think people are misconstruing this post. I didn't find it to be about "thicker skin" at all. It's not necessarily personal attacks. It's just boring and pointless to see literally 200 threads a day/week/whatever about the same mundane issues pertaining to balance, whining, etc. It's not about losing arguments with faceless idiots, it's just not fun. Hence, no need to partake.
You don't have to argue with people to post; and you certainly don't have to argue with people to find the posts that make TL worth reading.
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I just came back from browsing the SC2 section a bit.
Wow.
The SC2 community complains more about its own game than any other I have ever seen. I honestly wonder why they play it. It's not like most of them are making money off of it. How can these people, who dislike it so much, play it for fun?
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You'll be back...
Now we won't be seeing Zealously's magnificent sig so often anymore
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On January 23 2014 04:26 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 04:22 Duka08 wrote:
Your post summarizes my thoughts about 2 years ago. I eventually just laughed and stepped back and realized the whole ordeal is petty.
Come hang out in the Other Games section! TL still a great enough place for unrelated, friendlier discussion. That's why I'm still here lol.
Edit: I think people are misconstruing this post. I didn't find it to be about "thicker skin" at all. It's not necessarily personal attacks. It's just boring and pointless to see literally 200 threads a day/week/whatever about the same mundane issues pertaining to balance, whining, etc. It's not about losing arguments with faceless idiots, it's just not fun. Hence, no need to partake. You don't have to argue with people to post; and you certainly don't have to argue with people to find the posts that make TL worth reading.
But of they shit up and dominate most threads, it doesn't matter if you argue with them or not.
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Everyone knows that this started after SC2 was announced.
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On January 23 2014 04:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 04:26 Gamegene wrote:On January 23 2014 04:22 Duka08 wrote:
Your post summarizes my thoughts about 2 years ago. I eventually just laughed and stepped back and realized the whole ordeal is petty.
Come hang out in the Other Games section! TL still a great enough place for unrelated, friendlier discussion. That's why I'm still here lol.
Edit: I think people are misconstruing this post. I didn't find it to be about "thicker skin" at all. It's not necessarily personal attacks. It's just boring and pointless to see literally 200 threads a day/week/whatever about the same mundane issues pertaining to balance, whining, etc. It's not about losing arguments with faceless idiots, it's just not fun. Hence, no need to partake. You don't have to argue with people to post; and you certainly don't have to argue with people to find the posts that make TL worth reading. But of they shit up and dominate most threads, it doesn't matter if you argue with them or not.
Just gotta learn to ignore and keep scrolling down. There are enough worthy posts out there even in SC2 general that you can read if you're willing to just be detached from the obvious shitposting.
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Zealously has some good points, but I disagree that TL is any worse than anywhere else in regards to what is or isn't decent.
There are a lot of problems with the types of posters in most game forums, and I think that as a whole nobody really wants to be as relentless in moderation as they need to in order to fix it.
If it were up to me I'd ban every single pointless post that was negative without anything constructive. Every "Broodwar is better" post would be banned in the sc2 section. Every "Lol who still plays BW" post would be banned in the BW section. Every balance whine post that was made outside of the designated balance threads would be banned, and the designated balance threads would be heavily moderated to constructive posts.
The problem is that extremely few people, deep down, actually want that. Hell I'm not even certain I want that. They want a place that they can say what they want within reason and they want to be able to argue. They want to be able to troll, they want to be able to hide their trolling to the best of their ability, hoping it gets by the filters of the mods.
In general, this is a problem with the internet as a whole and something that cannot ever be fixed entirely.
You'll be back, Zealously, and you'll see how retarded all this shit is all over again. It's an endless cycle that can really suck sometimes. I'd be a liar if I said the whole of it was bad, or that I didn't enjoy the majority, but it's fuckin frustrating at times and you just need a break every now and then.
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I somewhat agree, I think it would improve the quality of posting if mods were just a bit harsher. Permaban for anyone who posts any of that reddit meme garbage that ruins LR threads.
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On January 23 2014 04:35 Noobity wrote:
Zealously has some good points, but I disagree that TL is any worse than anywhere else in regards to what is or isn't decent.
There are a lot of problems with the types of posters in most game forums, and I think that as a whole nobody really wants to be as relentless in moderation as they need to in order to fix it.
If it were up to me I'd ban every single pointless post that was negative without anything constructive. Every "Broodwar is better" post would be banned in the sc2 section. Every "Lol who still plays BW" post would be banned in the BW section. Every balance whine post that was made outside of the designated balance threads would be banned, and the designated balance threads would be heavily moderated to constructive posts.
The problem is that extremely few people, deep down, actually want that. Hell I'm not even certain I want that. They want a place that they can say what they want within reason and they want to be able to argue. They want to be able to troll, they want to be able to hide their trolling to the best of their ability, hoping it gets by the filters of the mods.
In general, this is a problem with the internet as a whole and something that cannot ever be fixed entirely.
You'll be back, Zealously, and you'll see how retarded all this shit is all over again. It's an endless cycle that can really suck sometimes. I'd be a liar if I said the whole of it was bad, or that I didn't enjoy the majority, but it's fuckin frustrating at times and you just need a break every now and then.
At least on reddit people can down vote the assholes who post shit like that. But on TL, we have to hope the mods agree that the post is shit. It has gotten better, but the top two threads on TL general are about a mod and some amazing balance whine.
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EPT
