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Newbie Mini Mafia XLIV

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 05 2013 21:42 GMT
#14
Majority lynch? What the devil?

Plurality or riot!
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 05 2013 21:46 GMT
#15
On July 06 2013 06:38 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2013 06:37 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 06 2013 06:36 cDgCorazon wrote:
So smurfs and hydras are allowed?


oh, herp derp I used the LXI OP basically. Um, I'm gonna say no to smurfs and PROBABLY no to hydras unless there's a good reason.


Hydra newbies would be really hilarious to watch though.

[image loading]

"He's scum!"

"No, he is!"
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 05 2013 22:33 GMT
#20
On July 06 2013 07:31 jrkirby wrote:
It says there are 3 scum, does that mean there are 3 not town players (since 3rd party show up as scum to cop), or there are 3 people specifically aligned with mafia? Or is that hidden info?


Blue is mod text, brohemoth.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 07 2013 06:23 GMT
#87
/obs

Just in case.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 08 2013 16:53 GMT
#90
/unobs

/in
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 08 2013 17:28 GMT
#94
On July 09 2013 02:25 StiMaDDict wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 01:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
/unobs

/in

Yay ^^


<3
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 08 2013 19:09 GMT
#101
If you vote for an hzflank lynch based on pregame meta, I will fall instantly in love with you.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 08 2013 20:04 GMT
#118
On July 09 2013 05:00 jrkirby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 04:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
On that note, has anyone ever seen an SK (or similarly a 3P with some sort of KP) kill scum?
I don't think I have.


Well I can't say I saw it. It was mighty dark that night, and a wave of shadow blocked my vision. But I heard it happen, I really did. Earlier that day there was a hurricane, and we'd been seeing chromatic rainbows all day. But come night time, there was an SK there in a wheelchair, like Xavier. A nightcat jumped through the alley. Suddenly the SK gets flanked by two scum, but he had a blazinghand, and shot them both. Unhinged, he stutters, "I am perfection." and rolls off into the night.


Kirby best breadcrumber NA 2013
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 09 2013 23:22 GMT
#152
On July 10 2013 07:30 jrkirby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2013 07:25 hzflank wrote:
No wonder there are serial killers in this game.

It's probably going to wind up with no SK but BH is going to kill whoever he feels like each night and we'll all think there is one.


More and more I'm getting the sense that TL Mafia is more about the admins who run the games and their amusement and that the players are just pawns fighting to the death to appease Caesar.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 10 2013 22:25 GMT
#182
That weird feeling when you hope your buddy gets nuked by his other friends soon so he can come play with you...
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 05:09 GMT
#201
On July 12 2013 13:49 cloud-9 wrote:
/in :-) Newby here


This guy seems legit.

##Nominate: Cloud 9 for mayor
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-12 05:55:54
July 12 2013 05:53 GMT
#204
*hops on twitch*
*clicks Dota 2*
*Arteezy's playing... banner says 'cloud 9s mega legit'*

On July 12 2013 14:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 13:49 cloud-9 wrote:
/in :-) Newby here


This guy seems legit.

##Nominate: Cloud 9 for mayor


MY MIND. IS THIS TRUMAN SHOW?

Edit: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Arteezy
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 19:55 GMT
#230
On July 13 2013 04:50 Nightcat99 wrote:
I don't actually know what wagon means but it sounds fun. I am on board.


Hey guys, I found a sheep on the wagon.

Lynch the sheep.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 23:03 GMT
#249
Sponge posting his Early Day 1 Conversation Starter?

Sponge posting his Early Day 1 Conversation Starter.

The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?

Pre-written segment starts now:

3 points to raise, in order of importance from highest priority to lowest.

1.) This game is Majority lynch: There will be 2(+) wagons per day. By the end of the day, you need to pick scummiest one and join it (no lynch = bad). Don't tunnel your read at the cost of town kp (e.g. the lynch). If you don't think either wagon is more scummier than the other, analyze the people on each wagon. You'll find you trust one of the groups of voters more than the other, even if your feelings on the lynch candidates are a wash.

CAVEAT: Feel free to hold out as long as you feel is necessary during the day to make your point. Ideally, you'll join a wagon a couple hours before the deadline. If there's 12 hours left, scumhunt the hell out of the guy no one is looking at. Hell, you might be able to get a serious wagon going on him. But if that clock is counting down, and your vote is flying solo, I don't want to hear "Oh, I was going to switch at the last second, but my internet went out" if it cost us a lynch for that day.

2.) Pet peeve: There is a separate voting thread for this game. No ninja votes. Disclose all votes and unvotes redundantly in this thread. Ninja votes may not be a scum tell, but I would consider it a personal favor.

3.) One of the big pieces of advice I keep hearing from the veterans is to not use meta in these newbie games. I took this advice one step further: I submit that unless you make a concentrated effort, you will subconsciously naturally use what little meta you have on your fellow players when making crucial decisions. In short. "Don't Use Meta" is not a call for inaction, but rather a call to actively eliminate meta arguments and bias from your decision-making process.

Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias: (quicklist)

Xzavier: strong townie reads, poor scumhunter (susceptible to OMGUS). contributes to discussion when questioned directly. syntax and post construction can sometimes be an issue. inconsistent activity level (can be a high volume poster or post in blocks in the same game). Been Mislynched in last two games- implies poor ability to defend pressure as town. unknown scum game.

hz: strong approach to the game. methodical analysis that leads to accurate reads as town. as town: willing to post elaborate conspiracy theories for public scrutiny to vet all possible venues of analysis ('no stone unturned'-type player). "This guy is Town that thinks like Scum but posts with pro-town logic. Very dangerous." - Ace Himself (NMMXLIII Scum QT) (powerful ally as town, dangerous foe as scum). can scumhunt solo or lead town as town. if you reach endgame or near-endgame with him and think he's been too good a player to be scum, re-evaluate. he is that good.

Umasi: volume poster as town. (11 pages of filter in the 84-page NMMXLII) posts can be emotional but often contain strong arguments / positions or other useful content. Analysis skills may be suspect (poor voting history in NMMXLII), and may tilt from pressure as town. Has shown willingness to tunnel as town.

Chromatically: strong analyzer of both town and scum. has the ability to drive town discussion in positive directions as town. sheepable in this format (majority lynch) if townieness is confirmed / likely.

Gotard: low activity level. (In 84 pages of Newbie Mini Mafia XLII, amassed only a 3-page filter despite being the primary wagon on day 1) unknown analysis ability. tends to follow wagons as town. post content generally short-and-sweet (1-liners that get to the point when not making cases)- very little fluff.

Sponge: volume poster- high activity level. (15 pages of filter in 99-page NMMXLIII) content-based poster. weak town reads (slow to trust; defaults to town consensus). mediocre scum reads (more data needed). weakness to pre-flip relationships, NK analysis, and trying to 'solve' Power Roles as town.

StiMaDDict: notorious lurker as town. general contribution is one post per day: a massive case on someone right before the lynch deadline. willing to target popular and unpopular targets with his vote as town. weird self-voting meltdown in NMMXLII implies a certain level of Crazy in this player. Posting is generally content / analysis-driven (low fluff). More data needed.

The above are all characterized as Player Tendencies. When looking over the list, I noticed the wide range of behaviors and how none of them are actually Scum (and only a couple are Town) tells. I feel this is useful (to myself, but maybe also to you) because it provides a baseline to check if the scum evidence being used could actually just fit into a sub-optimal townster profile."

If anyone else feels it would be productive to disclose their player tendencies, now's as good a time as any.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 23:05 GMT
#251
On July 13 2013 07:41 jrkirby wrote:
Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case.

hzflank is scum

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 09 2013 04:04 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
On July 09 2013 03:20 hzflank wrote:
On July 09 2013 02:13 Stutters695 wrote:
Obligatory USE YOUR COACHES

We're great guys and here to help


With WoS as the scum coach, I do not think that town will need your assistance.

Uh, ouch?
Need I remind you that you won a game with Ace as the scum coach too?


I meant it as a compliment. Sometimes the greatest players are the worst coaches because you just cannot teach pure brilliance.


Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them.

He goes on, still talking to the scum:

On July 09 2013 04:22 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 04:09 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
If you vote for an hzflank lynch based on pregame meta, I will fall instantly in love with you.


Then scum should night kill the first person to vote for me, because as their lover you will also die.


This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story.

On July 13 2013 04:19 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 04:09 Chromatically wrote:
I won't be here for two hours after start.


Then who will call my first post scummy?


I will. Right here, right now.

And for his first post:

On July 13 2013 07:11 hzflank wrote:
So we are using a majority vote system. As we all know there is much more chance of a No Lynch with this system than with plurality voting.

I think it is in our best interest to try to lynch someone every day. This may seem a bit odd at first, because a mis-lynch is obviously better for scum than for town. However, the only way that town will win is by lynching scum, and we will never be sure if we are lynching town or scum unless the lynch actually goes through. If we narrowly fail to lynch then we end up spending the next day discussing it and do not move forward as much.

Also, scum already know who they are. When someone is lynched the alignment information from their flip benefits town, but not scum.

Therefore, I suggest we work together as much as possible to actually get lynches through, if they are in doubt.


He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum.

Finally:

On July 13 2013 07:31 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 07:26 Koshi wrote:
Are there experienced players here? People that played a decent amount of games.


Everyone here has played 3 or less games.

Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 07:24 Koshi wrote:
Hi all. I played 1 newbie game in the TL+ forums and I am atm also playing in the nuclear mafia game.
I am with Rainbows on the lynching of lurkers. The tl+ game got RUINED because nobody posted. So if you are town, I want you to make around 10 posts a day. Try to make posts that are aggressive and confront people with your thought. Don't be afraid to be wrong. If you are town, please consider doing this to help town and force scum to make posts.


I think it is a bit early to be thinking about policy lynches on lurkers. Policy lynching can stifle discussion and we need discussion today. Once we get 24-36 hours in then we can consider it. Also, sometimes RL just happens for a day or two.

Also, I think that there will be enough activity here. There are several players who I know will post a lot and we (the active players) cannot all die really early.


Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk.

You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum.


##Vote: hzflank


Haha, the kid's got jokes! I like it.

...

But I don't like you.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 23:27 GMT
#258
On July 13 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
@Hurricane Sponge

Koshi: I am still learning on how to play the game properly. I am extremely bad at scumhunting. I get very easily annoyed by people saying that I am scum (I am working on this). I love fluff posts. I hate illogical posts but it seems that illogical does not mean you are scum, however, I am not planning on ever making an illogical post and when I do please call me on it.


As you can see, I got a lot of bad qualities that make me look scum all the time. However, I always prove that I am town by trying and hopefully this game I can prove it by actually nailing some scumreads.


You're much more likely to find posts that make 'leaps in logic' (e.g. assumptions), not ones that are strictly 'illogical'.

I'd just recommend posting in volume with analysis. Going back through people's filters is a good way to contribute if you don't feel like you have anything new or topical to say about the current dialogue. For me, posting a lot was a good way to get the jitters out of my system in my newbie game. Fluff is bad, but people telling you to stop is way better than not posting enough because you were afraid you were spamming.

Over a large enough sample size, truth wins out in the end. If you're active, you'll have nothing to worry about receive a normal level of suspicion.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 23:30 GMT
#260
On July 13 2013 08:22 StiMaDDict wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Sponge posting his Early Day 1 Conversation Starter?

Sponge posting his Early Day 1 Conversation Starter.

The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?

Pre-written segment starts now:

3 points to raise, in order of importance from highest priority to lowest.

1.) This game is Majority lynch: There will be 2(+) wagons per day. By the end of the day, you need to pick scummiest one and join it (no lynch = bad). Don't tunnel your read at the cost of town kp (e.g. the lynch). If you don't think either wagon is more scummier than the other, analyze the people on each wagon. You'll find you trust one of the groups of voters more than the other, even if your feelings on the lynch candidates are a wash.

CAVEAT: Feel free to hold out as long as you feel is necessary during the day to make your point. Ideally, you'll join a wagon a couple hours before the deadline. If there's 12 hours left, scumhunt the hell out of the guy no one is looking at. Hell, you might be able to get a serious wagon going on him. But if that clock is counting down, and your vote is flying solo, I don't want to hear "Oh, I was going to switch at the last second, but my internet went out" if it cost us a lynch for that day.

2.) Pet peeve: There is a separate voting thread for this game. No ninja votes. Disclose all votes and unvotes redundantly in this thread. Ninja votes may not be a scum tell, but I would consider it a personal favor.

3.) One of the big pieces of advice I keep hearing from the veterans is to not use meta in these newbie games. I took this advice one step further: I submit that unless you make a concentrated effort, you will subconsciously naturally use what little meta you have on your fellow players when making crucial decisions. In short. "Don't Use Meta" is not a call for inaction, but rather a call to actively eliminate meta arguments and bias from your decision-making process.

Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias: (quicklist)

Xzavier: strong townie reads, poor scumhunter (susceptible to OMGUS). contributes to discussion when questioned directly. syntax and post construction can sometimes be an issue. inconsistent activity level (can be a high volume poster or post in blocks in the same game). Been Mislynched in last two games- implies poor ability to defend pressure as town. unknown scum game.

hz: strong approach to the game. methodical analysis that leads to accurate reads as town. as town: willing to post elaborate conspiracy theories for public scrutiny to vet all possible venues of analysis ('no stone unturned'-type player). "This guy is Town that thinks like Scum but posts with pro-town logic. Very dangerous." - Ace Himself (NMMXLIII Scum QT) (powerful ally as town, dangerous foe as scum). can scumhunt solo or lead town as town. if you reach endgame or near-endgame with him and think he's been too good a player to be scum, re-evaluate. he is that good.

Umasi: volume poster as town. (11 pages of filter in the 84-page NMMXLII) posts can be emotional but often contain strong arguments / positions or other useful content. Analysis skills may be suspect (poor voting history in NMMXLII), and may tilt from pressure as town. Has shown willingness to tunnel as town.

Chromatically: strong analyzer of both town and scum. has the ability to drive town discussion in positive directions as town. sheepable in this format (majority lynch) if townieness is confirmed / likely.

Gotard: low activity level. (In 84 pages of Newbie Mini Mafia XLII, amassed only a 3-page filter despite being the primary wagon on day 1) unknown analysis ability. tends to follow wagons as town. post content generally short-and-sweet (1-liners that get to the point when not making cases)- very little fluff.

Sponge: volume poster- high activity level. (15 pages of filter in 99-page NMMXLIII) content-based poster. weak town reads (slow to trust; defaults to town consensus). mediocre scum reads (more data needed). weakness to pre-flip relationships, NK analysis, and trying to 'solve' Power Roles as town.

StiMaDDict: notorious lurker as town. general contribution is one post per day: a massive case on someone right before the lynch deadline. willing to target popular and unpopular targets with his vote as town. weird self-voting meltdown in NMMXLII implies a certain level of Crazy in this player. Posting is generally content / analysis-driven (low fluff). More data needed.

The above are all characterized as Player Tendencies. When looking over the list, I noticed the wide range of behaviors and how none of them are actually Scum (and only a couple are Town) tells. I feel this is useful (to myself, but maybe also to you) because it provides a baseline to check if the scum evidence being used could actually just fit into a sub-optimal townster profile."

If anyone else feels it would be productive to disclose their player tendencies, now's as good a time as any.


This guy.. *gentleman slow claps

First of all, way better first post than the last game.
Analysis on most of each player is very impressive, however you only meant it as a reference since it does contradict with your point #3, right?
I second your point #1. You have plenty of time, people. Make a case if someone does seem suspicious to you and push aggressively for his/her lynch, however if the wagon didn't form close to the deadline, do review whatever wagon is on the table and vote out of those.

On a side note, I can't really play my usual style of lurking and making a case at last second because of above reason. I will try to avoid it.


Exactly. It's a reference, and these biases don't mean anything because they were all exhibited by town players. That is: scumhunting based on these traits is unreliable. Those points are meant to reinforce #3 which is to say 'Meta Don't Matter', as parroted by our helpful veteran community.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 23:42 GMT
#268
On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:

The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?

Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?


Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum.
Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 23:42 GMT
#270
On July 13 2013 08:30 hzflank wrote:
Sponge, we cannot know for sure if that was actually written pre-game so I am treating it like it was written after the game started.

Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Upon realizing the importance of identifying my own biases, I am hereby disclosing everything I think I know now. If you catch me treating you based on any of the following, ask me to support it with analysis from this game if you feel I'm being unfair or displaying bias


Why are you giving people advice on how to refute your cases against them, before you even make the cases?


Because if I make a case based on meta, that's a red flag for me and I need to re-evaluate it.

Hurricane Sponge
Profile Joined March 2010
868 Posts
July 12 2013 23:46 GMT
#274
On July 13 2013 08:43 Rainbows wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 08:41 Umasi wrote:
On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote:
On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote:

The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my role PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we?

Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum?

On July 13 2013 08:20 Rainbows wrote:
On July 13 2013 08:07 StiMaDDict wrote:
I can only look at jrkirby's post as a pressure vote at this point. He didn't seem to be the type to joke around from the pre game though.


This post is scummy. Gives a reason for jkirbys post and then casts doubt on it. U scum?

I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation as to why you honestly think this is scummy.


I certainly wouldn't post that if I were scum, it is nothing but a good thing for town. Why WOULD he want to post that as scum?


to look town. Scum love to spew general pro town thingsvto get ez town cred..



This is correct. In general, these sorts of posts should result in a null read in a veteran game. But Early Day 1, when it's generally assumed nothing interesting is happening, seemed like a good time to get PSA's out of the way for a newbie crowd.

The info is valuable, but it should not get me town cred. It's more important to me that there's a town consensus on the actual content of the post, not my alignment. (Plenty of time for that later.)
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