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I wrote a short guide for another site that I'm posting here as well. There's more to be added but this should cover most of the considerations to early game ganking
Early Game Jungling Guide
1.) General Jungling and Types of junglers
There are lots of different ways to categorize junglers. For the sake of ease, this guide proposes two general types; ones who have strong early presence, and ones who need level 6 to be the most effective.
This distinction is based on the current NA solo queue jungler pool. The first category includes champions such as Shaco, Lee Sin, Xin Zhao, Maokai, Jarvan, and Rammus. These champions are very powerful pre 6. They all have a reliable gap closer and some sort of crowd control without their ultimate that allow them to gank effectively early.
The second category includes champions such as Hecarim, Skarner, Nocturne, Amumu, Malphite. While some of those champions such as Amumu and Nocturne can gank well pre 6, their ultimates contribute to most of their ganking power, and thus these champions have more of a reason than the previous group to rush lv6.
Junglers in the first category usually clear slower than the ones in the second category. To make up for the slower clear speeds, they provide more presence for your team, and better support for your lanes early on. Hence as a very general guideline, you should try to only jungle for buffs after the first clear with strong pre 6 junglers, and spend the rest of your time roaming and ganking, and taking farm wherever possible to keep up.
On the other hand, junglers in the second category should be clearing jungle as often as possible, and limiting your ganks pre 6.
There are jungler who can fall into both categories, as they can either be played differently, or are strong at both ganking and clearing. Olaf and Vi are two junglers that come to mind. They both can provide a lot of presence early and keep up in farm at the same time.
When picking a jungler, remember to think about what your team needs, whether it be initiate, tank, damage, disengage, early pressure, aoe, type of damage, etc. When your laners require help early, as a rush lv6 type of jungler, it can put a lot of pressure on you as you need to stunt your own growth to prevent the game from getting out of hand by showing yourself.
On the other hand if the enemy laners all play extremely safe, and as an early game jungler, you try to roam but don't accomplish anything, the other jungler assuming that he farmed in the mean time, will be higher level and make it tough for you to gank without the fear of being counterganked, as well as winning any kind of 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4s, and of course controlling dragon.
Remember to play to the strengths of your jungler, and the weaknesses of the enemy jungler. Do not farm until lv6 with Xin Zhao, or roam at Lv3 with Skarner. Look for opportunies to gank but do not try to force advantages if there are none available.
2.) Ganking
Ganking is the way with which junglers exert their influence on games. There are a wide range of factors to consider when deciding when and where to gank. The most important ones are where enemy wards are, which champions make up the lane you are ganking, the levels of the champions involved, their health and mana, their cooldowns, their abilities, cc spells, their potential to carry, where the creep wave is situated and the number of creeps on both sides, and finally where the enemy jungler might be.
For a standard reference, the more prevalent ganking route is to start at whichever buff that is across from your top lane, for example blue buff on purple side, and red buff on blue side, take the other buff you did not start at ASAP after taking your first buff, then ganking top or mid at level 3. This is the safest jungling path, and the most standard, as by taking both of your buffs quickly, you are preventing vs counterjungling, and you'll be the strongest champion in the game the fasted by getting Lv3 the earliest with double buffs.
Pay attention to where wards are as soon as enemy laners show up on the map Lv1. Know all the possible combination of inventory items and how many wards each laner can carry. If enemy laners warded as soon as they got to lane, the first wave of wards will be gone a little after 5 minutes. If you are an early game jungler, ganking once at Lv3, or at the latest Lv4 is mandatory. If you do not exert your strength when you are the strongest, then most of your ganking power will have been wasted. Enemy top laners can only ward vs. one path. You can gank from river, lane, or behind.
Mid lane is usually harder to gank and should almost always be ganked from behind by coming around from near their mid tower. Bot is usually the hardest lane to gank early as supports carry the most wards and usually have the best escape abilities.
There are basically two timings to ganking early game, at Lv3, or at Lv4 by clearing the rest of your jungle after double buffs and preferably waiting until the first wave of wards wear out.
If you are not sure where wards are, you can walk by areas where you suspect might be warded, and watch how the enemy laners react. But walking on wards early game is almost always bad, as it relieves pressure on the enemy lanes you are not near, gives valuable information to the other team about your location and possible paths, and most importantly wastes your own time because your ganks will likely fail.
Aside from the laning factors listed earlier to look out for when ganking, the other big factor, and possibly the hardest to consider is where the enemy jungler is. The one thing junglers are afraid of the most is getting counterganked, and if you are getting counterganked by a stronger champion at whatever stage of the game, it could easily result in a reverse double kill for the enemy team, and effectively ends that lane for your team.
The standard countergank, like the standard ganking path, is trying to countergank the other jungler when he ganks top at lv3. In order to do so you need to be sure of where the enemy jungler started, and having an early ward at top would also help tremendously. Good junglers who expect to lose in a 2v2 or 3v3 situation and suspect that a countergank is possible will rarely put himself in a situation to get counterganked. When it comes to a situation where both junglers are wary of each other's location and routes then it becomes a battle of mind games and whoever takes initiative.
Often times more than one your lanes will lose on their own. Junglers will never have the time to help all three lanes so in games where your team is getting pressured hard, you have to make the decision of which lane to help. Usually that lane should be the one not losing, as games are decided by carries, and as long as you have a champion that can carry late game and is having a relatively successful laning phase, the team always has a chance to win.
For lanes that are losing, there are times when it is too late to help, this usually applies to top lane, as mid laners can still burst each other down when behind. If your top is losing early on, make sure to help him at least once before the other top snowballs too hard, or else it will be too late. When you do decide to help a losing lane make absolutely sure you will not get counterganked, or else a gank for your own team may very well end up snowballing the other team even more.
It is always less risky to gank for winning lanes than losing ones, and better for your chances of winning by snowballing winning lanes rather than helping out losing ones. This logic might seem counter-intuitive, but it applies absolutely at skill levels where laners understand how to snowball.
For example, when your bot lane is ahead but your top lane is losing, and your top got behind from getting ganked. The two factors to consider when deciding which lane to help is whether or not your top will ever carry, or their top will ever carry from snowballing further, compared to if your bot lane can carry. If for example, your top is a Renekton who got behind vs. a tank Nidalee, whereas your AD carry is a Miss Fortune, in almost every game, you should be counterganking for your bot lane as the enemy jungler will certainly camp your bot lane to prevent them from getting strong. A Renekton or a tank Nidalee will never carry as hard as a fed MF. If you decide that since your bot lane is winning you can leave them alone and help your top from not getting behind further, then that choice will most likely cost you the game vs. an intelligent jungler who will camp your bot lane while you are trying to help a top lane that will ultimately have little effect on the outcome of the game relative to your bot lane.
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What would you consider as optimum ways to help a jungler gank? How should I time myself in lane or at least how should I act to make a gank more feasible or possibly successful.
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If you are the stronger laner, whether it means because your champion is stronger or that you are playing more aggressively, or that you are high level and have more gold, do not aggro when your jungler is ganking for you as it will scare away your opponent. If you are the weaker laner, bait your opponent into going aggro on you but not so much that it gives away the gank. Often times when your jungler has no hard cc you need to bait a fight first or initiate something in whichever way possible. When you are fighting the other laner, chances are he won't even see your jungler coming even if it's warded.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Oftentimes, the best way to assist ganks is to just not change your way of laning at all util the jungler becomes visible. Baiting the enemy when you are weaker can oftentimes make them back off, realizing that a jungler gank is coming. If you don't change the way you lane at all until the last possible moment, the enemy has no way of knowing, and the jungler can pick his own exact time to go in (probably when the enemy is going to take a creep).
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What Scip and Bly said but another important thing to remember is that the aim of a jungler's gank isn't to kill your lane opponent, that's just the best-case scenario. Most of the time what you're trying to do is trade favorably with them and force them to blow summoners while setting the lane up to zone the enemy with either presence or by dropping their hp/mana/summoners too low to safely last hit or gain xp. Too often I see a jungler come to gank and after there's no chance of a kill the laners keep chasing while missing last hits or tanking creep damage. If the gank isn't going to be successful you don't have to all-in, just calmly return to farming and try to consolidate whatever advantage you gained by them missing creeps.
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I just had a game today, i was playing olaf, and got invaded, even as we saw them early and ping back we still losse FB blue and wolfs(suport die, they blow most summoners), so i was behind hard, did what was left, got philo, and started farming, lanes start to losse on their own, so im forced to show my self and try some ganks, the ones dont get kills, just summoners, hp, then their J4 and their mid start to counter jungle hard on me, and i end up going 2-5-5 or something like that, we losse game cause mid and bot losse hard.
On that kind of start was ok for me to go philo?, should i just went razor or get red gank at lvl2?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On February 05 2013 17:05 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
What Scip and Bly said but another important thing to remember is that the aim of a jungler's gank isn't to kill your lane opponent, that's just the best-case scenario. Most of the time what you're trying to do is trade favorably with them and force them to blow summoners while setting the lane up to zone the enemy with either presence or by dropping their hp/mana/summoners too low to safely last hit or gain xp. Too often I see a jungler come to gank and after there's no chance of a kill the laners keep chasing while missing last hits or tanking creep damage. If the gank isn't going to be successful you don't have to all-in, just calmly return to farming and try to consolidate whatever advantage you gained by them missing creeps.
This is exactly what I tend not to do. The thing is, once you gank like this, you are behind the enemy jungler and are put into a really awkward position. There are going to be quite long (20+s) timings when you are going to be behind on levels and because of the way you gain experience that difference is only going to increase. By 3-4 minutes after the gank you are almost guaranteed to be scared of countergank, perhaps until you get your ultimate up (depends on whom you are jungling).
The other thing is, in top lane specifically, ganks tend to push lanes, and depending on where you have wards and what side you are, you might be forced to protect top lane for 15-20 more seconds when you can't be farming. Even if top lane is warded, if you don't do that, enemy jungler is free to zone your top lane once it gets frozen.
Alternatively, you can help your laner push the lane to tower and back, but the enemy top laner WILL get more experinece than your own that way.
What I'd say is that getting a really good trade for a lane is alright, at least you helped the lane a bit, but it should (almost) never be the primary goal.
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I think you're totally misunderstanding me, or maybe I wasn't that clear. Obviously you don't gank a lane unless it's a high percentage of success, but what I'm trying to get across is that you don't have to all-in like retards every time someone ganks your lane. If it fails, just go back to farming.
Like, I'm not advocating failing ganks or fucking your team over, I'm just saying that one big problem with bad players is that they don't know how to calmly go back to farming when a gank fails instead of chasing like retards and missing cs. Obviously you want the kill, but that's not going to happen realistically 100% of the time and you need to learn how to deal with that. Sending your opponent back is almost as good as getting the kill.
Again, I'm not saying gank just to put damage on them unless it will win the lane for your teammates. All I'm saying is that if the high percentage gank fails, don't lose your shit and chase like a retard, just reevaluate and consolidate whatever advantages you can.
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On February 05 2013 15:24 Scip wrote:
Oftentimes, the best way to assist ganks is to just not change your way of laning at all util the jungler becomes visible. Baiting the enemy when you are weaker can oftentimes make them back off, realizing that a jungler gank is coming. If you don't change the way you lane at all until the last possible moment, the enemy has no way of knowing, and the jungler can pick his own exact time to go in (probably when the enemy is going to take a creep).
I don't want to give away too many tricks here, but I've found that intentionally missing a skillshot can make an aggro player get bloodlusted and try to dive on you.
For example, if I'm playing Swain or Morg and I see that my jungler is almost in position, I'll whiff a skillshot. Most good players will attempt to punish this by getting all aggro and trading with me, knowing that my skillshot is down. However, they are just sealing their fate. The jungler engages the way-out-of-position mid, and my snare is back up in time for the fight.
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If you really think I'm retarded I'm probably wrong though, you're a better player and I suck fat dick now
It's probably a much better idea to listen to scip than it is to me in case anyone is wondering
I'm really not sure if he read my whole post or if he just read the first 10 words though
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On February 06 2013 00:36 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 15:24 Scip wrote:
Oftentimes, the best way to assist ganks is to just not change your way of laning at all util the jungler becomes visible. Baiting the enemy when you are weaker can oftentimes make them back off, realizing that a jungler gank is coming. If you don't change the way you lane at all until the last possible moment, the enemy has no way of knowing, and the jungler can pick his own exact time to go in (probably when the enemy is going to take a creep). I don't want to give away too many tricks here, but I've found that intentionally missing a skillshot can make an aggro player get bloodlusted and try to dive on you. For example, if I'm playing Swain or Morg and I see that my jungler is almost in position, I'll whiff a skillshot. Most good players will attempt to punish this by getting all aggro and trading with me, knowing that my skillshot is down. However, they are just sealing their fate. The jungler engages the way-out-of-position mid, and my snare is back up in time for the fight.
It seems that for Swain and Morg (whose skillshots apply CC, also applies to Lux and Ahri too I suppose), hitting a skillshot is another way of setting up a gank; is it really better to intentionally miss, or to just be aggressive and throw out skillshots that have a low probability of success or that wouldn't be worth it if they land (except for the jungler)?
i.e. you binding at someone coming to last hit in a situation where you know there's a decent chance you might miss, and either you hit them (in which case they're rooted while the jungler jumps on them) or you miss (in which case you bait, as you described).
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On February 06 2013 01:24 entropius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 00:36 Crownlol wrote:On February 05 2013 15:24 Scip wrote:
Oftentimes, the best way to assist ganks is to just not change your way of laning at all util the jungler becomes visible. Baiting the enemy when you are weaker can oftentimes make them back off, realizing that a jungler gank is coming. If you don't change the way you lane at all until the last possible moment, the enemy has no way of knowing, and the jungler can pick his own exact time to go in (probably when the enemy is going to take a creep). I don't want to give away too many tricks here, but I've found that intentionally missing a skillshot can make an aggro player get bloodlusted and try to dive on you. For example, if I'm playing Swain or Morg and I see that my jungler is almost in position, I'll whiff a skillshot. Most good players will attempt to punish this by getting all aggro and trading with me, knowing that my skillshot is down. However, they are just sealing their fate. The jungler engages the way-out-of-position mid, and my snare is back up in time for the fight. It seems that for Swain and Morg (whose skillshots apply CC, also applies to Lux and Ahri too I suppose), hitting a skillshot is another way of setting up a gank; is it really better to intentionally miss, or to just be aggressive and throw out skillshots that have a low probability of success or that wouldn't be worth it if they land (except for the jungler)? i.e. you binding at someone coming to last hit in a situation where you know there's a decent chance you might miss, and either you hit them (in which case they're rooted while the jungler jumps on them) or you miss (in which case you bait, as you described).
Well obviously landing one of those is insta-kill on a gank. I meant to use it in a situation where you can't land one. For example, I almost always get firstblood as Swain if I can goad my opponent into trying to trade with me. Once they come in just past W range, I lay the W just behind them (so they run right into it), and EQ+ignite. Free kill. The next time, they'll be more wary of me. If I start coming close, they'll just run away.
Thus, trying to land a Nevermove to set up a gank almost never happens against someone who's laned against a Swain before. Think of it as trying to bait as Blitz in bot lane. What do most good players do against a Blitz? Dodge his hook, then punish him for it. If you land a hook, they die anyway so it's irrelevant. If you don't think you can land one and your jungler is there, throw one out and watch them try to come punish you. They'll jump across the river, only to be pwned by your jungler.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
^^^^ 5hatcombo
I was refering to the first part of your post, where you said that
On February 05 2013 17:05 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
(..)Most of the time what you're trying to do is trade favorably with them and force them to blow summoners while setting the lane up to zone the enemy with either presence or by dropping their hp/mana/summoners too low to safely last hit or gain xp.(..)
which is what I disagreed with. It's very very rare that that is an optimal play imo. There are certain situations when it is beneficial, and it is a good option to keep in mind, but it's not something to be done routinely, or even close to.
For the latter part of your post, absolutely, if the gank has failed, chasing in too deep just to miss creeps and not get more significant damage done is a bad play, + it also opens you up to counterganks.
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I think the OP kind of indirectly supports this but I wanted to get a little feedback from better junglers. I float around 1500. My general strategy is I tend to ignore bot lane. I appreciate it being laid out that when lanes get behind you shouldn't gank for them and instead should gank lanes that can snowball and carry instead. Bot lane especially seems to just spiral out of control at times at my ELO. I rarely gank bot early. And if they get double killed early (which is like a 50-50 shot) they will bitch the entire game to gank your lane and if you don't they'll pretty much refuse to try. And if you gank their lane it fails 90% of the time at that point because ward coverage is too good and they are in no position to come in on the other AD. It often feels like you're flipping a coin whoever's bot lane gets double killed early loses unless I play a champion like lee sin that can actually gank from lane early bot with success. People at my level don't understand that getting zoned and not dying is really not that bad in the long run. Does anyone have any more elaborate advice on this situation?
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Quick question: How do you deal with griefing caused when lane loses too hard and it's impossible to gank it anymore so you just ignore him and they end up whining all game?
Shit's annoying honestly and ruins games. Whining's fine, can just mute them, but a lot of them will like honestly AFK or just ragefeed.
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On February 06 2013 05:58 Roffles wrote:
Quick question: How do you deal with griefing caused when lane loses too hard and it's impossible to gank it anymore so you just ignore him and they end up whining all game?
Shit's annoying honestly and ruins games. Whining's fine, can just mute them, but a lot of them will like honestly AFK or just ragefeed.
Just mute them. The only way to deal with them honestly. I cant find the speed or energy to filter out the whining from the usefull SS or any other usefull team communication for the matter when the chat is crammed with that shit.
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You will almost certainly throw the game by trying to recover an unrecoverable lane. Your hapless, doomed ally might throw the game if their whining leads to ragefeeding. Don't let the stupid be contagious, make the smart choice.
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EPT
