EPTAlso, I do SK Terran often. However, when a zerg has contianed me with lurkers and my vessels are just starting to come out, sometimes they won't leave. I irradiate some lurkers, but when they have 15+ just sitting there it gets really difficult. They don't get up and leave like they do in replays, so I'm stuck with a billion marines and medics waiting for more vessels to irradiate more lurkers. Meanwhile, the zerg has expoed 15 times and just rapes me. I'm not sure what to do here other than getting 1 tank to help me out, so how are you supposed to break a stubborn lurker containment when you are going SK Terran?
! [Q] TvZ, Fast Expo vs 2 Hatch.
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DarK]N[exuS
China1441 Posts
Also, I do SK Terran often. However, when a zerg has contianed me with lurkers and my vessels are just starting to come out, sometimes they won't leave. I irradiate some lurkers, but when they have 15+ just sitting there it gets really difficult. They don't get up and leave like they do in replays, so I'm stuck with a billion marines and medics waiting for more vessels to irradiate more lurkers. Meanwhile, the zerg has expoed 15 times and just rapes me. I'm not sure what to do here other than getting 1 tank to help me out, so how are you supposed to break a stubborn lurker containment when you are going SK Terran? | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
2 hatch invariably means faster tech. E-bay should come after you expand (so you can make turrets + you can get ups started...rines vs mutas gets owned if Z micros well, so you need turrets to help keep him from picking off your men). Also, since you went FE, you will have 2 scanners up, so since he is only 2 hatch, it's not hard to scout what he has and still have energy left-over so that if need be, you can scan for lurkers. Strategically place bunkers if, when and where necessary, and other than that, just play normally. | ||
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amoxicilline
France1124 Posts
what is the point of making none? since you are contained? and for the 2 hatch questions fe is stronger vs 2 hatch , anyway you have your 2 scans you scan his tech 100% (1scan exp 1 scan main) and you react properly while seeing how advanced is his tech (he is just starting spire // he is already morphing lurks) | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
also - if you see lurkers sitting outside your base, why not throw in even one or two tanks? you see the problem, right - you are trying to learn to adapt yet you don't go for the easiest solution when you're contained =) | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Dl33ter
Canada197 Posts
As for 2-hatch and 3-hatch lurks however, the timing and proper actions to take are very different in my opinion. Against 3-hatch lurks, you should move out and contain the zerg with your first group of M&M. Against 2-hatch lurks, you need to take a much more defensive stance, throwing at least a bunker and prolly 2 at your nat, with 1 bat in each to better counter lings. I've lost a lot of games to well-timed 2-hatch lurk/ling allins when I fast expo. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
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[jOyO]
United States920 Posts
also another thing occured to me while i was watching an SK terran guy: he mostly made marines from his 9 rax and barely any medics, maybe 1 for every 12 marines or so. i thought that was wierd, or is it better when u CAN have 9 rax? | ||
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DarK]N[exuS
China1441 Posts
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Silent_Marine
Vietnam281 Posts
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
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Myxomatosis
United States2392 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
On August 18 2006 21:01 [jOyO] wrote: SK is not a basic build order, you only do it once you can support 4+ rax or else ull get raped by ling/lurk easily. start by going 2rax>fact>expo>2port that way he cant contain with 10 lurks ><. imo its better to expo after you have your scvs built up because that way you can maximize youe expo. expoing with like >20 scvs or w/e the number is is not the best thing to do. hopefully he will see your few tanks and think he is a little bit safe then you can just overpower him in most battles with tons of rines. also another thing occured to me while i was watching an SK terran guy: he mostly made marines from his 9 rax and barely any medics, maybe 1 for every 12 marines or so. i thought that was wierd, or is it better when u CAN have 9 rax? a lot of times they just forget or do it in a hurry and just spam mmmmmmmmm another reason may be that you usually don't lose anywhere as many medics (due to higher medic hp and how they aren't priority targets) as marines and you can retreat them and just make fresh marines | ||
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amoxicilline
France1124 Posts
it doesn't cost many gaz and you can choose to not build tanks if he opened with mutas in the other case you just need to not let him contain you with your m&m army otherwise just build some tanks.. | ||
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Myxomatosis
United States2392 Posts
Against a two hatchery lurker build (and you still want to go SK Terran mid/late game), it's important to make the most of your contain and constantly micro and reinforce your control groups to slow his lurker push and avoid getting contained. By the time he reaches your base, you should have enough men to kill his lurkers with pure mnm. After you stop his initial attack its important that you move back infront of his base or attack an expansion, as you still wont have vessels yet, so its important that you are as active as possible with your mnm. If he catches you with your pants down, or you have shitty micro, you won't be able to go SK very easily, as it's going to be hard to break the contain without tanks. Versus a two hatch muta build, you should have scanned his tech to begin with and probably get your ebay before your third barracks. Personally, though I feel this is the best option, I like sticking with my 3 rax after expo and just get a later factory if he 2 hatches. If he 2 hatch mutas, he had better do some damage. If he doesn't, you may be just able to run him over with your rines pumping out of 3/4 rax (assuming he didn't mass sunken.) Like zulu_nation8 said, I also find this the most difficult build to deal with. Especially with a quick transistion into lurkers. I usually get in trouble because I scan his tech to late, and once I see the spire, I get an ebay and mass turrets, at the cost of finding myself getting a really late factory and port. At my level, once I've staved off his initial attack, I usually find that he expanded two early (before he could protect ramp with lurkers/get enough lurker) and am able to kill an expo. With regards to SK Terran in general. If you can pull it off: awesome. It looks good and is probably fun as hell to play. Seeing as I can't irradiate very fast, and don't spread my marines very well, I really rely on 2 fact tanks and don't play this way at all. But I've seen a lot of replays using this style, and I've tried using it so I hope what I said isn't crockshit. But in the reps I've seen, I don't think really seen pure SK used too many times against a 2 hatchery build. As 2 fact tanks iwith late vessels are super effetive against this build, if you can avoid getting contained. However, I think my reasoning is sound in general being that you need to be mobile throughout, and make the most of your initial contain (10-12 rines, 0-2 bats and 1-3 medics) and re-inforce it more than usual to slow him down even more. Oh, and also people tend to skimp on medics late game when using SK Terran due to reflexive spamming of "m" and less importantly, your large amount of vessels attack the zerg before he attacks you, so medics aren't as necessary as you are generally the agressor. | ||
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Blind
United States2529 Posts
Don't try to beat him so hastily. After the initial attack, continue to build up. Don't feel as if you have to win fast, because remember that he's behind. After you get a good size army, you should be able to roll him over. | ||
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
TANKS??? DROPS??? IRRADIATE RAIDS??? FERRY TROOPS OUTSIDE OF BASE??? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23465 Posts
On August 21 2006 13:19 5HITCOMBO wrote: Ok, so you're lurker contained and he's expanding like crazy. TANKS??? DROPS??? IRRADIATE RAIDS??? FERRY TROOPS OUTSIDE OF BASE??? Blasphemy! | ||
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
Also, in TvZ, you can often win even after being contained to one or two bases while he takes a lot of the map, as long as you use that time to build up and break out in such a fashion that you do mad damage to his econ/tech/production or a combination of the three. It's not uncommon for a t to win with a breakout after being contained for the whole game. | ||
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