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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On October 27 2012 07:37 debears wrote: Awwww man why is this starting so soon :/ Can't do a newbie, MLP, and this  Guess you'll just have to drop out of MLP and have a replacement take your place. This has nothing to do with the fact that I'm the first replacement. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I shan't be modkilled! | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
About Release: I don't think he's scum. He seems too involved and sincere to be scum. He might not say the best things at all times, but so far I have a slight town read on him. In any case, we seem to have moved passed him for the most part today. As for Muso and Acrofales... this is an awkward situation. If there's only one mason pair (which looks to be most likely), I'm inclined to believe Acrofales over Muso. I find it more likely that Muso fakeclaimed mason before there were any claims, than Acrofales fakeclaiming mason after there was already a claim. ##Vote Muso | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On November 02 2012 09:37 Muso wrote: Okay. I take full responsibility for this situation. Admittedly, I didn't make any attempt to assess the experience levels of anybody here before I started this game, so this is undoubtedly my fault. 1) However, I banked on Acro and his teammate figuring this out instead of coming out and counter-claiming me. Pretty much everybody in the game determined the following: 1. this is a suicide play as scum 2. it is extremely unlikely there were 2 mason teams, Unfortunately, the masons didn't make the next leap in the puzzle, and think outside the box to figure out WHY? Fair enough, I'm not blaming you. I am Kid Watching TV, aka a vanilla. 2)The point of the gambit should be obvious now. 1) So your claim is that you were hoping the scum would assume you're telling the truth, and hoping the real masons, if they even existed, would know you're not a newbie scum. Even though you made it clear that you are a new player... What was your ultimate goal? 2) It's blatantly obvious why scum would claim mason (though risky in the event of another mason team actually existing). It's much less obvious why a townie would do so. I want to see what the "point of the gambit" was, but the way it stands, all you did is force one of our masons to claim. I... don't know what to think about this. It feels like a really noobish mistake that either town or scum could make. I see more motivation for scum, but for some reason I think he's more likely to be town... ##Unvote Muso I don't really know who I want to lynch after him, though. I'll give more thought to it when I get home later. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I don't feel like voting for Muso. I actually have a slight town read on him. I really wouldn't mind a vig shot on him, though. There's a lot of mystery around him, and he's going to be on my mind for the rest of the game after this D1. A vig would save us the worry. Looking through Draz's filter, I'm not really liking what I'm seeing. Most of his posts are one-liners that don't even really contribute to scumhunting. His posts seem like a lot of riling people up instead of true scumhunting. Then he gives himself an out for the rest of D1 by saying that it's too crazy to deal with and that he'll have better reads after the night post. Well of course he will - we should all have better reads after a flip. I think he has the best chance of flipping scum so far. ##Vote drazak | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I'm TNT. See, I can do it too. + Show Spoiler + Yes, this is a lie. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On November 03 2012 06:21 kushm4sta wrote: I don't find you or your predecessor particularly scummy. Also even if I wanted to lynch you I don't think realistically you have a possibility of getting lynched today. Buy my flavor theory or not. I'm going to vote for the bandwagon that I think has the best chance of flipping red. that is muso right now even tho I think he's probably town. Wut? | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched. ##Unvote ##Vote Muso Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba... | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I actually have town vibes from Prome. I also never felt too convinced of prplhz's scumminess. Really gotta go now~ | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On November 04 2012 09:00 DarthPunk wrote: So unless a vig claims I am going to assume we have a serial killer. I felt like Release was getting at something, but now I'm not so sure. I'll be assuming the same, I suppose... | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I'm terrible at hopping back into the thread. Is there anything in particular that you'd like me to comment on? If not I'll probably end up solo-analyzing filters and talking myself in circles, which doesn't help anyone XD | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On November 04 2012 02:47 DarthPunk wrote:I have a scum read on drazak. He has posted mainly one liners commenting on the by play of proceedings rather than bring any original thought or information to the thread. He has also been consistently wishy-washy in his posting. Like I was going to go through this post and bold the wishy-washy bits but then I may as well have bolded the entire post. Just read that and find one solid statement. Because I sure as hell can't. But note the part I have bolded and then read drazak's subsequent series of posts which stuck out to me quite starkly. He goes from wishy washy on kush. Saying he could be scummy. Then he posts his role name somewhat aggressively. After which kush thinks he is town based on his theory with the flavor immediatly after kush unvotes him and declares him to be town. Drazak posts his 'reads' First of all I hate lists such as these. They allow scum to seem to participate without actually doing anything. A few sentences on several players comprise drazak's 'reads' HOWEVER. Note the read on kush. He has gone from scummy and wishy-washy to 100% town meta. IMMEDIATELY after kush declares a town read on drazak. It seems as if Drazaks opinion of someones scumminess is linked to their opinion on draz. Now THAT is scummy to me. Combined with all the wishy-washy posting and fluff one liners. I would certainly like to lynch drazak. Snipped out the drazak portion. While I'm by no means certain of it (as I am rarely certain of anything), I'm back to thinking there's a strong chance that drazak will flip scum. I realized while considering this case that too often I immediately give people the benefit of the doubt. That being said, here's my analysis. Firstly, I don't see wishy-washiness as a very strong scum tell. This is because I am probably the wishy-washiest player who has ever played on TL and I've only rolled scum once. I understand that it is a scum tell for other people, but I just can't see it that way. That being said, the fact that drazak's read on kush seemed to change as a direct result of kush's read on drazak changing certainly feels scummy. I didn't feel a particular change in kush's play during that time. In addition, this recent post from him makes me feel like he thinks kush is scummy again, despite the fact that he said kush was 100% playing to his town meta: On November 04 2012 22:03 drazak wrote: so... we've got an sk for sure? No way that was a vig shot or something? Hey kush, why did you bluehunt so hard, I'm not cool with that. Finally, what DP said about the "list of reads" posts are what made me realize what makes me so wishy-washy. On that point I was reading drazak's posts as a townie trying to avoid a mislynch without equally considering that it was scum trying to avoid a legitimate lynch. Given that everything I've previously mentioned about drazak's play still holds true imo, he's my top scumread at the moment. @Drazak What made you switch from "kush looks kinda scummy" to "kush is playing 100% to his town meta"? And do you now think kush is playing scummy again? | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
One question: if there is an SK is it definitely mylo? Can't scum and SK kill each other? | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I actually don't think I have three at the moment. Drazak is definitely one of them. I'm still waiting on a response from him. After reading your case against Release, which makes a lot of sense, he's back on the list. His immediate appearance in the thread, as you've pointed out, strengthens the case. I'd make him the second one. Third... I'm not sure. I'm going to look at Prome's D2 as a whole, instead of in individual posts to see if I see the same things Hope does. One thing that struck me as odd was when risk posted about Prome fake claiming being roleblocked, simply because the same thought occurred to me as well. I accepted Acro's claim immediately, but Prome's made me feel weird about him. I don't know why, but maybe my read through his D2 will give me some insight. Right now it's just a bad feeling accompanying my earlier town read. However, as Acro pointed out, it's easy to act town for a while to save yourself or your scumbuddies, but if you have to do it over an extended period of time you'll probably slip up somehow. Finally, my school's cdl team just roped me into streaming and casting our team's match in 45 minutes, so I have to get ready for that. I should be back in about... four hours at most. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
@Acro: I have to be honest and say that Prome is escaping me. I don't know what to think about him. D1 he seemed really townish, and I feel like I have to force scummy motives for his D2 posts to make me see him as scum. I did get a "lie" feeling from his rb claim, but looking back I don't see a reason for it. My instinct is to find him town. Do you agree with Hopeless's recent post on him? If you do, could you point out a post or two where he is being active but not scumhunting? I think I have trouble discerning the difference. @Hopeless: Could you point out a post or two where Prome is being active but not scumhunting? @Prome: Regarding your earlier request of me, my vague read on you is above. My read on Acro is pretty strong town. Regarding your latest post, I agree that Draz is the best lynch today. Acro referring to your "scum buddy" doesn't seem scummy to me. If he said "scum buddies" instead then someone could say "how do you know there's more than one scumbuddy?!?" and it would be the same situation. I think it's kind of arbitrary. As far as the RB thing, I can't really think of a reason. I've mentioned above that it was probably just a weird feeling I had. I'm trying to ignore it. @Kush: You can see indecisiveness and inherent guilt in every one of my games here. You've basically described my meta perfectly. The difference in this case is that I don't have far more experienced players who understand my meta in this game to defend me from my own shortcomings. This means I have to explain it to those who haven't played with me before so that they don't jump down my throat for something that I've done in every game. You've essentially accused me of playing to my meta (I won't say town meta, since I don't even have a full scum game here) and being honest/transparent. It's actually a bit strange, because you've actually played with me before and should understand this. Oh, and what are your reasons for wanting to lynch hopeless? thrawn's recent post resonates with me pretty strongly regarding Release. After he returned, aside from the lurky re-entrance to the thread, I got the same feeling from him that I had earlier. He seems genuine and upfront. I'm back to leaning town for him. I feel like I've missed something I meant to talk about, but I can't keep my eyes open anymore. I'll see you guys in the morning. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I was just doing some reading, I had a flash of brilliance as I slept and remembered thinking that Fuba played a lot better than this when I last played with him. Looking back at my history I finally found the game he was in with me, NMM XXIII, in that game (both iterations of it, one in which he was scum and the other he was town) he played an active and interested game. He says now that there are always people defending him based on his scummy meta but I don't find that to be accurate. In NMM XXIII he did not appear scummy and played as if he cared. His behavior this game has been totally different and anti-town, while I don't know if Kush, Draz or Release can play a better game I am confidant that Fuba can. I was planning on putting a pressure vote on him to post his reads when I last posted but edited it out before I posted becasue I didn't feel that there was a real case on him. Now that I have looked back at him I am placing a real vote, no pressure intended, just looking at scum. That was my very first game, and I was genuinely more excited and able to participate than I am now. If anyone is going to look into NMM XXIII, keep in mind that the first half of my filter is scum mkfuba, and the second half is town mkfuba. And I didn't mean to imply that I had people defending me all the time, I simply meant that there were always people there that understood my meta and would be able to explain that I am wishy washy in all of my games (possibly excluding that one, I don't exactly remember). If someone would have called me out as wishy-washy, there would be marv, or hapa, or even blazinghand once to point out that I regularly play this way. In this game, I had to do it myself because I don't think anyone else would do it for me. And how often do you implicitly trust someone when they talk about their own scummy meta after being called out as scum? Not very often. For that reason, I explicitly stated how I felt and what was going on throughout the entire game. This is on page 11, where both Acro and Muso had claimed but well before we knew that either had fake claimed. What we see is that Fub is voting based on the fake claim of muso. As was everyone, note though that his reason is completely comprised of that one facet of muso's play. And now that it is confirmed that Muso fake claimed (the reason that Fuba voted him) Fuba unvotes him. There is literally no reason for town to change their read at this point, nothing about the situation has changed in Fuba's mind. Muso had fake claimed when Fuba first posted and he had Fake claimed when Fuba next posted, how did this change from a scum read to a town read? And, to the sentence I highlighted we see that Fuba has left himself totally open to vote switch back onto Muso to make this mislynch happen. Don't tell me what has or has not changed in my mind. You have no idea what kind of shit goes on in here. My mind changes between the time it takes to hit "enter" and the screen to refresh after I've posted. I may have mentioned that it takes me an eternity to read, analyze, and write up posts before. If I haven't, let this be the post that I can point back to in future games and say, "Yes, I have said that. It is at least part of how I play as town." The post you quoted probably took me at least 45 minutes to write. Over that time, I came to a few conclusions. When I say I talk myself in circles all the time, this is one example. I feel that the red numbering and skeptical manner in which I ask the questions indicate that I wasn't inclined to believe him. By the end of that 45 minutes, however, I had the time to think about it. As you bolded, I did see more potential scum motivation, but his explanation fit within the bounds of town reasoning. Sure, not typical TL reasoning, but from it I was ever-so-slightly leaning town on him. As for "leaving myself totally open to switch back onto Muso to make a mislynch happen", anyone who doesn't say that someone is 100% scum or town is open to switch on and off of them. Either way, that is where I stood. Your flavour theory is bunk and I am showing how bunk it is by saying that I am town. No, wait, I take it back, the lynch is close, haha lols totally swayed by it. Also don't mind how scummy I look, I always look scummy d1. ...sure. I implicitly state that I was lying in that post. If someone was swayed into thinking I was town because I wrote a fake name in bolded green text then that's something I won't apologize for. I really wouldn't expect that statement to sway anyone. I wanted to see if kush was really serious about his flavor theory. I know that that kind of analysis would lead to scum gaining more information than town, so I wanted to stop him from going much further (what better way for sk to get scum to shoot all the blues than to point out all the VTs in the thread and point scum in their direction?). That being said, I had reason to believe that he might have been on to something. My reason for switching off of Draz wasn't exclusively the flavor thing. It was his manner of posting at the time. As for me looking scummy D1: this game I was scummy enough to be shot D1, this post and this post speak to my wishi-washiness and adherence to my "feelings" while playing, particularly around the D1 lynch. Those are the main games that I think about when I consider my meta, probably because they're more recent than my newbie games and they're games against people that are more experienced than me, which always makes me edgy. Fuba follows this up with an out for the rest of the day until the lynch I don't even see how that's scummy. I told you a fact. If you want more information, I had a meeting at 5, it was 4:30, it takes about 10-15 minutes to walk there, I don't have the ID to access the internet in that location and would have to borrow a friend's, and it takes my laptop like 10 minutes to boot up because it's old and I don't take care of it. Believe me, I have plenty more "outs" I could have given myself, but instead I've at least tried to play as much as I could. Is it my best play? Absolutely not. Somehow I was better as a newbie than I have been in any of my other games. It could be my worst game, since there's no vig to shoot me. But it's still town me. and after that gives a town read on a player who is under a lot of pressure and could easily be a vig shot that night (me), if you assume that I am town this looks weird. While I think that I have been playing townie the most vocal players in this game disagree. I have a hard time seeing fuba having his own very different read when he jumped into this game late (see his first post) and had to leave well before lynch (see the last post I quoted). He also manages to give a very light town read on prp's play in the same place he gives me a by before jumping thread. I don't get how anyone did not see the scummyness in prp's play. As Marv said, in Your Clothes Give Them to Me, prp always seems scummy d1. Sorry I have a single thought independent of Acro. In almost all other matters I feel like I'm sheeping him, which is something I typically do with experienced players that I believe to be town (usually marv or hapa). I didn't find you scummy, so I didn't vote for you. You think that scum fuba was giving a town read on a townie so that when he flipped town he would look like a townie too? That would gain me nothing, and you know it. This entire point is irrelevant. Oh, and I gave a null read to prplhz. Next we get Fuba's return to thread: guys, I'm a newb, I'm bad, help me. Giving himself excuses and outs. This whole filter is scummy. After all this Fuba posts a whishy washy list in which everyone is called slightly town or he has a town read on, now though he agrees with Thrawn about Release. Remember when Fuba found Draz scummy enough to unvote Muso and vote draz? Yeah, neither does Fuba he hasn't managed to address his read on Draz again this cycle. Fuba is scum. Just stating facts, trying to get back into the game as soon as possible. I don't know how to just jump back into the game. I usually do it by asking a question, but then people later say, "After all of this discussion, this is all he had to say?!? A-ha! We've found ourselves some scum!" This time I decided to just ask what you guys wanted me to talk about. And sometimes excuses are legitimate. My friends needed a caster/streamer, and I was the only one available (it went awfully, btw). And the "wishy washy list" is a list of facts as I saw them. I had a town read on both you and Acro, but everyone's disagreeing about that so I went back and took another look (unfortunately inconclusive, but I can't do anything about that). And thrawn and kush were basically confirmed town, though it later occurred to me that there's a godfather and possibly an innocent sk, and also that I feel either of those roles could fit kush perfectly this game. And I didn't forget Draz. I asked him a question, and he returned to the thread while I was asleep. Not that actually pushing my scumreads is part of my meta either. I planned on doing that this game, but how do you pressure someone who's not here to respond to you? TL:DR False, false, and false (though the third point is consistent with my town meta).Fuba gives himself outs so that he doesn't have to post reads, unvotes Muso for the same reason he voted Muso and drops his scum read on Draz without any of his problems with Draz being addressed. Mkfuba is Scum and I will be voting for and pushing him today. Acro, since you are the only other active player I'd love your input (though I'm still not convinced that you are town). What you have is a case against town Fuba who has far less time on his hands than he was expecting, in a game where nothing has gone the way it has in the past. And while lynching me may not be a loss for town from a contribution standpoint, it's a wasted lynch, and I'll just be added to the list with Mattchew and Zealos. I have one question for you: As all of your experience with me is based around my first game of mafia ever, you have the unique perspective of having equally experienced my town AND scum games. Do I feel like I'm playing like I did in either of them? | ||
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