EPTCarnival Cruise Mafia
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Kinda feeling better ... I'll stay /in. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 13 2013 05:00 DarthPunk wrote: I believe it was optimal for me to claim and prevent cops potentially wasting a check on me when I can just claim and then you all can discuss in the thread what to do. Information denial only assists mafia. What? How is this at all true? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 13 2013 13:49 Oatsmaster wrote: That was the absolutely worst vig shot in the history of mafia On May 13 2013 13:49 Oatsmaster wrote: Or scum decided to kill a dude under pressure. How can it be both a bad vig shot and a bad scum shot? This makes no sense at all. In light of the DarthPunk flip I went back and reread people's stances on him. Because he had so much spotlight on him, scum would be compelled to make an opinion on him, or at least comment on him. What is important is to see how people justify their suspicions / read on him - town players have straightforward explanations while mafia try to make stuff up. Out of them, rayn sticks out the most: On May 13 2013 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's not optimal. It's stupid or mafia. This is a classic mafia tactic. Push and lynch people for being bad, not scum. On May 13 2013 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: I mean it's not optimal to claim miller if you don't know the exact number of delf-aware millers. What Hiro said, it only allows mafia to get away with claiming it right in the beginning. If you are town you should never be checked by a cop. Here rayn implicitly calls DarthPunk mafia without actually doing so. He is pushing the idea that because it is "not optimal" that he is scum upon a ridiculous premise. "If you are town you shouldn't be checked". Read that out loud to yourself. It's nonsense. If that was the case then cops would always land red checks. Rayn is justifying his vote with bad (read non existent) reasoning. On May 13 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dunno what to make of it. Maybe he will explain it, maybe not, i'll judge later. I'm more interested in DP defending his claim as "what only townie would do" and then saying he is a good scum player and would never draw attention to himself like that as scum. If he thinks this is optimal town play, why so defensive? And calling people who think claiming miller is scummy stupid/scum is ridiculous. I would atm lynch him based purely on that. Avoiding giving opinions on kitaman(!!!) and draws attention back on DarthPunk. Then proceeds to ask a loaded question. On May 13 2013 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: How about you stop defending your sole action and start scumhunting instead? Another loaded question, pushing suspicion on him without any justification. ##Vote raynpelikoneet | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 14 2013 01:28 Promethelax wrote: because dumb. It would be bad scum play obviously but I have seen scum players do it in the past when trying to look as if they are contributing/paying attention. It is one of the things scum have the easiest time being involved in. Something else I noticed about Oats earlier but wasn't sure about so I haven't brought it up yet: he was the one with the plan to make someone fight for their lives day one (a plan I rather liked) and yet he didn't come out with an early vote day one. So a "scumslip" sort of? As for Oats, that was a plan I quite disliked and found him suspicious for. This game is instant majority lynch, whereas (recent) games tend to be deadline majority. By encouraging the idea of using votes to pressure, it urges people to be casual with their votes and allows for more scum manipulation. The vote-steal claim falls into this plan as (depending on how it works) would allow a quick hidden hammer without responsibility. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
We need to start consolidating our votes. 6 wagons with a handful of people who I can't recall posting is a recipe for disaster. I really would like more discussion on rayn than "he is good if not we can kill him later". 1) I have no idea how good he is, and even if he was good, there's no reason to give "good players" a "free multi day pass". 2) This doesn't actually work. In Liquid City Mafia, I was caught and exposed early by BloodyCobbler because of my weak scum play, yet no one actually lynched me. 3) Traditionally mafia KP is based upon mafia #. Lowering mafia # lowers mafia KP. His re-entry into the thread has 3 red flags: Flag 1: On May 14 2013 02:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: I agree with Prome on OO. I also do not like OO's analysis on my playstyle in this game. I can't read OO well and after Red Team Prize i have just mostly ignored him. Here i think he is a good lynch. There is 0 contribution in this post. He sheeps Prome, comments that he doesn't like OO's analysis on himself but neglects to give any concrete proof or explanation, pre-emptively shirks responsibility for making a correct lynch by saying that he cannot read him, admits to ignoring him, and still concludes that he is a good lynch. Flag 2: From memory or reread, look at the people who find rayn suspicious. Ok. Now look at the things / people he chooses to address. Ok. Notice the discrepancy? He totally fails to address me. The one who (arguably) made the most clear cut, straightforward case against him. On May 14 2013 00:55 slOosh wrote: In light of the DarthPunk flip I went back and reread people's stances on him. Because he had so much spotlight on him, scum would be compelled to make an opinion on him, or at least comment on him. What is important is to see how people justify their suspicions / read on him - town players have straightforward explanations while mafia try to make stuff up. Out of them, rayn sticks out the most: This is a classic mafia tactic. Push and lynch people for being bad, not scum. Here rayn implicitly calls DarthPunk mafia without actually doing so. He is pushing the idea that because it is "not optimal" that he is scum upon a ridiculous premise. "If you are town you shouldn't be checked". Read that out loud to yourself. It's nonsense. If that was the case then cops would always land red checks. Rayn is justifying his vote with bad (read non existent) reasoning. Avoiding giving opinions on kitaman(!!!) and draws attention back on DarthPunk. Then proceeds to ask a loaded question. Another loaded question, pushing suspicion on him without any justification. ##Vote raynpelikoneet Instead of addressing this primary suspicion on him, he chooses to instead address Vivax's fake - role name business, which wasn't even the primary source of suspicion on him. This is cherry picking; this is sidestepping. Flag 3: False "contribution". I don't remember who said this, but they said they liked rayn's most recent contributions. Well they should read again. Pick out just how many of his posts are questions. Those posts are not alignment telling - scum can do it no problem because it's so easy. In fact I resort to asking questions as scum because it's safe and I know I won't get flak for it, but it makes it look like I'm participating in discussion. You have to look into purpose and motivation behind the questions. The ultimate difference in scum and town is that town want scum dead while scum want to look like they want scum dead. Therefore, the ultimate heuristic in finding scum is to ask "are they actually trying to get scum lynched?" From his filter, rayn's only "meaningful" suspicion is on OO. You can see this because he tries to get people to focus on OO. However, they are in the form of "what do you think of OO? why not lynch him?", when he himself had given no proper reasoning to lynching him. There is no honest effort to make players understand his view of OO. It is uncertain if he actually wants OO (or anyone in particular) lynched or not. Makings of scum play - as long as it isn't scum, they don't care where the lynch lands. Everyone who hasn't, and everyone who has needs to give their updated views on rayn. If you want to push for someone else, you best have something more than a 1 liner saying "he looks bad". On May 14 2013 03:51 WaveofShadow wrote: You may, good sir. My opinion in general of Rayn is that he is a pretty tunnely guy...people call his play good but I honestly never quite see it. He tends to be pretty aggressive and when he's got someone in his sights as town he is very reluctant to let that read go and will post constantly attacking said person. I haven't seen much of that Rayn this game, though he may be starting to latch onto Vivax as we speak? Not sure. There are things about his play, however that make me think he's town that I am not allowed to mention yet again, sigh. I will go with town for now. Not to put you on the spot or anything, but this would be a good time to mention said unmentionables. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 14 2013 00:55 slOosh wrote: How can it be both a bad vig shot and a bad scum shot? This makes no sense at all. On May 14 2013 01:57 slOosh wrote: Oats do you think WoS is scum or not? Please don't ignore me. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 14 2013 10:50 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not claiming shit. And Sloosh, I can't mention said unmentionables because ongoing game. Look at stuff Prom said about it; he's looked stuff up. Oh, sorry, I thought it was like, a secret town tell read that you weren't giving away. On May 14 2013 14:35 VisceraEyes wrote: What do you think about VayneAuthority? His vote on prplhz seems opportunistic and he basically parroted your reasoning for voting rayn as his reasoning for suspecting prplhz...at least that's what it looks like to me. Are you similarly suspicious of prplhz for his interaction (saying "hi") with Kita? Not sure what you mean by opportunistic here. I think the thing with kita is a big stretch, but I don't find the degree / context to which he uses it as that alarming. It could be a means of idle participation, but I'm not up to date yet (I'm addressing posts as I catch up on thread). post edit: this may be the case given that none of his posts really stuck out to me On May 14 2013 18:17 Vivax wrote: A scumWoS is compatible with the idea of a scumrayn and a scumprplhz, but not with a scumOats so that should answer s & b's question about what I think about Oats. One at a time Vivax, one at a time. I don't see the WoS lynch as strong as it is made out to be. This quote is quite true. On May 15 2013 04:02 WaveofShadow wrote: See this is exactly what I mean. WTF is this? Look at how many of my posts are about Oats. How can I take this fucking game seriously? I'll be looking over rayn's defense of me when I get a more substantial block of time. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Could someone give a quick summary of the top wagons? I don't think I can properly evaluate rayn within whatever time we have left. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 15 2013 12:04 Ace wrote: HiroPro[L-8]: Anonymous Vote Did I miss something here? I thought we tested Oats vote as invalid? Looking at OO's filter right now. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote ObviousOne Oats, could you explain this from town perspective? On May 15 2013 07:02 ObviousOne wrote: Vayne is the wrong lynch today, VE. See his other ongoing newbie game that we can't talk about and you will see why. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 15 2013 12:49 Ace wrote: VayneAuthority[L-8]: ObviousOne He defends Vayne using unmentionable meta, presumably on writing style / attitude / activity since that is what meta tends to be. Yet when he flips and pushes a Vayne lynch less than an hour later On May 15 2013 08:09 ObviousOne wrote: I don't like it and I think I'll vote to lynch you now that I've reviewed your filter. Nothing in Prplhz filter says scum to me right now. Your point about Kita interaction means precisely nothing. Saying you suck to slOosh is null. Two null points do not a scum read make. This is a staggering fabrication while you yourself remain distanced and full of "logic" but your logic is faulty and a such you are either willfully pushing a bad lynch or you are simply not aware that most players here are friendly with each other and that basic interactions are useful not only to determine alignment but to greet each other when they haven't played together in some time. ##unvote Sinani ##vote VayneAuthority No mention at all about Vayne's meta. These are all points that existed before, and there isn't actually stuff in there that is used to prove he is scum as much as it is used to prove that he is a "bad player". Therefore the original meta use is total fluff. It's like me saying, OO is scum because meta. Vote OO. I can't explain why. But I reserve the right to shirk responsibility for this stance later. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 15 2013 16:08 ObviousOne wrote: Kind of an out-of-place (but relevant to conversation) defense of me before the bandwagon on me took off. It's curious. Making a note of it. Go to the filter. [re-read on hold to follow this train of thought] Later on, we get this: I fully explained it Apparently not good enough. What can I expect when he's under the gun to get it in just a few minutes before deadline? Why ask Oats, why not ask the horse itself? Because at the time I had previously established a soft town read on Vayne. Then I re-read him and understood exactly what was being discussed about Vayne and his case against Prp and I found his case contrary to his purported town mentality and modus operandum. His back and forth with Prom just sealed the deal to me. Have I made things clear yet? Are you reading my posts in context or are you just skimming through my filter? How does the first quote have any relevance to the rest of the response? I must have missed / disregarded your meta post. All you did was say "his town meta is this, his scum meta is this". So all I have is to take your word on it, given that you did not provide any evidence whatsoever. Even now I don't know how true this is, nor have you taken it upon yourself to convince anyone that this is the case. I agree that Vayne was pretty emotional with his back and forth with Prom, but that means nothing unless you can prove that this is something he doesn't do as town and he does do as scum. If you can't do that, you've taken a stance without justification. It slipped my mind Oats didn't have a vote. Obviously I'm going to try convincing people who might put their vote on you rather than you yourself. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 15 2013 16:25 Vivax wrote: You people are so abysmally bad. You should simply go read how WoS treats BH when he was pushing him, earlier in the day. If you can read. Then you will notice he shovels shit at him without ever making a case, but in the next moment he tries to tell him that he's (WoS) not scum in begging tone. He completely stopped pursuing his Oats scumread. Literally everything could do for him, late in the day. There is no target for WoS. Wake up baddies Vivax, what do you mean? If anything Oats was one of the more viable deflection targets should WoS be scum. | ||
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