EPT/in
This will be my first game =D
Newbie Mini Mafia XXII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
/in This will be my first game =D | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 26 2012 12:37 Blazinghand wrote: Golbat, I seem to recognize your name from somewhere (besides obviously being a pokemon) here on the forums. Do you post much in the Terran Help Me Thread? Also, make sure to check out the guides here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315#4 they'll make you 900% happier I've never posted in the Terran Help Me Thread, because I play protoss, but I do post in IdrA's fanclub pretty often. Probably there, or you might have read one of my godawful blogs. Currently reading through the guides. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 26 2012 13:11 DarthPunk wrote: I think it does, I hope I don't suck at this as badly as I suck at SC2 lol. GLHF everybody!! <3 <3 <3 GLHF <3 | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
As far as the game goes, Mordanis' post about Keir's post where he was "virtually claiming town RB" seems to be a pretty scummy thing to do. It didn't seem to me to be a secret claim of any sort, just a rules clarification. Even if it was a super-secret claim that he could use later, I wouldn't believe him if that was the only evidence he had. From what I've read elsewhere, that type of posting is classic scum behavior. Look like you're helping the town and trying to hunt scum, when in reality you're just blowing a townie's mistakes clear out of proportion to sow confusion and doubt. Not everyone has posted, so I don't yet want to commit to a vote, but I've got my eye on you Mordanis. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
Also, there's not so many people playing that we can afford to kill people off just because they aren't contributing enough. I mean, if you don't post at least once per day, you get modkilled anyways, so it's not lurkers we should watch out for, it's multiple contentless posts (i'm looking at you MrMedic). | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 11:31 Golbat wrote: I think that lynching a lurker day one is only a good idea if we have no reads on people who might be scum. As far as that goes for me, I already have an idea of who might be scum, so I won't get behind lynching a lurker today. Also, there's not so many people playing that we can afford to kill people off just because they aren't contributing enough. I mean, if you don't post at least once per day, you get modkilled anyways, so it's not lurkers we should watch out for, it's multiple contentless posts (i'm looking at you MrMedic). EBWOP: Also, there's not so many people playing that we can afford to kill people off just because they aren't posting enough. I mean, if you don't post at least once per day, you get modkilled anyways, so it's not lurkers we should watch out for, it's multiple contentless posts (i'm looking at you MrMedic). | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
I'm not sure if you understood my post, but I probably wasn't all that clear. What I meant was, if we have no solid reads on who might be scum, then we can lynch a lurker. But, if we do have a good idea of who might be scum, we have to prioritize investigating/lynching them over taking the easy lynch of a lurker. Basically I think that policy lynching lurkers before considering people who are even the least bit scummy is a bad play. On the flip side, policy lynching liars is not a bad play, because the only reason to lie is because you're scum (apart from potentially claiming VT when actually a blue role, I think). | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 12:53 Mordanis wrote: The reason I am talking about blues is because Keir seems to be trying to make people who are looking for blues beeline to him, but his play doesn't resonate with that of a true blue. If he's green, then he's trying to secretly manipulate the scum (trying to secretly "dig a yard under to make your enemy hoist to his own petard" is very dangerous), potentially harming town as a whole. The alternative is that he's red and trying to force the real blues to claim, and possibly being able to get out of a lynch by claiming Town RB. I have no idea which is more likely, but I think he is more likely scum than anyone else at this moment. That said, I need to eat and then read through more carefully before I can go any further. You are REALLY fixated on asserting that Keir is trying to make others think he is. It seems to be that a lot of us disagree with you. For the life of me I can't understand why you're trying to get him lynched for attempting to teach whoever the Town RB is (if there even is one) how to play the role. It's an important thing to know, and might have prevented the Town RB from accidentally blocking the cop from using his power on one of the most important night phases of the game. This IS a newbie mafia after all, would you be doing the same thing if he told the vigilante not to shoot someone on night one? | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
##Vote Mordanis If you're red, try to be less obvious next time. If you're green, try to be less scummy next time. I certainly hope you're not a blue. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 14:03 Shady Sands wrote: As if my last post didn't make it clear already: ##Vote Mordanis Where is Ange777? If he doesn't show up prior to the vote tally I may consider changing my vote to him. If he doesn't show up, he'll be modkilled anyways, so it doesn't really matter. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
I think MrMedic may be scum, and is "reluctant to make a big first post" because he doesn't know how to post without being scummy. It's a legitimate concern, and if I had rolled scum in my first game, I might be in much the same state of mind. That being said, he might also be town, and reluctant to make a big post because he doesn't want to look scummy. I can understand that as well, and that was my concern before I actually got stuck into the discussion. Basically what my point is is that he either is or is not scum (lol), and that i'm going to be reading his posts very carefully until further notice. Keir seems to me to be town. He gave some good advice for our (potential) roleblocker where scum might have done the opposite and given intentionally bad advice while appearing to have good intentions. However, beyond that first bit of advice, he hasn't contributed anything to the scumhunt. He hasn't even called out his accuser as being scummy at all. It is possible that, knowing that they are both mafia, Mord made a really bad case against him so that the town would rally to his defense, thus keeping suspicion away from him, while also making Mord seem like a townie who had simply jumped at the first thing he saw that was a bit off. I hope he isn't scum, but I won't rule it out just yet. Pretty sure Mord is scum. I did vote for him after all. But, there is always the chance he was just a very eager townie. The only thing about him being town that rubs me the wrong way is how emphatically he decided to stay with his line of reasoning, despite the fact that it had been slapped down by multiple people. Very suspicious. Perhaps I myself jumped the gun in voting for him, but being one to not throw around votes lightly, i'm keeping my vote on him unless there is completely overwhelming evidence that he is either not scum, or that someone else is scummier. I really like the OMGUS! vote though, <3. DarthPunk seems like a pretty straight-forward townie to me. He picked apart Mord's case against Keir, and hasn't said one thing yet that doesn't seem pro-town. I agree with almost all of the things he says, and look forward to winning with him after we lynch the final mafia. Promethelax Hasn't said much of substance, but that can be excused due to not being able to post. He said he'd be here to watch GSL, so he's probably going to post very soon. I have no idea about his alignment, other than that he claimed to be town. aRyuujin Has said nothing of substance, and hasn't given a reason for his lack of content. Seems to be a lurker, and if he doesn't speak up with something useful by the day2 deadline, he's certainly one of the people I have my sights on. goodkarma has given a legitimate reason not to vote Mord, and I can respect that. Going for the policy lynch on a lurker I can respect too, but I think that we should lynch someone who feels scummy before someone who feels asleep on their keyboard. alan133 has one good post, and nothing else of substance. But being from Malaysia I can understand not being synched up with the rest of us. I'll have to read his posts when I wake up tomorrow. Zorkmid seemed to be active before the ball truly got rolling, and then ceased to post after it did. Being canadian, he's probably asleep, and as such I'll have to wait to pass judgement on him as well. Shady Sands, aside from being a good writer, also seems to be town. He agrees with my assessment of Mord, and that is a good enough reason for me to avoid casting too much suspicion on him, but of course I can't completely trust anyone on day one. Obvious.660 is asleep Ange777 has said nothing since the game started. I hope to hear from him soon I'd like to hear other people's reads as well, this is going to be the only time I post a list of my reads on everyone, so as not to appear too spammy, even though I hope this clears me of any potential scum suspicion, seeing as i'm town as all get out. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:14 Keirathi wrote: So you call Mord out for OMGUS'ing you, but want me to OMGUS him? That's not what I said. I said that you didn't call him out at all, not that you didn't vote for him. I wouldn't expect you to vote for someone just because they voted for you. But saying "hey bro, cool your jets" at least would have been something. Until page 12 I'm pretty sure you didn't even respond to his accusations, but I might have missed a post. What Mord did was go "Oh so you're gonna vote for me? WELL I'M GONNA VOTE FOR YOU, TAKE THAT! Completely different. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:26 Keirathi wrote: @Goldbat: I responded to both of his posts regarding me with pretty strong dismissals for being a bad case. My apologies. I completely forgot about those two posts. Maybe i'm being too hasty with my accusing Mord of being scum from one bad read early in the game. It just seems really fishy that he stuck with it for so long. For the time being mord, I'm not convinced you're not scum, but i'm being convinced less and less that you are the more I think about it. So for the time being, ##unvote I just really want to win my first game, and I want to do it while playing well, which is what got me excited to get a slam-dunk mafia kill on day one. I know for a fact that i'm not scum, and that's all I really know at this point. Right now, besides Mord, I think that our best bet is to see who isn't contributing anything to the discusssion and then get rid of them. I admit that all of my reads so far could be wrong 100%. However, i don't think posting my day1 reads about all of the people is the same thing as making a town list, because I didn't even give an opinion on half of the people. I could also do without your "oh look at how good I am, you guys are bad" attitude. This is a newbie game, and calling people bad accomplishes nothing except potentially driving people away. P.S. I know I said "i'm not one to throw votes around yadda yadda yadda, but + Show Spoiler + That was me trying to be all internet tough | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:59 Mordanis wrote: + Show Spoiler [out of game] + About my attitude of being an arrogant asshole: I read the remnants of your first blog completely by chance, and didn't see the subsequent posts and such. I judged you prematurely, and for that I am deeply sorry. Really, I am deeply ashamed about that, and I hope you will forgive me. I won't overcompensate, all I can say is that I'll try to be as objective as possible. Again, I offer my sincerest apologies. After that though, I still stand by my opinion that posting town reads is a bad idea. If you are correct, one townie breathes easier, but the mafia see them as a better target (those bastards really hate confirmed town :C). If you put a mafia on your town list though, they know that a bandwagon is that much more difficult, and you've taken the pressure off. + Show Spoiler + I honestly expected more people to have read that stupid blog and judge me for it, and I don't really blame you. I can get really hotheaded and overconfident when I see a solution (or in this case, potential mafia), and begin trying to slam a square peg into the area between the circle hole and the triangle hole. I'm still not sure about your scum status, but at the same time, I want to explore all possibilities, and casting a vote before the halfway mark of the day is foolish anyways. If you're scum, it gives you time to shape up your posting, and if you're not, it gives scum time to run a train on you. Even while I was writing up my reads, I saw other people who could be scum just as easily as you. But now that I've been able to refocus, I really think I should give other people some space to talk, especially because half the town hasn't even really contributed, and that's never a good thing. I do want to state that whatever my read are in my previous post, they should not be taken as me being 100% certain of a person's innocence/guilt. DarthPunk and Shady could easily be scum too, but I think that before we come to conclusions, we have to look at the big picture, and that hasn't really been completely painted yet. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
Basically, I'm NOT scum, and anything scummy I have said or done so far can be explained by my inexperience. After reading Prom's post (especially the bit regarding self-imposed posting limits), I feel like it's time for me to take a break, especially after spewing so much bullshit and bad play all over the thread. See you in about 6-12 hours. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 27 2012 18:42 alan133 wrote: I have read and re-read the filters but couldn't find anything other than Mordanis' "meh" case on Kei and subsequent cases against Mordanis for that. I was kinda thrown off when Golbat decides to unvote Mordanis because he started off having high confidence that he is scum. His "I am a newbie post" also contributes to my suspicions on him. I quickly dismissed them because I still have my FOS on Mordanis and he did a case on Golbat too. Now that Ange777 has mentioned it, I would like to ask Golbat, what makes you think that Mordanis is not scum anymore? To me, his only "townie points" is that he is the first player who built a case, but that's about it. Is there some "obvious" reason that I missed? Every time I re-read Mordanis's posts I am more convinced that he is scum. The reason I backed off of Mord is because I felt like I may have been pushing too strongly against him based on his first bad read. I didn't want to appear to be scum myself, so I backed off for the moment. I still have a sneaking suspicion about him that he may be mafia, but I didn't want to lynch myself by pushing too hard on a bad read. I feel like i've been talking in circles around mord, "He's scum, no he's town, no he might be scum, no he's probably town", so I feel like I need to take a definite stance on the matter, and that is ##FoS Mordanis It's not the flat-out vote that it was before, but I still don't trust you. I've heard several times to trust my reads, and so this is my position. We'll see what happens between now and lynch time. + Show Spoiler + but for real now, I need to step away from the thread for a few hours | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
It looks like pretty much everyone else in the thread seems to think I'm scum. Well that's not good, because i'm not. You all seem to think that my incredibly poor play has something to do with me being scum, when that's not the case at all. I'm town. I'm very town, I'm just bad. I Honestly thought all of my posts were helpful when I posted them. I can see now why they aren't. I also think you can do better than lynching me. I propose instead that today we lynch someone who hasn't been a part of the conversation much, as it's entirely possible that the mafia has decided to sit back and let me and Mord go at it while the town analyzes itself to pieces. I feel that in that regard, Keir has been suspiciously quiet so far. Besides defending himself from Mord's suspicions early on, and this post, + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 15:32 Keirathi wrote: @goodkarma: I mostly agree with your assessment of Mordanis. I feel like it would be a really silly play for a mafia to try to pull this early. It *WAS* a suspiciously weak case though, but mostly I feel like it was a townie trying to find something to push rather than a scum trying to start a bandwagon. I'll be keeping my eye on him though, that's for sure. About your suspects: aRyuujin I don't really have much to comment about him. I feel like its too early to start qualifying people as lurkers. It is the middle of the night in US times, so I suspect a lot of people are sleeping. MrMedic In his longest post, he did have some good insight despite how hard the post was to follow. He noted how each point of the Mordanis case against me seemed to be trying to paint me dying in a good light. Would definitely like to hear more from him, hopefully in an easier to follow writing style next time though. Promethelax People have to work and sleep. I've played with Prom before, I have no doubt that he'll be active when he has time. People have to work and sleep, they can't be active 24 hours a day. That being said, Prom has been scum in most (all?) of his previous games, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on him  On July 27 2012 11:46 Keirathi wrote: @Goldbat: At the same time, you can't just give people a free ride for lurking. Like Mordanis pointed out + Show Spoiler + Mordanis wrote: Easiest way for scum to win is to have town all say "Yeah, Lurkers are a bad target, we'll always lynch our best read". Its a pretty common scum strategy to lurk while the active townies FOS all over each other, and eventually kill themselves. It's a balancing act of deciding if people are "lurking with intent" or just townies not posting much. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:59 Ange777 wrote: @Golbat: When I was asking for a case to show us that you are town I wasn't thinking of cases on semi-lurkers ... While you are right that lynching possible scum is always better than a mislynch on a townie, lynching a controversial player is most of the times preferable to lynching a lurker. There are several players including me who made cases on you and your death would just give so much more information right now than the death of Keir. How about instead of making cases on lurkers you start to address the questions we posted earlier regarding Mordanis and explain why you believe Mordanis to be less scummy than before? When unvoting you said: Basically, at the time I was thinking about why he would be so vocal about his case on Keir, and why he would pursue it for so long despite the fact he knew it was an awful case. It wasn't adding up, so I started thinking, "maybe he's scum, but he probably isn't scum, seeing as he thrust himself so far into the spotlight". But after having some time to think about his play, I had the idea that he may be the godfather. I mean, think about it. It's a pretty smart play if he is, he can make all sorts of accusations, and then play like he was just trying to "stimulate discussion". He'll come back clean on a cop check, so he could also use that to further cement himself as a townie, while getting the town to lynch each other all day every day. My own flip floppiness can be attributed to realizing that brazenly voting so early is a bad idea. When I pushed Mord, he pushed back, and I thought to myself, "oh shit, I should probably back down, voting this early does seem kinda scummy". I didn't really think that doing what I thought was the most pro-town thing would cause myself to be brought under such suspicion, because I thought I made it abundantly clear that I was still suspicious, but just not as concrete about it. I wanted to see how the rest of the people were thinking before I actually casted my vote. I could easily still vote for Mord, but he isn't the only suspicious one here. I also want to address my "list post". That was me trying to stimulate discussion on everyone's reads. I pm'd blazinghand to ask him some questions about how I was doing so far, and his response was that I should try to stimulate discussion. That was the purpose of my list. It was simply to give my reads on people at that point in the game, and then ask everyone else for their reads as well. It was not me making a "town list" or anything else. If you had actually read it, you would have noticed that I said that those were simply my reads at the time, and not a be-all end-all list of who is town and who is not. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 28 2012 06:44 aRyuujin wrote: No good townie would try for such a bad gambit that early day 1 But it makes me think Why would a mafioso Lie obviously? Perhaps it is just A newbie mistake by him and it was a slip Bur for real, after the stalling and saying we should not try to hunt scum until everyone else had posted, he still cast his vote in the post directly after mine. He also gave himself an out by saying he might change his vote to Ange777 if he doesn't post by lynch time, but that would result in a modkill anyways so I don't see the point in bringing it up. He should know better than that, and so I think he was just trying to give himself a way out that hopefully nobody would notice was bad anyways. That seems kind of off to me. | ||
|
Golbat
United States499 Posts
On July 28 2012 06:54 Keirathi wrote: + Show Spoiler + I had to sleep and go to work. I'm not really sure how that is "lurking". People have obligations outside the game, which I also mentioned (but you didn't quote that, of course, because it would make your case weaker). + Show Spoiler + Just reading through your filter so far, I feel like you are saying "Oh shit, I made a mistake. Now how can I fix it?" The problem wasn't voting Mordanis early. You voted him without giving a solid reason why, then as soon as someone called you out on it, you backed off with "Sorry, I'm an over-zealous noob." Being wrong doesn't make you scum, but not having conviction and flip-flopping that fast is certainly suspicious. + Show Spoiler + As far as "not contributing to the scumhunt", I'm not going to make bad cases just to put pressure on people. Like I also said, making cases is what keeps the game moving, but when they are just bad cases you give the scum ammunition to push their own agendas. | ||
| ||
