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soldiuM
14 Posts
I'm a platinium Terran on the EU server. I just played this game, the opponent baneling busts me over and over, I manage to hold it a few times, but at the end I just dont have enough to defend. The game lasted 18 minutes though. How am I supposed to defend this kind of play? Here is the replay: http://drop.sc/169523 Thanks | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
Your main mistake here is siege tank : Late siege, late tank and you only produced one. From a zerg pov, as soon as a T get 2-3 well positioned siege tank, any baneling bust is pretty much impossible | ||
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ZooMForYou
Singapore56 Posts
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SwitchAUS
Australia106 Posts
1) A good solid wall - being forced to use banelings on the wall and not bunkers really takes the sting out of the bust 2) REALLY fast siege tanks, or alot of hellions - ie if youre going reactor hellion and scout a really early baneling nest, either stop after 2 and get siege tech ASAP, or just produce hellions non-stop (hellions are obviously the more micro-intensive option) 3) Fast banshees after hellions - if you're going for that hellion/banshee super fast 3 base build, you're going to have alot of hellions, which as I mentioned are super helpful, and obviously the banshees can be used to snipe banelings before they hit anything. Again, super micro intensive, basically baneling busts are alot more difficult to defend than they are to execute, but if it doesn't kill you, you're going to win. | ||
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Zedoych
Canada57 Posts
Dragon makes it look ezpz. | ||
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yoona2012
Denmark196 Posts
On April 30 2012 21:51 soldiuM wrote: Hello, I'm a platinium Terran on the EU server. I just played this game, the opponent baneling busts me over and over, I manage to hold it a few times, but at the end I just dont have enough to defend. The game lasted 18 minutes though. How am I supposed to defend this kind of play? Here is the replay: http://drop.sc/169523 Thanks First and most crucial mistake is your lack of scouting. Fine you do the initial scv scout and then you just sit in the dark till the banes hit you. You should sneak your scv for 2nd round of scouting, poke with some marines or do a scan - if you play blindly like this you have to get siege alot faster and this isn´t really optimal, since you actually want medivacs faster with your build so you have some drop agression. 2nd mistake, I do like you make depots in front of your bunker but you made a small hole in the depot wall infront of the bunker rendering the whole idea worthless, you should have cancelled the depot that was built 1 hex too far away and repositioned it for a measly 25 minerals. 3rd try to claim at least the closest xel naga tower with a marine or scv, sure it will usually die, but often you´ll see the number of lings coming at it which gives you a reasonable chance to guess if its a fast 3rd or early agression. If you cant take a watch tower or see more than a few lings, scout if the 3rd is up, if the natural is heavily saturated, how many lings or roaches he has when your scout died etc. 4th When your depot wall got busted, you responded quite fast trying to rebuild. Props for fast reaction, bad that you reacted with the wrong kind of reaction. At this stage you´d been better off loading scvs into your medivacs, float your cc to you main immediately, put down 3 bunkers and get siege up. From there you could either make a 3rd cc in your main and try sneak a coupple of dropships out when the tank and siege was done. PS. dont bunker in the wall, but rather behind it (as you tried to in your rebuild) since banelings will splash to both bunkers and depots even if you get it up. If you make depots in front of it, then the splash wont hit the bunker till the first depot is down. __________________ Now say that you did scout or had strong indications of a baneling bust. What you do from here is place down bunkers so you have a total of 3-5 and none of them connected. Pull workers out of gas and halt scv production if you must to afford it. If the baneling bust is very early, then lift and relocate your natural to your main and try to crank out a couple of marauders on hold position in front of your ramp wall so the banelings will bust those first. If you no time get bunkers finished, then split your marines in a concave behind what wall you have, so you can focus fire the incoming banelings and still split enough to not get all your marines wasted because early on, the number of followup lings wont be higher than you can fight it off with the remaining marines and scvs and rebuild your rampwall. All in all, the best thing you can do is practice being busted alot more times. It´s an easy win for platinum and diamond zergs, so you´ll encounter it all in various forms of high eco bust, early low eco bust and 8 minute roach ling bane bust or in your case 8 minute bane mass ling bust. PS for emergency walling - use ebays rather than depots or bunkers, they can take alot more banes, blocks more space and still cheaper than a barracks or factory. If you have time, you can wall with the raxes you have if they are in reasonable distance. | ||
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
On May 02 2012 10:17 Zedoych wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie_DC96RPR0&feature=g-u-u Dragon makes it look ezpz. From dragon's stream, we can tell that 1) a solid barracks wall (that takes about 11 banes to break) 2) two to three bunkers right behind the wall so your marines lasts for longer 3) decent split of marines ( does not have to be sick MKP moving split, just pre-split before the banes hit 4) sick macro (you have to have enough units to defend) | ||
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yoona2012
Denmark196 Posts
The only real thing to take from dragons video is that he KNEW there was a banebust incoming and was amply prepared for it. The OP´s real problem is not how to prepare for a banebust, it´s that he never scouted it. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
You did some of what I suggest, however your walloff was not very optimal and used too many depots inefficiently. Still, you have to recognize that the zerg is down on workers even after killing 15 of yours, so all you have to do is continue to defend efficiently and you will have an advantage. Your reactors on the raxes were late, which meant that your marine production was too low, also. On metalopolis and maps like it I would always recommend reactor hellion expand, because the natural is so difficult to secure otherwise. | ||
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
On May 02 2012 10:49 yoona2012 wrote: Why do you guys insist on dragons video to be a tutorial to defend bane bust - the video shows at banebust that hit at 12 minute mark by a zerg that just commits blindly without even sending a scouting ling in first to see what hes trying to bust. The only real thing to take from dragons video is that he KNEW there was a banebust incoming and was amply prepared for it. The OP´s real problem is not how to prepare for a banebust, it´s that he never scouted it. I mean, cmon, if you don't scout it, you cannot defend it at all. I think the OP does not see it coming the first time, but he tried to prepare for the next couple of them and failed. I think my suggestions based on the video is correct. Because you do need a bunker BEHIND the wall instead of on the wall. | ||
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yoona2012
Denmark196 Posts
On May 02 2012 11:11 lhr0909 wrote: I mean, cmon, if you don't scout it, you cannot defend it at all. I think the OP does not see it coming the first time, but he tried to prepare for the next couple of them and failed. I think my suggestions based on the video is correct. Because you do need a bunker BEHIND the wall instead of on the wall. Did you even watch the video? OP did make depots in front of his bunker - he just misplaced 1 of the depots leaving a hole - it was only during his rebuild fase he tried to emergency wall with a bunker in the actual wall - but that never happened as mass ling shut down all the scvs trying to rebuild. And no, a video of a zerg that blindly goes to bust at 12 minute mark is not a good example of a normal banebust which usually happens between 6-8 minute mark before tanks and siege usually are out. | ||
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xTrim
472 Posts
On May 02 2012 10:17 Zedoych wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie_DC96RPR0&feature=g-u-u Dragon makes it look ezpz. epic... though reactor hellion openings (6 hellions) soft counters big baneling busts, because u can really really REALLY soften the lings, not allowing for a good mass of banes to morph and then his attack will be ridiculously weaker going gasless FE vs zerg in metalopolis severely hinders your ability to defend vs a strong bane bust... the choke in natural is inexistent, therefore you need somewhat of an army instead of a wall to defend this.. or have hellions on front his ramp holding zerg back... if you dont wanna go hellinos in this map, either get REALLY defensive (rushing siege tanks) and pushing really strong later, or get aggressive with some banshee build to pin him... but i really think hellions are the best alternative to be honest... in metalopolis, 1 rax FE i believe is a build order loss vs a 2 base bane bust unless you rush siege tanks which therefore cannot contain zerg to get a really greedy third... conclusion: go reactor hellion expand in metalopolis vs zerg... safer, strong, and since natural is wide zergs cant really get away with a single spine as they would in other maps | ||
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yoona2012
Denmark196 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:45 xTrim wrote: though reactor hellion openings (6 hellions) soft counters big baneling busts, because u can really really REALLY soften the lings, not allowing for a good mass of banes to morph and then his attack will be ridiculously weaker going gasless FE vs zerg in metalopolis severely hinders your ability to defend vs a strong bane bust... the choke in natural is inexistent, therefore you need somewhat of an army instead of a wall to defend this.. or have hellions on front his ramp holding zerg back... if you dont wanna go hellinos in this map, either get REALLY defensive (rushing siege tanks) and pushing really strong later, or get aggressive with some banshee build to pin him... but i really think hellions are the best alternative to be honest... in metalopolis, 1 rax FE i believe is a build order loss vs a 2 base bane bust unless you rush siege tanks which therefore cannot contain zerg to get a really greedy third... conclusion: go reactor hellion expand in metalopolis vs zerg... safer, strong, and since natural is wide zergs cant really get away with a single spine as they would in other maps I´ve seen both bomber and mkp do 1 rax expand metalopolis and rush for stim drop rather than hellions because metalopolis is good for drops and its perfectly viable to hold a 2 base banebust if you just scout consistantly within the first 8 minutes. | ||
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